Author Topic: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Rebuilt to NEW OLD STOCK -- PIX ON PAGE 50  (Read 241206 times)

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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #525 on: May 27, 2014, 07:49:18 PM »
I hate to say it, but given the extent of diligence you've invested, this needs to be redone. You'll forever kick yourself if it's not right.
Indeed. Realization has sunk in, time to get back to the grind, overtime and all without bitc$ing. Will get it powder coated properly in a few weeks. Clearly, painting is something I can't do regardless of the product..

Offline Blackfin5

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #526 on: May 27, 2014, 09:07:06 PM »
I just learned a lot from this thread - like the lower shock bushings like to be removed to the inside because they have a taper.  Crap.  A couple days ago I pressed in NOS bushings from the outside of my new CMR 550 swingarm toward the inside.  Shocks mounted up and they seem secure.

So do the bushings themselves have the taper or is it the swingarm fittings? Or both?  Neither my buddies or my shop was aware of the taper.

Is it a big deal I pressed them in from the outside?

Offline calj737

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #527 on: May 28, 2014, 02:07:51 AM »
Blackfin - you gotta buy Hondaman's book: it's filled with so many of these little tid-bits  ;) you'll be fine if it's been installed, it'll stay. Simply makes it easier to remove and install from the inside. I believe the taper occurs on the factory bushings.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #528 on: May 28, 2014, 10:14:35 AM »
You can't go wrong with powdecoating, assuming you prep the non-coated surfaces.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline MCRider

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #529 on: May 28, 2014, 10:21:25 AM »
I hate to say it, but given the extent of diligence you've invested, this needs to be redone. You'll forever kick yourself if it's not right.
Indeed. Realization has sunk in, time to get back to the grind, overtime and all without bitc$ing. Will get it powder coated properly in a few weeks. Clearly, painting is something I can't do regardless of the product..
Me neither. Some people can paint with a rattlecan like Michelangelo. Others, you and me, looks like bird poop. Don't feel bad I gave it up years ago.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #530 on: May 28, 2014, 10:23:21 AM »
I hate to say it, but given the extent of diligence you've invested, this needs to be redone. You'll forever kick yourself if it's not right.
Indeed. Realization has sunk in, time to get back to the grind, overtime and all without bitc$ing. Will get it powder coated properly in a few weeks. Clearly, painting is something I can't do regardless of the product..
Me neither. Some people can paint with a rattlecan like Michelangelo. Others, you and me, looks like bird poop. Don't feel bad I gave it up years ago.

I am hit and miss with rattle can. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline calj737

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #531 on: May 28, 2014, 10:50:51 AM »
The only thing I can hit with a rattle can is the wife from 21 feet. But I'm hell with a shotgun on a clay target!
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #532 on: May 28, 2014, 08:59:20 PM »
Thanks guys, I'm going to return the left over cans when I get the time. I found a company over in IL that does powder coating, hoping to get a quote soon, they want to look at the frame and the bits. In the mean time, I'll stick to getting the aluminum done, the valve train cover is eating away hours and hours and I still don't like how it looks.

What concerns me now, is that I still have the engine to paint, and if that turns out as bad, I'll be spending money yet again to get it blasted. Perhaps VHT paints are different, and hopefully better than Rustoleum. Any suggestions on how to approach that? I sure wish Nick/Tews19 would stop by and do it for me ;) He's the pro  8)

Offline 70CB750

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #533 on: May 29, 2014, 02:46:33 AM »


@prokop, thanks! the frame paint approach was due to inspiration from the K3F ;)

Only I would never touch stripper again, back in the shop we took paint off two Corvette bodies.  It took us a week and after 2 days I was  not sure if I was coming or going.  It was awful, got my sense of smell back in 10 days or so and decided never again I will deal with that sihte.  ;D

Glad it worked for you.
Prokop
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #534 on: May 29, 2014, 03:51:50 AM »
I think you must have gotten a bad batch of Rustoleum Rafi, I'd never seen the stuff before I found some cheap at my local hardware store a month ago, and I'm rapt with it, I did the alloy parts on my S&W shocks with Rustoleum gloss yellow enamel, and the battery box, engine brackets, lower triple tree and a few other parts with their gloss black enamel and it worked superbly.

It goes on very fine and covers really well, and appears to be living up to it's boast that one can lasts up to 2 cans of other brands. I'm sure you shook the hell out of your cans before you used them, so I won't insult your intelligence, and I'm guessing that the weather is warming up so that shouldn't be a problem, so all I can think is that the paint is either faulty, or past it's use-by date.

