Author Topic: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Rebuilt to NEW OLD STOCK -- PIX ON PAGE 50  (Read 254093 times)

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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #525 on: June 18, 2014, 09:28:36 AM »
OK, so a lot of people have asked me about the zinc plating and chromate conversion process, so I'm just going to leave this here.

For zinc plating at home, there is no substitue for Tom Gugliotta's write up with nice pictures

http://www.southsandia.com/forum/website/zincplating.html

want a CB750 part walkthrough? look at grepper's attempt here (although he still hasn't shared how he got the blue finish with me :()

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=119931.0

The only thing I did differently is the prep work before plating. I am not privy to a good sand blaster, so I spent a lot of time laboriously cleaning away gunk, followed by days of soaking in evaporust (for small parts) or slathering them in loctite's rust dissolver (larger parts), then wire wheel cleaning the larger parts and dremel wire wheel for small parts (yes, I'm very compulsive since I've cleaned and plated everything down to the smallest washers). After this cleaning regimen, I dipped all parts in the muriatic acid dip (see Tom's article) followed by a rinse in water, then a dip in denatured alcohol to get all the contaimnants and old zinc off.

Once all this is done, the next most critical step is getting the balance right with the power supply being used. This is a very long and boring process and will initially take some trial and error. After a few failed attempts, I eventually got it right and the general rule of thumb is that you need 0.1Amps per square inch your're plating. Use that as a guideline and decide how many parts you want in the electrolyte tank at a time.

The article demonstrates a fairly large size part, so the final step after plating, (which is to wire brush off the excess, then polish with steel wool) works really well. For smaller parts like bolts and nuts, I had to gently polish with a fresh steel wire wheel at the lowest RPM setting on my dremel. Do it too aggressively, all the zinc will brush right off, do it too gently, you won't get the shine, so again, boring and tedious but great once you get the hang of it.


Once you have all the parts nicely plated and shined up, you'll notice that Tom's article just mentions the chromate conversion process, but no amount of searching will yield you the article. Its because Tom never published it, and only provides a copy to those who personally request it. He does so with good reason, due to the toxicity of the reagents involved. Now before you go running scared $hitless, know that this is just a precaution to protect oneself from someone else's stupidity. Unless you are working with this stuff day and night and it is in constant contact with your skin, you'll probably be fine doing it at home. When I reached out to him, he responded and explained why he hasn't published it, then provided me with the basic safety routine (gloves all the time, goggles, don't drop stuff from a height etc. etc.) and sent me a copy.

That said, Tom's recipe for chromate conversion will yield the yellow iridicent finish, mostly found on center stand pivots, springs and other such items. Almost all the rest of the bike has parts that have the clear/blue chromate finish. Now this, was a real pain in the A$$. Proprietary garbage that no one will share and after months of googling, some random university experiment doc had the recipe for it. But, the reagents are too costly to mix this up on your own. That's why I didn't even bother with it and went with Caswell's pre mixed concentrate, which ended up being cheaper. The yellow chromate mix on the other hand, is cheaper to mix at home than buying Caswell's pre mixed concentrate. Not only that, Tom's chromate article has an excellent side by side comparison that shows that the DIY mix produces much better results than Caswell's.

Before you go asking me for Tom's chromate article, let me tell you I will not be able to share that per my agreement with Tom. You can reach out to him directly and he will gladly help you out, or there is always Caswell's mixes to fall back on. Chromate conversion is the final and easiest step, the real test of patience is the cleaning and plating process. I hope this helps out, good luck to who ever tries it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 12:25:34 PM by edwardmorris »

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #526 on: June 19, 2014, 07:14:39 PM »
The frame and attachments are back from the powder coating place, Paccar black 55% semi gloss looks really beautiful in person and daylight, the pix don't do it justice. However, the job is not without flaws. First and the most infuriating thing that had me literally screaming at the shop was the fact that they hideously drilled out the VIN plate, when I specifically told them not to do that. The owner tried to explain it away saying its common practice for all the Harleys they do day in day out, and suggested that I get a new one made. Is it just that simple? I'm still very upset. Another Harley headed mistake they made was to tape up the grab rail/rear fender mounts, and I can't for the life of me understand why. Their answer was we always tape those  :o It can't be touched up without redoing the whole frame apparently, so I'm stuck with finding satin black rattle can and painting it  >:( >:( >:( >:(

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #527 on: June 19, 2014, 07:16:51 PM »
Gotta admit, the smaller pieces look sweet. Shortened centerstand and elongated kickstand were the worst when it came to surface finish, blasting does wonders I guess...

