Author Topic: CB 750 Project 1 - Rides Well but a few tweaks needed  (Read 113470 times)

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Offline Bootsey

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - now trying to get it started
« Reply #725 on: November 09, 2016, 03:40:51 PM »
Third post down from Dave500 also shows the marks on a 550 advancer if it's of any help.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,124077.msg1409069.html#msg1409069

Offline scottly

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - now trying to get it started
« Reply #726 on: November 09, 2016, 08:35:09 PM »
A quick and dirty test would be to swap the yellow and blue wires; if it runs, the advancer is 180* off. ;)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - now trying to get it started
« Reply #727 on: November 09, 2016, 09:02:34 PM »
Yep, if it's firing at the bottom of the stroke, swap the wires and it'll probably fire right up Tim. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - now trying to get it started
« Reply #728 on: November 09, 2016, 09:33:03 PM »
Woll swap the wires first at the coil and see what happens. 

I should of guessed this though.  The first bike I had was a xl100, early seventies. Got it when i was 14 from a guy who said it wouldn't start, cost $40 with a spare engine. Pulled apart the top of the engine and put it all back together and it wouldn't fire. The lobe for the points could be installed in 2 postions, swapped it and it run. The guy I brought it off was pissed I got it running.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - now trying to get it started
« Reply #729 on: November 09, 2016, 11:44:05 PM »
It's ALIVE!!!

There are still a few things to sort out and I think still have to recheck the carbies. It doesn't want to rev past 2500 and idles like #$%*. Also number 4 exhaust seems to be getting a lot hotter than rest so it might running a bit lean.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - now trying to get it started
« Reply #730 on: November 09, 2016, 11:57:00 PM »
Also I am certain that I have run the clutch cable in wrong spot. I am thinking it should be between 1-2 not 2-3.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - now trying to get it started
« Reply #731 on: November 11, 2016, 12:53:19 AM »
Well done Timbo, and yes, the clutch cable should run down the right hand side frame tube between 1&2. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #732 on: November 11, 2016, 01:25:08 PM »
Something seems to have cleared, maybe just the aero start has now all burned away. It now starts reasonably well, it wont start with choke but prefers a little throttle. It will idle ok for a bit and then if I give a little throttle twist it stays at about 3000rpm. It is also smelling quite rich, so the carbs are coming off to check all the settings, I am not confident of where the jet needle is set to and I rebuilt them with non-genuine jets but I still have the originals.

My question now to the brains trust is this. In Hondamans book he mentions that the 657A carbs (which I have) came out with #115(K1) & #110(K2) main jets and the needle set to 4th notch from the top, the later 657B carbs used a #105 and the needle in the middle position. These changes seemed to be more about improving efficiency rather than performance. Should I run the carbs with #105 and middle jet position or use the K2 #110 and 4th position?

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #733 on: November 11, 2016, 04:26:11 PM »
Only done one carb so far. Jet needle was in third position,  main jet is #110 aftermarket and ones that came out where #120 (2 genuine and 2 not) so the #110 are staying for now. I will put the genuine slow jets back in and double check the float level on them all and see what difference I get.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #734 on: November 11, 2016, 05:18:03 PM »
Yeah mate, more importantly, our modern higher octane fuel in Oz is more "condensed" than what was available almost 50 years ago when our bikes came out, so if you run bigger jets (especially with piss-weak points ignitions) it'll run too rich. Don't forget that modern fuel goes "flat" quicker than leaded fuel, and speaking of leaded fuel, make sure you use an additive to stop the valves welding themselves to their seats. Don't use any "ethanol" fuel, it's not compatible with our bikes. If you've read Mark's book, he's probably mentioned running one shade hotter plugs than the standard D8's. Cheers, Terry. ;D 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #735 on: November 12, 2016, 03:56:48 PM »
I changed the advancer cam out 180 and all it did was make 1-4 fire when the marks were at 2-3. So I changed it back to the way it was a have left the wires crossed over at the coils for now. There is something going on that I can't find.

I changed the slow jet back to the original ones, and changed the idle air screw as well. It runs a bit better now but when you give it a rev it still doesn't want to return to idle. I have read about this before but can't remember where and the search isn't working at all for me at the moment. My first thoughts are that it is running too rich, I also need to get a timing light so that I can know the ignition is spot on.

Also for some reason the carbs are now over flowing, I did not change the float at all from the original setting but now they are leaking a bit, not sure how much that can effect the running?

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #736 on: November 12, 2016, 10:28:17 PM »
A little more progress. Got myself a timing light and got the timing spot on. Then I realised it sounded like it was missing but not like one cylinder was firing more like occasionally missing. So I started pulling off the plugs leads while it was running, 1 & 4 would stall the engine but 2 & 3 would make very little difference. I also noticed some more sparking across the points for 2-3 so changed the condensor but it's still missing.

Offline krusty

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #737 on: November 13, 2016, 12:04:27 AM »
What is the three digit model code stamped on the points plate?
Honda
1976 CB750F1
1978 CB750F2
1972 CB350F
1961 C100 Cub
1962 C100 Cub
1959 C76
1963 C92
1964 C95
Suzuki
1963 M15D 50cc
1961 250TA Colleda
1961 250TA Colleda x 2 primed ready for paint and assembly
Yamaha
1977 DT175E x 2
1978 DT125E
1979 DT125F
1976 DT250E
1978 DT250G
1984 FJ1100
1990 FJ1200

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #738 on: November 13, 2016, 12:07:52 AM »
Krusty, there is no number obvious at the front,  where should I be looking?