I installed new genuine Honda shock bushes a couple of weeks ago and measured them to make a tool to remove them, and they're definitely not tapered. It might be that the holes in the swingarm are slightly tapered, but the bushes aren't. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #535 on: May 29, 2014, 07:23:11 AM »


@prokop, thanks! the frame paint approach was due to inspiration from the K3F ;)

Only I would never touch stripper again,

I've heard that before!  ;D
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #536 on: May 29, 2014, 09:02:48 AM »
@prokop: Yes, I agree, nasty smelly stuff, burns right through nitrile gloves, had to double up and do it outside to prevent vapor accumulation. After the hell I went through stripping and wire wheeling the damned thing, there is no way I'm attempting it again. I know it won't be as close to stock as I want it but hey, powder coating will make it last another 40+, lets hope ;)

@Terry: Yes, initially I thought I'm not as good with it (probably still true) but I noticed that the primer cans were much better when it comes to uniform spray and I got that on there pretty evenly. The paint cans yes, I shook the living hell out of them, I tend to be very compulsive when following instructions but all three cans I tried were spitting after about 3-4 good initial sprays. Has to be bad paint, but oh well, for now I'll live with powder coating. The bushings, I'm going to press the new ones in with your "soft jaw" vice grip trick. The old one were stuck in there pretty bad, but I can clean out the holes in the swingarm thoroughly before pressing in the new ones.


Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #537 on: May 30, 2014, 05:09:57 AM »
Yeah mate, powder coating is great, just make sure that the frame is totally clean with no goop inside the frame that will drip out when it goes in the oven and gets hot.

And clean the swinger bush holes really well, and don't be afraid to wipe a little grease around the hole before you press the bushes in, you'd think it wouldn't matter, but it does make it a little easier. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #538 on: May 30, 2014, 08:12:16 AM »
Thanks Terry, the inside of the frame is gunk free and treated, so it should hold up well (see page 4 of this build thread). I read about that light grease on the swingarm holes here, was planning on doing it :)

A small set back today, lower back spazzed out and I've lost most of my mobility for the moment. Resting up for now, perhaps I'll manage to rebuild the starter solenoid as that doesn't require much physical anything ;) Once the muscle relaxers kick in, and a day or two off work, I'm hoping to be back on track asap. Thanks for following along fellas, and putting up with me, failures and all.

Offline calj737

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #539 on: May 30, 2014, 08:17:52 AM »
I know your pain. Also add ice as part of the therapy regimen. It does help to reduce the inflammation that the muscle relaxers won't address. I speak from deep experience on this.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #540 on: June 04, 2014, 09:35:48 AM »
Well, health is slowly improving, back to work but taking it easy as best as I can. Had the time to make a few calls to some local powder coat shops. Marc/Powderman has been an incredible help with this, invaluable guidance on pricing and workmanship. First shop was a bust, guy was primarily a blasting shop and was asking for two time of Marc's pricing guidelines. Found a second shop in the area that does work for a custom cycle shop, hoping to go talk to him soon. The biggest pain for the first guy seemed to be the front brake rotor. He said masking it will be a pain. What do you guys suggest? Should I just use caliper paint and match it with the caliper or have it coated?

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #541 on: June 14, 2014, 09:13:47 PM »
Been a while, a few things have moved along since. Frame and attached hardware is at the powder coat shop. The pesky speedo cable screw was stuck dead, thank heavens for left handed bits. Anyone have a spare one of these screws?

A nice sticker from our friends in England arrived today. I did my best to center it correctly but its a little off center, not so obvious though so I'm gonna leave it alone.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #542 on: June 14, 2014, 09:22:45 PM »
The hubs and sprocket carrier got all new SKFs double sealed bearings today, baked them to 240, froze the bearing overnight, gently tapped in place with spacers.

After the epic fiasco that was me trying my luck with spray paint, I decided to ask for help. Our very own Jerry H was kind enough to paint my gauge covers for me.

Will be ordering NOS rims and spokes tomorrow along with new gauge faces from Marcel/LeCram, hopefully keep things going all week.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #543 on: June 15, 2014, 09:07:20 PM »
Finished clear/blue chromate conversion today on most of the hardware, still need to do crankcase bolt set. Look great in natural light, but crappy in pix. First pic is after zic plating and polishing, second and third are after chromate conversion.

Offline Kickstart

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #544 on: June 16, 2014, 05:48:34 PM »
Looks good to me!

What plating kit are you using?

- Chris
75' CB750F Orange flake (rider)
75' CB750F Blue (Project)
75' CB750F Painted black (Project)
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Offline Tews19

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #545 on: June 16, 2014, 07:56:25 PM »
Hey Ed make sure to only look at total cost when you ride is complete!
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #546 on: June 16, 2014, 11:11:27 PM »
@Chris, no kit, just plated following Tom Gugliotta's gold standard recipe. I've been in touch with him for a while now, great guy. For the chromate conversion, most of the hardware is clear/blue chromate, but some parts like the center stand hardware and pillion foot pegs are all yellow chromated. There is a recipe for the yellow chromate which is cheaper than Caswell's kit. After months of searching, I dug out the oh so secret blue chromate recipe, only to find out that the reagents are too costly and the Caswell kit is cheaper. So, the clear/blue stuff I've done so far is basically Tom's plating recipe + Caswell's blue chromate kit. Hopefully next weekend, I'll mix up the yellow chromate recipe and finish all the hardware.

