Author Topic: CB 750 Project 1 - Rides Well but a few tweaks needed  (Read 114109 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2013, 10:21:29 PM »
Just an update, not much seems to have progressed but there are always stages when you spend more time finding solutions and researching than actually fitting or replacing parts.

Got the tank filled up with vinegar this afternoon, so next week should be able to drain and neutralize. By the way, I read somewhere that the fuel tank was 19 litres - Crap, its 17 litres full to the brim.

Had some issues with the carbs and ended up resorting to the spare set I was keeping for the next bike, seal kit is ordered but still have lots of cleaning to do in those hard to reach spots.

started on the head on Saturday, all the engine is at my mates workshop at the moment so it will only move when I can get there but will be doing the porting next time I am there and I am hoping to convince him to put it on the flow bench to see what we get.

Tried to source the gearbox bearings today and got fed what I thought was Bull$hit. The guy said that Honda usually used different versions of bearing's and that if he sold me the common variety (as per the number) then he might be liable if they fail, so he is on my list of never deal with again and I will try some elsewhere tomorrow.

There are a couple of bearings Honda used that were known as "high speed", or "extra clearance" bearings. These had an extra .0002" to .0004" clearance in the ball-race area. Today, these are commonly known as "electric motor" bearings. Here in the US, they are now the most commonly-available bearings, for some reason. "Normal" bearings will fit OK but will drag a little more under power, reducing engine output, because the mainshaft twists within the engine cases (which also wiggle) and misalign the races a little bit.

The tranny question: the trannies betwenn the K0 and early K3 are the same. The later K3 through K5 are the same. The main differences here are: the final drive shaft on the earlier versions has a 1-row output bearing with a shouldered final drive shaft. The later version has a dual-row (wider) final drive bearing. There is a groove retaining ring that locates these bearings, so you must have the right one to fit your cases. In the lateK3 engines and early K4 engines there were 2 grooves in the final drive hole, to fit either one: you just have to have all the pieces to make them fit right.

The K0-K3 shift drum has slightly faster groove movements between gears than the later ones. The shift forks for those drums were mostly a little narrower to help with the quick shifting (about .004" to .006" narrower than later ones). The later gears will fit the earlier forks and drums OK, but the earlier gears may have a little too-snug fit on the later forks and drum, making for sticky shifting when hot.

The later shift drum has very steep 1-N-2 shifting ramps, the tradeoff being that the "N" has a wider notch that makes it easier to find when the engine is hot. Thus, the later drum needs the later forks, at least for the 1-2-3 shifts, so the excess slop of the early forks can cause the 2nd gear to not fully engage unless you are real deliberate (every time) with the 1-2 upshift.

The pre-K4 gear bushings are bronze. The post-K4 bushings are cast iron. This transition began in the late K3 bikes, around 4/73 production. The bronze ones last 10x longer, easily, and have 30% of the friction of the cast-iron versions. The gears can be swapped to the differing shafts, but their bushings should go with them, because the bronze ones have tighter fits than the cast iron ones. If you use the cast-iron bushings, make sure your oil has lots of zinc in it, or shifting will be stiff, period. This plagues these bikes here in the US because our all-knowing, all-wise, all-corrupt EPA has forced 70-90% of the zinc out of our oils....

Make sure there is no slop on the pins in the shift drum: seeing all that water damage makes me wonder if they might be rusted, or their holes? If they get loose, the gearbox shifting feels real indeterminate.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 07:57:35 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2013, 12:18:31 PM »
Honda Man - in reply, where all the bearings "extra clearance" I am thinking I may have normal for them all however I didn't ask when ordering so I don't really know.

With the final drive both original and the purchased set have a double row bearing and the set I purchased had excellent bearings and so I ma not changing them. this said though I think all the bushings are bronze from memory - I will check on that.

I have check the shift drum for anything other than excessive wear, but I got forks with shift drum I purchased so it all should match up there. I will just need to check the pins and holes for slop. the old drum actually rotated freely by hand before I pulled it apart so the holes in the case should be fine.

Once again HM your knowledge is outstanding and always grateful, I have ordered your book but it is very slow coming across the waters.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2013, 05:56:45 PM »
Honda Man - in reply, where all the bearings "extra clearance" I am thinking I may have normal for them all however I didn't ask when ordering so I don't really know.

With the final drive both original and the purchased set have a double row bearing and the set I purchased had excellent bearings and so I ma not changing them. this said though I think all the bushings are bronze from memory - I will check on that.

