Topic: Possible change of helmet law in British Columbia

[Ebrandon]

Personally I believe that if someone wants to ride without a helmet, it is natural selection in action. Let them. But now I am going to play devil's advocate...you guys have covered the slippery slope of Where will it end? very well when we talk about over policing, but what if we looked at the other argument... so we shouldn't be able to police people's lives, Does that mean no seat belt laws? What if I believe I shouldnt' have to restrain my child in a safety sear, hey that's my child no-one has the right to tell me how to raise it.

I know what the argument will be- it is different if you are only hurting yourself, but are you only hurting yourself? Ask any family that has lost someone because they choose not to protect themselves. How long do you think it will be before somone gets the bright idea to sue the state on behalf of a dead loved one because they didn't make them wear a helmet?

And if we swing in the direction of personal choice over too much policing- why should ANY drug be illegal- not hurting anyone but yourself, Suicide shouldn't be illegal, self-mutilation, why can't i walk down the street naked, there are any number of things that could be called into question.

Now before i get flamed, remember I am playing devil's advocate. One thing I truly don't understand though is how the US believes that at the age of 18 someone is mature enough to decided to enlist, possibly go to war and die, but not old enough to decide to drink alcohol...

[nickjtc]

Now before i get flamed, remember I am playing devil's advocate. One thing I truly don't understand though is how the US believes that at the age of 18 someone is mature enough to decided to enlist, possibly go to war and die, but not old enough to decide to drink alcohol...

.....that just about says it all for most of the civilised world!

If it was just a simple question of letting someone splat themselves all over the road by choosing to not wear a helmet, or letting them be ejected from their car in an accident because they didn't wear a seat belt, then there would be no argument...let them get on with it. Unfortunately, as we all know, it isn't as simple as that.

As others have said, what about the loved ones of the person who makes the irrational decision? What about the poor sods who are, through no fault of their own, witness to the carnage and are affected forever? What about the rest of us who have to suffer the consequences, either in the form of disdain from the genral public, more legislation from the powers-that-be and more $$ coming from our pockets to pay for foolhardiness.

I fear that this is a topic for which there is no real answer. You just have to do what you are going to do, and hope that it's the right decision.

[winston]

Issues like helmets are great because they are excellent ways to illustrate a fundamental difference in the way Americans and Canadians choose to govern themselves.

In Canada, having a license to operate a motor vehicle on the public roads is not a right, but a privilege.

With this in mind, a Provincial government can make reasonable laws to govern the safe use of vehicles on public roads.

Helmets are required by law everywhere in Canada in order to ride a motorcycle...in British Columbia they're simply talking about having the law changed to require to have riders wear a reasonably safe helmet.... just like everywhere else in Canada.

Given the cost to the taxpayers of caring for people who are injured while using motorized vehicles...it's not unreasonable to require a realistic standard of safety from motorcyclists in Canada.

So...in Canada, the whole question of "right to choose" when it comes to using the public roadways...just doesn't exist, whereas in the USA (or parts of it) you can choose to be a menace to yourself and others as long as you understand you'll be paying for it if/when you have to go to hospital or send someone there.

Thereby illustrating one fundamental difference between a constitutional republic and a parliamentary democracy....

[GroovieGhoulie]

Personally I believe that if someone wants to ride without a helmet, it is natural selection in action. Let them. But now I am going to play devil's advocate...you guys have covered the slippery slope of Where will it end? very well when we talk about over policing, but what if we looked at the other argument... so we shouldn't be able to police people's lives, Does that mean no seat belt laws? What if I believe I shouldnt' have to restrain my child in a safety sear, hey that's my child no-one has the right to tell me how to raise it.

You are correct.  No seatbelt laws, no child restraint laws.  Keep the Nanny State OUT of people's lives.

I know what the argument will be- it is different if you are only hurting yourself, but are you only hurting yourself? Ask any family that has lost someone because they choose not to protect themselves. How long do you think it will be before somone gets the bright idea to sue the state on behalf of a dead loved one because they didn't make them wear a helmet?

