Author Topic: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Rebuilt to NEW OLD STOCK -- PIX ON PAGE 50  (Read 237025 times)

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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #825 on: February 15, 2015, 02:25:26 pm »
Final drive done, now on to the part that worries me, driving the last counter shaft bearing into the crankcase. Any suggestions? I was planning on using a heat gun then tapping it in since I don't have any specialty  bearing tools..

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #826 on: February 15, 2015, 02:26:14 pm »
Dammit the page turned, still need input on this one

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126735.msg1651328#msg1651328

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #827 on: February 15, 2015, 04:18:18 pm »
Not that the teeth are bad on the ones on the left but the ones on the right have pristine looking teeth on them (more square and no rounding on the edges).
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

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Offline MCRider

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #828 on: February 15, 2015, 04:28:46 pm »
Hey Ron, the bike only "ran when parked" so I never rode it to see how things were. When I tore it down, I posted up close up shots of the dogs and shift forks. Couple members expressed concern over the state of the dogs for the C2-C5 combo and also the shift forks. So I purchased the "like new" ones pictured above to avoid having issues, along with a set of "like new" shifter forks to go with them. But now that I have them side by side, I only see the old shift forks being a little too worn, but the dogs look damn near identical. Again, to my untrained eye. So I was pondering what to do with the old one, especially if its no better than the replacement....
I see. All I can say is be sure to use good shift forks. A bent fork will have an arc of wear following the arc in the fork. And/or the pads at the ends of each tine will show wear.

If the gears look the same, flip a coin, assuming both are good. I'm not qualified to say.
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"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #829 on: February 15, 2015, 06:23:31 pm »
Thanks Ron! I'll wait for Terry or Mark to swing by and have a look as well. If I can, I want to save the clean set for my next 750.

In the mean time, these guys cleaned up well. How do they look? One concern I have is that half the rocker arm adjusting nuts are stuck, almost welded together. Will have to deal with that soon. I dropped some mineral spirits in all the oil passages to break loose the gelled up oil, then compressed air after final rinse. Some wear on the journals but doesn't look too bad does it?

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #830 on: February 15, 2015, 06:24:07 pm »
1-2

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #831 on: February 15, 2015, 06:28:45 pm »
Dang, Rafi...very nice cleaning job!  Looks brand new.
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

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Offline MCRider

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #832 on: February 15, 2015, 06:34:29 pm »
YHeah looks good. Have you looked at the contact points of the tappets themselves? Often worn in a line or pitted. This will make adjusting them difficult. Cheap to replace.

Just get medieval with those nuts. They may be candidates for replacement too.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #833 on: February 15, 2015, 07:19:04 pm »
Thanks Ron and Ron. The contact points are pretty smooth without any visible pitting from what I can tell. Feel pretty smooth too. I'll try the caveman approach on the nuts sometime this week, chances are I'll be home for another day if its too cold to work  :( :(

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #834 on: February 15, 2015, 07:45:18 pm »
Like Ron said...that's how it happens.
Another thing that causes it is when the bike falls over on the shifter side and it gets pulled hard UP while running: this often bends the fork, too. This is often the "parking lot accident" scenario, after which the [usually new] owner shows up at the shop with this shifting problem.
 :(

Your old gears look a little worn, but I am curious about the rusty-looking spots on their inner bearings. Is that really rust? Otherwise, they could be made perfectly serviceable again with APE's help on their dogs (and holes). Mismatched oil holes on the gears are not usually an issue of concern, but mismatched holes on the shafts definitely are. In general, if the gear has inner teeth to the shaft and the shaft has a hole, the gear (and position on the splines) must be made to match. This is general Japanese gearbox design for this era of engines, all brands: sometimes I think a "hidden" vendor in Japan made all of them for the Big Three bikes in those days?

There is a dividing line on the inner bearings, too. Along about the New Factory K3, the inner bushings on many of the gears switched from Oilite dimpled Bronze 841 to cast iron composite (by the "F" bikes only the F0 early ones had bronze at all). This lost power (and life) overall, but was about 10% as expensive, hence the switch. If you have the option in any of them to use the bronze types, go for it. It pays back in top-end power on the road.
;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #835 on: February 16, 2015, 09:06:23 am »
Drats! Oh well, I guess the old ones will be saved for a later project with a back cut trans. Thanks for reviewing Mark! I did follow the step by step in your book, found points I wouldn't even have dreamed of before assembling (flat vs rounded edges on spaces  :o). This trans has all bronze inner bushings that look good without any scoring or gouging. Also, those rust looking marks are rust, but not on the gear, I had accidentally set it on a rag I was using to clean up a few other pieces I'd just pulled out of my derusting tank, wiped right off. The old gears are pretty clean. I didn't go for blasting off the parkerizing after a thread I had asking about it somewhere, otherwise all of the old ones would have shined up like the new ones above. Once I put the counter shaft back together, the entire trans will be left soaking in oil till assembly.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #836 on: February 19, 2015, 03:15:39 pm »
GrrraahhHH  >:( >:( >:( >:(!

I figured out the damn problem. I've been looking at the wrong damned gears all this time. My C5 is definitely toast (pix 1 & 2), which is why bought the replacements. Only the replacement isn't a C5  :o :o. So no wonder I kept thinking why replace it when it looks just as good.

Pic 3 shows C5, C2, C3, C4, C1 and Transfer gears as they go on (I think the order is right  :-\). Time to page Bill Benton  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 03:27:48 pm by edwardmorris »

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #837 on: February 20, 2015, 10:03:49 am »
All sorted, correct sets should be on their way soon, thanks to Bill!