I have check the shift drum for anything other than excessive wear, but I got forks with shift drum I purchased so it all should match up there. I will just need to check the pins and holes for slop. the old drum actually rotated freely by hand before I pulled it apart so the holes in the case should be fine.

Once again HM your knowledge is outstanding and always grateful, I have ordered your book but it is very slow coming across the waters.

Some folks used to get the 'extra clearance' bearings for all 4 on the shafts, back in the Production Stock roadracing days of the 1970s. The theory was that they didn't need as much break-in time to release the friction, and since these bikes were often running at very high revs during our bouts, it made some sense. After I've ridden mine so far, though, I am keen with the idea of keeping the tight ones myself, just because the gear wear was so low that I used most of the gears again, changing just a few. The 'new' ones had more inner bushing clearance than the 'old' ones, even now, and none of them had measureable (or even observable) tooth wear toward their outside edges of the teeth. This latter would show up if the shafts were out of alignment for a long time from the twisting loads, and as much time as I spent near (or over) triple-digit speeds in those pre-marriage years, I was dead sure I would see this: sometimes I would be doing whole weeks of 1000-mile days for my vacations, changing oil every night. I see it in the later gearboxes (iron bushings) with far fewer miles, so it seems the bronze ones make a heck of a difference. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2013, 10:00:57 PM »
Honda Man - in reply, where all the bearings "extra clearance" I am thinking I may have normal for them all however I didn't ask when ordering so I don't really know.

With the final drive both original and the purchased set have a double row bearing and the set I purchased had excellent bearings and so I ma not changing them. this said though I think all the bushings are bronze from memory - I will check on that.

I have check the shift drum for anything other than excessive wear, but I got forks with shift drum I purchased so it all should match up there. I will just need to check the pins and holes for slop. the old drum actually rotated freely by hand before I pulled it apart so the holes in the case should be fine.

Once again HM your knowledge is outstanding and always grateful, I have ordered your book but it is very slow coming across the waters.

Some folks used to get the 'extra clearance' bearings for all 4 on the shafts, back in the Production Stock roadracing days of the 1970s. The theory was that they didn't need as much break-in time to release the friction, and since these bikes were often running at very high revs during our bouts, it made some sense. After I've ridden mine so far, though, I am keen with the idea of keeping the tight ones myself, just because the gear wear was so low that I used most of the gears again, changing just a few. The 'new' ones had more inner bushing clearance than the 'old' ones, even now, and none of them had measureable (or even observable) tooth wear toward their outside edges of the teeth. This latter would show up if the shafts were out of alignment for a long time from the twisting loads, and as much time as I spent near (or over) triple-digit speeds in those pre-marriage years, I was dead sure I would see this: sometimes I would be doing whole weeks of 1000-mile days for my vacations, changing oil every night. I see it in the later gearboxes (iron bushings) with far fewer miles, so it seems the bronze ones make a heck of a difference. ;)

Thanks HM, the finally arrived today - took just over a month, I got parts from Dynoman in one week, strange. it would however seem strange that Honda would go backwards with cast bushings instead of the bronze, we may never know why.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2014, 02:50:42 AM »
Well its been a while since I have added anything, I have mainly been posting question on the tech forum to try and sort out what was missing and was not right. so for anyone that is interested I will try to give an update of where things are at.

I got all the bearings for the gear box and at a pretty good price I thought also, just over 100 bucks for a full set including the needle rollers in the primary drive gear. I had no real dramas fitting them either just a bit of thought with some of them and some moved quite easily after waving the heat gun around.

The upper triple tree was stuffed, most likely from a lack of D washers, but at first I was not bothered as I got a spare with the bike. However I realised the spare was of a different bike of similar age (mounts and tabs were different) but with different geometry so I had to get another, the classifieds on this forum has been brilliant.

I have slowly been doing a bit here and there on the carbs mainly because I didn't want to rush things and I know you want them really clean and as there was a few stubborn bits I just kept working at them as time and patience would permit. They are now assembled as individual items and will get them reattached as one over the next few weeks.

The engine has only made some slow progress but as I am trying to make use of a mates workshop and can only get things done when he has spare time it was always going to be slow. It is however a great cost saving. So far we have mainly been cleaning, actually I do all the cleaning and blasting while he drinks beer. We decided to remove on the weekend the oil restrictors in the head that sit under the turrets, had to wreck them to get them out but he said no worries we will make new ones. Anyway good thing we did as one of them was completely blocked and I don't think that anything we would of done would ever of cleared it, engine would of been screwed within 1000k's. Also removed the studs, well nearly all of them, one of them was so seized that the stud ended up twisted and broke.