Has probably already happened.  If the "State" had any sense, they would tell the family members who are only seeking a handout to (politely) "F*** Off!"

And if we swing in the direction of personal choice over too much policing- why should ANY drug be illegal- not hurting anyone but yourself, Suicide shouldn't be illegal, self-mutilation, why can't i walk down the street naked, there are any number of things that could be called into question.

Once again, absolutely correct.  Every single drug would be legal, there would be no more gun control laws, no more Malum Prohibitum laws anywhere.

Now before i get flamed, remember I am playing devil's advocate. One thing I truly don't understand though is how the US believes that at the age of 18 someone is mature enough to decided to enlist, possibly go to war and die, but not old enough to decide to drink alcohol...

Correct.  the "Puritanistic" principles that America was founded upon unfortunately still drive the country, especially regarding sex, the human body abd drugs/alcohol.  hopefully we can turn that around in the future.

[nickjtc]

Issues like helmets are great because they are excellent ways to illustrate a fundamental difference in the way Americans and Canadians choose to govern themselves.
In Canada, having a license to operate a motor vehicle on the public roads is not a right, but a privilege.With this in mind, a Provincial government can make reasonable laws to govern the safe use of vehicles on public roads.
Helmets are required by law everywhere in Canada in order to ride a motorcycle...in British Columbia they're simply talking about having the law changed to require to have riders wear a reasonably safe helmet.... just like everywhere else in Canada.
Given the cost to the taxpayers of caring for people who are injured while using motorized vehicles...it's not unreasonable to require a realistic standard of safety from motorcyclists in Canada.
So...in Canada, the whole question of "right to choose" when it comes to using the public roadways...just doesn't exist, whereas in the USA (or parts of it) you can choose to be a menace to yourself and others as long as you understand you'll be paying for it if/when you have to go to hospital or send someone there.
Thereby illustrating one fundamental difference between a constitutional republic and a parliamentary democracy....

Hey Winston......beautifully put.

As a fellow Canadian I have absolutely no objection if my government makes 'reasonable laws to govern the safe use of vehicles on public roads'. You've hit the nail on the head....it's not as if any of these laws are 'unreasonable'.

[winston]

I like the feeling of the wind in my hair as much as anyone, whether it's playing hockey, on my bicycle or riding my Honda...but in each case, I wear my helmet.

My hockey helmet.

[Tim.]

The last thing I want in Canada is a health care system modeled after Mexico's.

My 4.5 year old daughter spent her first 10 days of life in Sick Kid's Hospital in Toronto.  She wasn't breathing when she was born, and was on a ventilator and other breathing assistance till she was 5 days old, which was the first time we were actually able to pick her up and hold her.

CT scans, MRI's, many many doses of various drugs, 24/7 care...  I can't even begin to add up what it would have cost.  A year of follow up care later and we finally were discharged from Sick Kid's care.

So, who's fault was this?  If we had a pay as you go health care system, we'd all be paying premiums to 2 or 3 major insurance companies, which would likely all have significant foreign interests.  Their only goal would be to provide minimum care at minimum cost to maximize profits for their shareholders.  It would cost us at least as much as it does now, and we'd all be worse off for it.  Everyone's premiums would be based not only on their particular risk based on their age / habits, but also on the statistical rate of illness which is based on cases like my daughters.  Bottom line is you pay for other's care whether you're here or elsewhere.

Activities that put us at risk are taxed, not necessarily adequately nor in the most effective manner, but they are taxed.  Owning an automobile is expensive and the Fed's get their share.  Same for motorcycles.  Moreso if you're dumb enough to smoke or drink loads of booze.  Our auto/motorcycle insurance has provisions for injury etc. built into them to pay for extra care beyond what we already pay for through our income taxes and other taxes.

If you don't like wearing a helmet - don't.  Take the risk and pay the fines if you get caught.  Without a helmet law, insurance companies would ask you to specify if you are a helmet wearer or not.  How much more insurance on your motorcycle would you like to pay?  2-3x perhaps wouldn't be unreasonable if you decide to go without a helmet.  Maybe more?