Lesson Learned: When you find really awesome stuff, CHECK IT RIGHT AWAY and don't stash it away like a crazy squirrel!

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #838 on: February 24, 2015, 10:30:46 pm »
Correct gears arrived last night, isn't Bill the best  8) 8)

Started putting them together and I notice that after the circlips are installed in place, the C2 rotates freely and has some side to side play (very small) while the C3 sits sung with no play and doesn't spin as freely with the circlip in place (spins freely without it, so I know its not the shaft, I smoothed the tapers on that). Is this normal?

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #839 on: February 25, 2015, 01:33:31 pm »
Correct gears arrived last night, isn't Bill the best  8) 8)

Started putting them together and I notice that after the circlips are installed in place, the C2 rotates freely and has some side to side play (very small) while the C3 sits sung with no play and doesn't spin as freely with the circlip in place (spins freely without it, so I know its not the shaft, I smoothed the tapers on that). Is this normal?

If by chance you have some mics...just check the thickness of the new gear against the old one. It may well be you'll find it about .002" thicker, which was a wear-in Parkerizing coat that was intended to polish itself with the mating part(s) when all were new.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #840 on: February 25, 2015, 01:46:22 pm »
Correct gears arrived last night, isn't Bill the best  8) 8)

Started putting them together and I notice that after the circlips are installed in place, the C2 rotates freely and has some side to side play (very small) while the C3 sits sung with no play and doesn't spin as freely with the circlip in place (spins freely without it, so I know its not the shaft, I smoothed the tapers on that). Is this normal?

If by chance you have some mics...just check the thickness of the new gear against the old one. It may well be you'll find it about .002" thicker, which was a wear-in Parkerizing coat that was intended to polish itself with the mating part(s) when all were new.

Thanks, don't have mic, but will try with the vernier tonight. Maybe I need better spacers/circlips?

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #841 on: February 25, 2015, 09:29:47 pm »
So I tried them both on, old and new there is absolutely no difference. I even switched out the spacers and circlips to see if it made a difference, but nope, they both have that tiny little bit of side to side play. Maybe I'm overthinking this? It doesn't seem to be THAT much and the dog engagement looks pretty good, especially on the new ones.

I tried the newer C4, C1s and the old ones I have, really not seeing or feeling any difference with induced shifting/engagement tests, so the newer ones will be going back to Bill. The C2, C5 on the other hand, difference is night and day. Old ones are definite candidates for back cutting. For now, calling this done, last big thing is to get that bearing installed into the crankcase, then trans will be done.

Scrambling to get everything for the engine ready, just in case Cal actually makes his round trip  :P :P

Offline oldhatt45

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #842 on: February 26, 2015, 06:15:38 pm »
Ed,

I read the "How do you polish stuff" thread and saw your post and the polishing results.
Looks really good!!!!!
I also noticed your Clutch and Brake levers.
If you haven't done anything yet, take a look at these Rubber end caps. 
I bought a pair and they are perfect.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361187108093?item=361187108093&viewitem=&vxp=mtr
And really cheap too.  :)

Charlie

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #843 on: February 26, 2015, 07:12:01 pm »
Ed,

I read the "How do you polish stuff" thread and saw your post and the polishing results.
Looks really good!!!!!
I also noticed your Clutch and Brake levers.
If you haven't done anything yet, take a look at these Rubber end caps. 
I bought a pair and they are perfect.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361187108093?item=361187108093&viewitem=&vxp=mtr
And really cheap too.  :)

Charlie
Thanks for the kind words on the polishing.

I can't remember, was it you that asked about it and I posted that same link in a thread somewhere? Anyhu, I don't like those, so yet another restoration sin, I'm skipping those  ;D ;D

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #844 on: March 07, 2015, 01:47:24 pm »
Carbies are getting all new brass, needles were here, rest of the brass is en-route.

Made a wood dowel to press/tap the old ones out. Cleaned with acetone on q-tip, then pressed new ones in. Slightly concerned with the new ones as #1 and #4 seem to be a bit loose and are pressing out just by a finger push. Pausing further assembly until I'm certain that its all good

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=145747

DH

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #845 on: March 07, 2015, 11:49:06 pm »
Ed, the 750 carbs emulsion tubes thread into the carb body until they bottom out against the needle jet, so they will hold a slightly loose jet in place., Also, the needle jet limits how far the emulsion tube can be threaded into the carb body. Once the emulsion tube is fully seated against the needle jet, it will still look as if it needs to go in farther, like there's extra thread left exposed.
This is normal, and when you've reached that point, SNUG the tube and call it good. DO NOT try to thread the tubes in any farther, or you will damage (bend) the emulsion tubes.

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #846 on: March 08, 2015, 05:32:49 am »
+1, and crack or break the carb body!  Ouch! Bill
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #847 on: March 08, 2015, 09:49:19 pm »
Thanks DH, big duhh moment for me, Bill and I had the conversation going in the background and he reminded me of the emulsions too. They're pretty snug without wobble so I'm good, just waiting on rest of the brass to arrive to finish these up. Did get a little further and installed the choke slides and linkage parts on each of them.

Offline Davez134

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #848 on: March 08, 2015, 09:55:04 pm »
Deja-vu to a few weeks ago. Hate these carbs haha

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- SLOW ASSEMBLY
« Reply #849 on: March 12, 2015, 09:04:17 pm »
The brass, rubber and aluminum is all here. Was just about to get it back together, then got stuck here

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,145870.0.html

« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 11:19:24 pm by edwardmorris »