Pulled apart the forks on the weekend, the oil in one was just old and discoloured but the other was like chocolate milk, I would not of thought that you could get so much water leaking into the forks, but I suppose if the seals are stuffed and it was in the weather it would just be a matter of time. But at first inspection everything looks to be fine. So I will clean up the fork tubes and try my hand at polishing and see what they come up like.

One of the next things on the list is to finally refit the missing steering stop. I actually nearly forgot and was about to send the frame of to powder coaters when I saw it again. I think the only way to get it right is to fit the triple tree with the forks and the tank and start measuring and weld something a little too big and grind it down to suit. To finally get the frame coated and back will be the first major milestone as I can then work on reinstalling parts.

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2014, 09:01:52 AM »
........

I got all the bearings for the gear box and at a pretty good price I thought also, just over 100 bucks for a full set including the needle rollers in the primary drive gear. I had no real dramas fitting them either just a bit of thought with some of them and some moved quite easily after waving the heat gun around.
.........

Do you mind sharing where did you get the replacements? I'm trying to change all the transmission ones on mine but haven't quite been able to confirm which SKF or NSK ones work correctly...

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2014, 12:39:15 PM »
........

I got all the bearings for the gear box and at a pretty good price I thought also, just over 100 bucks for a full set including the needle rollers in the primary drive gear. I had no real dramas fitting them either just a bit of thought with some of them and some moved quite easily after waving the heat gun around.
.........

Do you mind sharing where did you get the replacements? I'm trying to change all the transmission ones on mine but haven't quite been able to confirm which SKF or NSK ones work correctly...

The bearing numbers should not change from make to make, sometimes there is a suffix that might be different. For example the most common bearing sold here in Aus is a sealed bearing which comes with the rubber seal on the sides and had extra numbers after the bearing number, these are what I got as they where cheaper and the seal pops out real easy. the bearings with the snap rings came with a smaller-thinner snap ring which has been discussed on many threads. What many people have suggested is getting the bearing groove cut or ground to be the same as the original. I went the opposite way and ground the old snap ring with a dremel so it would locate correctly in the case, you only need to grind one side of the ring as the groove on the new bearing is narrower only on one side. I ended up with a snap ring that was thinner on the inside radius to suit the new bearing.

Hope this helps.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2014, 12:38:55 PM »
So I decided to start cleaning the fork tubes and making them look a little better. Thought I would start with the green scourer and take it from there. first one came up nice and I leaning towards leaving them as the brushed look (first photo). The second one however had a few dings and scratches in it but I was hoping if they were all clean then they might not show up too much (next 2 photos).

Well the photos don't actually show how noticeable the marks actually are. So I started with a budget polishing kit for the drill (don't have a bench grinder), and of course they stand out even more. This is the bit where I have to admit to being impatient, I did not have any wet and dry or even any sort of fine sand paper. I noticed however that the dremel had the finest sanding option available to me at the time so started trying to take the edges of and smooth things out. It cleaned up the casting marks around the calliper mounts but it made the dings look worse mainly because its not smooth. So I will be getting some wet & dry before I get home tonight. Once they are smoothed out I may go back to the brushed look as I don't think the dings will be completely gone.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2014, 08:36:58 PM »
Honda Man - in reply, where all the bearings "extra clearance" I am thinking I may have normal for them all however I didn't ask when ordering so I don't really know.

With the final drive both original and the purchased set have a double row bearing and the set I purchased had excellent bearings and so I ma not changing them. this said though I think all the bushings are bronze from memory - I will check on that.

I have check the shift drum for anything other than excessive wear, but I got forks with shift drum I purchased so it all should match up there. I will just need to check the pins and holes for slop. the old drum actually rotated freely by hand before I pulled it apart so the holes in the case should be fine.

Once again HM your knowledge is outstanding and always grateful, I have ordered your book but it is very slow coming across the waters.

Some folks used to get the 'extra clearance' bearings for all 4 on the shafts, back in the Production Stock roadracing days of the 1970s. The theory was that they didn't need as much break-in time to release the friction, and since these bikes were often running at very high revs during our bouts, it made some sense. After I've ridden mine so far, though, I am keen with the idea of keeping the tight ones myself, just because the gear wear was so low that I used most of the gears again, changing just a few. The 'new' ones had more inner bushing clearance than the 'old' ones, even now, and none of them had measureable (or even observable) tooth wear toward their outside edges of the teeth. This latter would show up if the shafts were out of alignment for a long time from the twisting loads, and as much time as I spent near (or over) triple-digit speeds in those pre-marriage years, I was dead sure I would see this: sometimes I would be doing whole weeks of 1000-mile days for my vacations, changing oil every night. I see it in the later gearboxes (iron bushings) with far fewer miles, so it seems the bronze ones make a heck of a difference. ;)

Thanks HM, the finally arrived today - took just over a month, I got parts from Dynoman in one week, strange. it would however seem strange that Honda would go backwards with cast bushings instead of the bronze, we may never know why.