At the end of the day, if you don't like the way things are run, change them.  Run for office, protest, get petitions signed, lobby the government, thumb your nose at society and do what you please.  Or, move to Mexico.  Crash once, go bankrupt paying the bills and live in the streets.

[Ebrandon]

I love this! Open dialog/debate... it's how we all grow, learn more, possibly change.. yeah, i'll be that cheesy chick!

[nickjtc]

I love this! Open dialog/debate... it's how we all grow, learn more, possibly change.. yeah, i'll be that cheesy chick!

So, what's the female take on this? Women are supposed to be less risk takers than men....is that true in your opinion? Do you wear appropriate gear and helmet, or do you have a panache for the adventurous?

[my78k]

Got to admit that I didn't read the entire post but in the first post (the article) it mentions that Beanies are illegal in all other provinces?!?!?!

I see them all the time unless I am thinking of some other type of helmet...maybe Beanies are even smaller than the ones we have in Ontario...if soI'd be shocked that they would bother to even put them on...

[Ebrandon]

So, what's the female take on this? Women are supposed to be less risk takers than men....is that true in your opinion? Do you wear appropriate gear and helmet, or do you have a panache for the adventurous?

Hmm... personally I would never ride without my helmet, but I definitely don't always wear the rest of the gear. If I am taking a quick ride to work I usually am in jeans and a shirt...I am hyper aware of what the results could be the whole time though.

I would say that in general men are bigger risk takers with alot of things. I don't think it is inherent in the boy/girl genes though, I think it has much more to do with be raised to be bigger risk takers. Having worked with kids alot I see it ALL the time. The little boys are encouraged to try things that people "protect" their little girls from. And when a kid get hurt- I seems to be more common for boys to be told "you'll be fine shake it off" and girls to be "poor baby" while making a fuss.

I was definitely raised with more of the "boy" parenting attitude and I do have a panache for the adventurous-from hiking and backpacking to rockclimbing and hanggliding, I have had a lot of a different hobbies. Motorcycling is my newest and I love it!

I would think that women (and I say this very hesitantly) would be more likely to be for helmet laws. I think we have more of the perspective of how losing someone needlessly would effect those around us (parents, children, spouses). I know if I ever get married that I would KILL my husband for not wearing a helmet (that would prove to him that he's not superman!)

Disclaimer: I in no way pretend to represent all women, in fact I am one of the least girly girls ever.

[winston]

Got to admit that I didn't read the entire post but in the first post (the article) it mentions that Beanies are illegal in all other provinces?!?!?!

I see them all the time unless I am thinking of some other type of helmet...maybe Beanies are even smaller than the ones we have in Ontario...if soI'd be shocked that they would bother to even put them on...

There are beanies sold and worn here in Nova Scotia too...mostly by guys on new Sportsters.

[nickjtc]

I think we have more of the perspective of how losing someone needlessly would effect those around us (parents, children, spouses).

Very well put, thank you.

[dusterdude]

The issue is not to issue tickets but to reduce the number of fatalities we're having," he said........HORSE#$%*!!!!

[dusterdude]

damn,i have a headache from reading all this stuff,ill just ask this...did your insurance costs go down when your state/province/country enacted helmet/seat belt laws.i freakin doubt it.

[nickjtc]

damn,i have a headache from reading all this stuff,ill just ask this...did your insurance costs go down when your state/province/country enacted helmet/seat belt laws.i freakin doubt it.

Right. But at least they didn't go up as fast as they would have done with all of the claims...

[dusterdude]

gee,i wonder when people that ski  and/or do other "dangerous" things will be required to wear helmets.

[nickjtc]

gee,i wonder when people that ski  and/or do other "dangerous" things will be required to wear helmets.

Good point. I'm not a skier, but I see a lot of people wearing helmets out of choice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it may be mandatory for kids to wear head protection on ski hills here.......