@Nick, I know, I'm too scared to run the tally so deep into this project. I will someday figure out what it cost me. Shipping parts around and failed attempts (such as paint) are doing damage, but otherwise, I've done as much as I could on my own. I'm hoping to get the frame back this week, and some rims too. Only thing I want now is for an expert at engine paint help me with the engine  (hint hint, its Tews19  ;D)

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #547 on: June 18, 2014, 09:28:36 AM »
OK, so a lot of people have asked me about the zinc plating and chromate conversion process, so I'm just going to leave this here.

For zinc plating at home, there is no substitue for Tom Gugliotta's write up with nice pictures

http://www.southsandia.com/forum/website/zincplating.html

want a CB750 part walkthrough? look at grepper's attempt here (although he still hasn't shared how he got the blue finish with me :()

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=119931.0

The only thing I did differently is the prep work before plating. I am not privy to a good sand blaster, so I spent a lot of time laboriously cleaning away gunk, followed by days of soaking in evaporust (for small parts) or slathering them in loctite's rust dissolver (larger parts), then wire wheel cleaning the larger parts and dremel wire wheel for small parts (yes, I'm very compulsive since I've cleaned and plated everything down to the smallest washers). After this cleaning regimen, I dipped all parts in the muriatic acid dip (see Tom's article) followed by a rinse in water, then a dip in denatured alcohol to get all the contaimnants and old zinc off.

Once all this is done, the next most critical step is getting the balance right with the power supply being used. This is a very long and boring process and will initially take some trial and error. After a few failed attempts, I eventually got it right and the general rule of thumb is that you need 0.1Amps per square inch your're plating. Use that as a guideline and decide how many parts you want in the electrolyte tank at a time.

The article demonstrates a fairly large size part, so the final step after plating, (which is to wire brush off the excess, then polish with steel wool) works really well. For smaller parts like bolts and nuts, I had to gently polish with a fresh steel wire wheel at the lowest RPM setting on my dremel. Do it too aggressively, all the zinc will brush right off, do it too gently, you won't get the shine, so again, boring and tedious but great once you get the hang of it.


Once you have all the parts nicely plated and shined up, you'll notice that Tom's article just mentions the chromate conversion process, but no amount of searching will yield you the article. Its because Tom never published it, and only provides a copy to those who personally request it. He does so with good reason, due to the toxicity of the reagents involved. Now before you go running scared $hitless, know that this is just a precaution to protect oneself from someone else's stupidity. Unless you are working with this stuff day and night and it is in constant contact with your skin, you'll probably be fine doing it at home. When I reached out to him, he responded and explained why he hasn't published it, then provided me with the basic safety routine (gloves all the time, goggles, don't drop stuff from a height etc. etc.) and sent me a copy.

That said, Tom's recipe for chromate conversion will yield the yellow iridicent finish, mostly found on center stand pivots, springs and other such items. Almost all the rest of the bike has parts that have the clear/blue chromate finish. Now this, was a real pain in the A$$. Proprietary garbage that no one will share and after months of googling, some random university experiment doc had the recipe for it. But, the reagents are too costly to mix this up on your own. That's why I didn't even bother with it and went with Caswell's pre mixed concentrate, which ended up being cheaper. The yellow chromate mix on the other hand, is cheaper to mix at home than buying Caswell's pre mixed concentrate. Not only that, Tom's chromate article has an excellent side by side comparison that shows that the DIY mix produces much better results than Caswell's.

Before you go asking me for Tom's chromate article, let me tell you I will not be able to share that per my agreement with Tom. You can reach out to him directly and he will gladly help you out, or there is always Caswell's mixes to fall back on. Chromate conversion is the final and easiest step, the real test of patience is the cleaning and plating process. I hope this helps out, good luck to who ever tries it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 12:25:34 PM by edwardmorris »

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #548 on: June 19, 2014, 07:14:39 PM »
The frame and attachments are back from the powder coating place, Paccar black 55% semi gloss looks really beautiful in person and daylight, the pix don't do it justice. However, the job is not without flaws. First and the most infuriating thing that had me literally screaming at the shop was the fact that they hideously drilled out the VIN plate, when I specifically told them not to do that. The owner tried to explain it away saying its common practice for all the Harleys they do day in day out, and suggested that I get a new one made. Is it just that simple? I'm still very upset. Another Harley headed mistake they made was to tape up the grab rail/rear fender mounts, and I can't for the life of me understand why. Their answer was we always tape those  :o It can't be touched up without redoing the whole frame apparently, so I'm stuck with finding satin black rattle can and painting it  >:( >:( >:( >:(

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #549 on: June 19, 2014, 07:16:51 PM »
Gotta admit, the smaller pieces look sweet. Shortened centerstand and elongated kickstand were the worst when it came to surface finish, blasting does wonders I guess...