It was an economy-of-manufacture thing in those days. The background (from Sochiro's biography) makes the "why" pretty clear: the 750 was the 3rd time he nearly bankrupted the company ("bet the farm") to get a new bike out. He stepped down from that level of power in Honda Motor Company in 1973 (voluntarily) as they were just coming out of the tough times the 750 had induced on them, and were turning toward the good times again. It took off dramatically, but they had gone under financially to open the 'new factory', and the 750 sales were carrying the banner for them by 1972. Competition from the Kawi 900 and the Suzy waterbike were making big inroads, though, so they kept the 750's price at just $1750 to hold sales up. The DOT was also pounding on Honda (and ONLY Honda) to make the "safety" things we know today as the Safety Interlock Module, and up-front running lights (which was repealed in 1982). To afford all this, they did all the following "less expensive" things by 1/73 builds that I recorded:
1. Stopped making expensively-machined swingarm bolts and reduced the 2-zerk design to 1 (which didn't work at all) with flanged phenolic bushings and sealed cup washers (parts count dropped by 5 items).
2. Started accepting poorer castings into production engines without the finishing touches like flash removal and fin straightening, or fixing sagging ports. This caused a stark drop in power. All the engines (top ends) became painted, in the aluminum paint we most often see today, to avoid the hand-polishing that had been common, both inside and out.
3. The seat became noticeably less comfortable, had less foam, and a thinner cover (that split in as little as 2 years).
4. The valve springs were not matched anymore, instead becoming tapered ones that would just cause less vibration if they were not close in strength to each other.
5. The metal of the carb hose clamps got thinner.
6. The chains from RK became faster-wearing than the post-1970 versions, probably because the 18T front sprocket was helping make them last longer.
7. The O-rings in several places inside the engine got thinner.
8. The early oil jets in the head became the much cheaper 7-hole aluminum turnings instead of the 2-piece crimped-together, 13-strainer-hole types.
9. The wires in the harness all shrunk in gage size, while the connectors changed to unplated versions.
10. The cams became much less accurately made.
11. The top steering head casting changed to a stamped sheet metal piece with much less expensive chrome parts.
12. The chrome got brighter, but thinner, on the fenders and clutch/starter/points covers. The points covers became much thinner. The metal of the gas caps lightened up, too.
13. The petcocks on the tanks became 1 instead of 2, so they could be built faster (I'm guessing at the 'why' here, as the USA had a 55 MPH speed limit in those days, and the bikes sipped gas at that speed).
14. The clutch hubs became cast-and-machined parts instead of built-up, steel-supported and welded arrangements. This saved a lot of labor time. The clutch plates got narrower, with more "blocks" of cork in smaller segments, starting in 1974. This meant there was less surface cork area overall, but the bikes made less HP by then, too.
15. The bronze bearings inside the tranny gears became cast iron on all the New Factory bikes I saw by 1974. By 1976 they were all cast iron.
16. The Stellite valve guides disappeared in favor of cast iron guides.
17. The highly-polished, free-to-spin rocker shafts got little bolts on them to lock them in place, so they didn't need to be perfectly straight anymore. It also reduced a tiny rattle sound in the top end.
18. The expensive "holey" drilled-and-lightened cam sprockets disappeared in favor of solid, as-cast versions.
19. The expensive 1-piece oil rings disappeared and became the cheaper ripple-ring type.
20. Points on the new bikes came as Hitachi, which did not last as long as the TEC type.
21. New bikes came with ND X24ES (not the "U" type) sparkplugs, which were 30 cents each when the NGK was $1 each.
22. The chain guards lost their front brace (or the 2 braces it had) in favor of a longer 1-piece inner support.
23. The front forks were changed to lose almost 10 parts of assembly.
24. The front brake hanger was changed to a smaller, less-expensive 2-piece casting. The lower brake hose got noticeably shorter, too. So did the steel line between the hose and the caliper.

There's actually many more of these sorts of 'little' things, but you get the idea: they were trying to make some $$ on it as the competition was getting better, and while they held the price as steady as they could. I think they were pretty sharp, in their own way. :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2014, 11:52:43 AM »
HM thanks for the info, it all makes sense when you have the full story. I have allways seen Honda as a company that builds products to a minimum quality standard but when you have find alternatives just to stay viable then that is what you must do.