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #739 on: November 13, 2016, 01:47:45 AM »
Have you got spark at all 4 plugs Tim? If you have, stop worrying about your ignition, points are rubbish, but if you've got spark, they're doing their job.

If you've adjusted your valves properly and your cam timing is spot on, you should have adequate compression, (get a compression tester and check, don't worry about numbers, just make sure they're all within 10% of each other) so all that leaves is your carbs.

Yeah yeah, I know, you've cleaned them all, but are they really clean? You need an air compressor, a can of carb cleaner, and some patience. Remove your carbs completely, drop your float bowls, remove everything, (floats, needle and seats, main jet and pilot jet) and importantly, mixture screws.

Pump compressed air through every orifice, and make sure it's coming out the other end. Spray carb cleaner through every orifice (watch your eyes, that stuff stings) and make sure every orifice is clear, then spray air through again to make sure.

Check that your main and pilot jets  are clear, make sure all the little holes in the main jet emulsion tubes are clear and clean, then re-assemble. Turn the mixture screws in all the way until they just touch, then wind them out 1.5 turns, that's all you'll need for a "ball-park" setting. 

Check your float levels. If fuel is pissing out (with the bike on the main stand, sometimes they'll leak on the side stand) the levels are too high. I know you're probably thinking that you've cleaned the bloody carbs enough, but you mentioned earlier that when you pulled the plug caps on 2 and 3 it made little difference, that tells me that your idle circuits are blocked.

It is a trick for new players Tim, I remember when another member proudly rode his bike over to my place to show it off to me a few years ago, and I pointed out that it was only running on 3 cylinders. He was really happy when I made it run on all 4 for him! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline krusty

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #740 on: November 13, 2016, 03:19:56 AM »
Usually on the face of the plate Honda would stamp the model number. The reason I asked is that a friend came around to today as he was having running problems with his K1.5/2 (and possibly 'P'). He decided to instal a Pamco ignition system to try and sort it. Trouble was, the Pamco rotor didn't fit his points plate. I had a look at the plate and noticed almost immediately it was stamped '333' which happens to be the model code for CB350F. A PO has built this engine up with the wrong points plate and cam.
I was wondering if there was a slim chance (or a long shot) that the PO of your bike may have done the same. Points damaged in a fall perhaps and then replaced with something looks the same but isn't?
My mate is now looking for the correct plate. Anyone have a spare?
Honda
1976 CB750F1
1978 CB750F2
1972 CB350F
1961 C100 Cub
1962 C100 Cub
1959 C76
1963 C92
1964 C95
Suzuki
1963 M15D 50cc
1961 250TA Colleda
1961 250TA Colleda x 2 primed ready for paint and assembly
Yamaha
1977 DT175E x 2
1978 DT125E
1979 DT125F
1976 DT250E
1978 DT250G
1984 FJ1100
1990 FJ1200

Offline disco

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #741 on: November 13, 2016, 03:37:54 AM »
If pulling 2-3 plug leads makes little difference, it sounds like your running on only two cylinders (1-4). Exhaust headers that are hot to touch, will soon tell you if cylinders 2-3 are firing. If there is not "fire in the hole" I would chase electrical gremlins first.
1976 CB750 K6 Sapphire Blue
1972 CB750 K2 836 Orange Sunrise
1972 CB750 K2 Candy Red
1972 CB750 K2 Candy Gold'

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #742 on: November 14, 2016, 01:06:51 PM »
A Dyna S is going in.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #743 on: November 14, 2016, 07:39:09 PM »
Good move Timbo, points are passé........ ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #744 on: November 14, 2016, 10:01:45 PM »
I think I just wanted to prove to mysrlf that I could get it running on points. I don't like being beat by machinery.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #745 on: November 15, 2016, 01:31:04 AM »
Dyna S is in. Its still not running on 4 cylinders this time 1&2 exhausts are getting hot and 3&4 are cold. Exhaust fumes are heavily laden with unburnt fuel.

Offline maduncle

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #746 on: November 15, 2016, 03:07:28 AM »
I remember when another member proudly rode his bike over to my place to show it off to me a few years ago, and I pointed out that it was only running on 3 cylinders. He was really happy when I made it run on all 4 for him! Cheers, Terry. ;D

I've come a long way since then ...

 ::)
CB750K2 (only slightly modified)

Offline disco

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #747 on: November 15, 2016, 05:06:25 AM »
Don't forget to check spark plug caps. They can be troublesome
1976 CB750 K6 Sapphire Blue
1972 CB750 K2 836 Orange Sunrise
1972 CB750 K2 Candy Red
1972 CB750 K2 Candy Gold'

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #748 on: November 15, 2016, 10:22:55 AM »
I haven't checked plug gap. I will admit to assuming that the new plugs would be ok.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - got it started, but not running right
« Reply #749 on: November 15, 2016, 10:23:41 AM »
Cliff. Do you know anyone on our side of town that can sync the carbs.