Offline Tews19

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #528 on: June 19, 2014, 07:25:34 PM »
They remove the rivets for the plate. You can replace those. Is your tag gone? If so that is ridiculous.
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #529 on: June 19, 2014, 07:40:57 PM »
Not quite gone, but it has taken a beating  :(

Offline Kickstart

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #530 on: June 19, 2014, 07:51:46 PM »
Argh... that sucks!

Had they just drilled out the rivets and carefully removed the plate you'd be golden (and that is the proffered way to do it).  Getting replacement drive rivets is easy.  I took mine off myself before taking it to the powder coater.

I think I read a post about someone making or buying a reproduction plate.... found it:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=116002

Or, maybe you could flatten out what's left of your plate and epoxy it to a thin piece of metal flashing, then rivet that back on the neck.

As for not painting the studs/threads where the shocks attach, I think you're OK there as you shocks will slide over that part.

Did you leave the lower bearing race on the triple tee?  It's hard to tell in the picture, but it looks that way.

Looks good though, even if it's frustrating.  I know how you feel.  When I dropped my frame parts off at the local powder coater I carefully went over what should be painted and what should be masked.  The guy I talked to seemed to be taking notes, but when I went to pick up the finished parts half the things I requested weren't done.  I also got a lot of the "that's the way we always do it".
- Chris
75' CB750F Orange flake (rider)
75' CB750F Blue (Project)
75' CB750F Painted black (Project)
No Reserve Racing #171 AHRMA

Offline MCRider

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #531 on: June 19, 2014, 07:52:34 PM »
Sorry about your VIN plate. Barbarians. Mine was damaged when removed but not that much. I used a 2" (I think) piece of PVC as a mold and tapped the plate over and over to restore its curve and remove wrinkles. A little heat may help too.

CAn't replace the missing metal. I think I have heard that the plate can be replaced with a reproduction. Don't know who or where.

Here's a thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=116002.0
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #532 on: June 19, 2014, 09:37:41 PM »
Thanks guys, that's exactly the thread my search brought up too,  and this seems a pretty close match, so will start looking into that tomorrow.



@Chris, its just a bad pic, I had everything removed a looong time ago



and yea, I just realized that the shocks will cover up the missed parts, but I'll touch those up with paint anyway before assembly. I found one other spot that needs it, the threads on that small built in bolt on the electrics plate that attaches to the battery box.

Another bummer tonight, I assembled the cheapo wheel balancing stand from Harbor Freight, only to find out the damned axel is bowed  >:( Minor setback I suppose, I can grab same size rod at menards and get it to work by the time the NOS rims arrive.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #533 on: June 20, 2014, 05:17:55 PM »
Picked up the rear hub from the shop today, had the brake shoe surface cut and trued. They dirtied it  up, but thankfully didn't put any scratches after I so meticulously sanded it down grit after grit.

Mixed up the yellow chromate dip and finished that up, not many parts are yellow/gold so went fairly quick. The solution was a bit aggressive, dipping more than 3-4 seconds was getting to be too much. Had to sacrifice some washers and bolts to get the "feel" for it, so that the larger pieces can be done right. The footpeg spring towards the right fell off my dipping hook into the tank, overexposure made it go steampunk on me  :o Oh well, its not going to be visible so I'm not bothering with a redo. The last pic is just in better lighting, the pivots (I had an extra) came out nice looking.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #534 on: June 20, 2014, 09:16:33 PM »
That looks great Raffi, you're really doing a brilliant job for a first time restore! I bought a new vin tag from a dude on eBay a couple of years ago, it was an excellent copy, and he did different tags for different years and countries too. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find him, and the tag was only a few bucks. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #535 on: June 20, 2014, 09:32:10 PM »
Thanks Terry! Zinc plating and sanding aluminum are the only two things that fit with my all work and little time pockets for fun schedule. Has taken weeks to finish and I hope it will be good for what my aim is with this build, ride it forever  ;D

I've got the VIN replacement process in motion. Aggipike here had a near perfect replacement with the VIN engraved via www.machineplates.com. I called them up today and sent them Aggipike's order info (which he so kindly shared with me) as a reference for making me a new one. Haven't heard back, probably won't until next week since its the weekend now. I've looked around on ebay and couple other places that make replacements, but won't stamp/engrave the VIN number. Good to know there are options though.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #536 on: June 23, 2014, 09:41:12 AM »
So the VIN plate attempt is a bust, heard back from machineplates, they do not make them for the vehicles from the 70s anymore. Back to square one, may have to go with ebay on this one and find someone who can stamp the VIN.


Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #538 on: June 23, 2014, 11:40:02 AM »
Give this a look

http://www.khneisser.ch/products/63/honda-1971-vin-plate
Thanks Dave, I contacted the same guys via ebay and they said they'd do the engraving for an extra $8.50, so I went ahead and ordered it. Lets see how it goes.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #539 on: June 24, 2014, 08:41:28 AM »
The Khneisser guys seem to be doing good work, they sent me a preview and asked for help with promoting their stuff. I recommended that they join these forums or better yet, become a sponsor. Just have to wait for it to get here now, but I'm glad this issue is done. On to more usual things, still sanding away at parts, and the NOS rims arrived yesterday. Will have to finish buffing up the hubs and get busy with the wheel lacing soon.

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #541 on: June 25, 2014, 10:41:26 AM »
They sent me a preview for the finished plate too, looks good  8) wonder how long it will take to get here.

Also, ran into a small issue last night, need some input from the lacing/truing experts http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138819.0

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #542 on: June 25, 2014, 01:12:58 PM »
They sent me a preview for the finished plate too, looks good  8) wonder how long it will take to get here.

Also, ran into a small issue last night, need some input from the lacing/truing experts http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138819.0

I wonder if they get the Honda "9" right.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #543 on: June 27, 2014, 04:29:38 AM »
Give this a look

http://www.khneisser.ch/products/63/honda-1971-vin-plate

Yep, those were the guys I bought my K2 plate from, their products are very high quality. Cheers, Terry. ;D (oh, and the special Honda "9" was only on the frame and engine, not the VIN plate) 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #544 on: June 27, 2014, 08:18:57 AM »
Give this a look

http://www.khneisser.ch/products/63/honda-1971-vin-plate

Yep, those were the guys I bought my K2 plate from, their products are very high quality. Cheers, Terry. ;D (oh, and the special Honda "9" was only on the frame and engine, not the VIN plate)

You're spot on about the 9, Terry. I just saw that on my frame last night. Good catch!
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #545 on: June 27, 2014, 10:22:51 AM »
Never enough time in life to do anything! Starting tomorrow, progress will be stalled badly due to work and personal commitments :( will be limited to little things I can do in very small time slots. I'm itching to finish this thing, especially now that the powder coated frame is staring at me every time I'm in the living room. Plan is to get the engine buttoned up so I can lower the frame on it and then do the rest, but still haven't gotten around to painting it. So, just wondering here, question for the experts:

Will powder coating the engine silver/aluminum stray too far away from the stock look? Also, heat concerns? I've read people suggesting not to coat due to overheating issues, then there are incredible race bikes in the hi-po forum with crankcases all coated wrinkle black  :-\

Which is it? Do or don't for PC the engine?

Offline oldhatt45

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #546 on: June 27, 2014, 06:38:48 PM »
Edward,
I'm not an expert by any means, but if you are going for a Stock Look, as I am with my restore, than I would likely Not PC the engine but Maybe the Valve Cover.  Our engines were designed 40 years ago, and I don't know what the design parameters were in terms of heat dissipation and actual running temperature.  I'm sure others will chime in and give you better information.
Charlie

Offline Powderman

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #547 on: June 27, 2014, 06:56:35 PM »
Powder coating anything on the engine will not cause over heating issues if down properly. I don't know of any powder that will match the look of the factory cast aluminum in color or sheen.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #548 on: June 28, 2014, 09:28:17 AM »
Thanks Marc, if the color can't be matched then there is no point. Sigh, it will just have to wait its time before I can paint and bake it next month....

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: 1972 CB750 Four K2 -- Project "Ice Cream"-- PAINT
« Reply #549 on: June 28, 2014, 03:09:23 PM »
The new VIN plate arrived today! Damn these guys are fast, and I got exactly what's in the pic above.

The new gauge faces arrived today as well, thinking about putting them back together soon. Should I reset the counters all to 00000 or leave them be? My title already says NOT ACTUAL on it despite my sincerest efforts to convince the grumpy old DMV lady at the time of purchase (something with their new system, modern bike titles have mileage printed on them as opposed to the 70s bike title that has the mileage filled in by hand). I'm tempted to reset them, but don't want needless work if there is nothing to gain.