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Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2014, 09:09:39 PM »
Got the steering stop finally welded on. Still needs a little trimming but I am going to install the lower tree an the fuel tank with the old forks and get them trimmed down so nothing touches. Once its final trim is done I should be able to send of to get PC.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2014, 01:06:32 PM »
I was reading through some twin disc conversion docs and could not picture in my head how you could mount calliper arm on the right hand side, it never seemed to match up when in my head (didn't have all the parts in one place, some are stored at work until actually start work on them)

I then realised eventually that my bike has two left lower fork cases (I think that's the right name), when I first pulled it all apart and noticed they where identical I thought that it was just a cost saving thing to do with production considering they never came out with twin discs, why have two moulds and two parts to carry when you can have one.

don't ask me about the mounting for the front guard, I can't remember anything that was obviously not right but this bike had so many missing parts and bolts that the right side may only of had one bolt and I didn't take much notice of it.

Now I currently have two options, one would be to find a right side fork case if I can find one locally, I may need to but a set no idea on price yet. The other is that I have a set of forks with twin discs of a CB750P7 - yes 'P' from looking at CMS they seem to be the same as the F2/F3 but I now nee to check if they will fit the triple tree of the K. The triple tree on the P has different geometry and hay effect the way the bike handles.

I would like to stick the K forks, they are better looking without the ridge running down them and I have all the rebuild parts for the K forks, worst of all I had nearly finished polishing both forks.

Offline martin99

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2014, 01:50:27 PM »
Fork case = sliders (or lowers) ;)

F2 forks will fit your triple, both stanchions are 35mm. But... you may run into trouble if you plan to keep your spoked wheels, as F2's were fitted with comstars. May need some ingenuity with rotor size/spacing, and spindle spacers will also be different. I'm sure it's been done though. I think you'll find a lot of people opt for a GL1000 front end.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 01:54:03 PM by oldskoolnuts »
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2014, 02:27:36 PM »
Fork case = sliders (or lowers) ;)

F2 forks will fit your triple, both stanchions are 35mm. But... you may run into trouble if you plan to keep your spoked wheels, as F2's were fitted with comstars. May need some ingenuity with rotor size/spacing, and spindle spacers will also be different. I'm sure it's been done though. I think you'll find a lot of people opt for a GL1000 front end.

I actually have the front wheel of the P bike and it is spoked, but I do not know about axle size yet, and the speedo drive is also different on the P bike, two speedo's would you believe. I have a 750K and a 500/550 speedo drive so maybe one of them might work. I had a brief look at P forks and I will need the fork tubes not to mention the calliper seals and fork seals.

So for the moment I am expecting the cheapest option is to find a right fork lower.

Offline martin99

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2014, 03:20:24 PM »
Two speedos? Does the 'P' stand for police by any chance?
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2014, 03:59:22 PM »
Two speedos? Does the 'P' stand for police by any chance?
Yes the P stands for Police, I got most of the bike and bits without the engine, even the controls have a heap of extra buttons. Considered keeping all bits for a later project but some of the bits are more damaged than I expected.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2014, 02:41:57 AM »
Didn't get to do much this weekend, I was a little put off by the wrong fork lower as I was so close to putting the forks back together. I did however check on the steering stop I welded in place. Good thing I did because one side was too close to the tank, so a little bit weld on one side and now they are both the same - if I have to file some of later to give extra steering stop it won't be a big deal but welding after the PC is something that I am trying very hard to avoid.

This brings me to something else I noticed when I sat the tank in place while testing the steering stop. There seemed to be a lot of side movement of the tank at the front rubbers, I didn't measure it but there would of been 15-20mm movement which just didn't seem right to me. I have read that the tanks did change over the years but as far as I am aware the frames stayed the same, something I need to research.

BTW if any one is selling 750 stuff I have a WTB classified http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=134168.0 the only reply so far hasn't come back to me with details.

Offline calj737

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2014, 05:35:42 AM »
You should not have that much lateral movement on the tank. You might take a measurement between the tanks, underside where the tank slides onto the rubbers. If the new tank is too wide, you can shim the rubbers out by welding a spacer at the base, or cut and re-weld the entire stud by spacing at the base. Same result, but some prefer to cut and re-weld for strength so as not to lose the length of the rubber sitting on the stud. Make sense?
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Offline stewonepot

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2014, 11:20:53 AM »
are you sure your tank has'nt spread, some folks put air in to pop out dents!
you could try a rachet stap round it if it has
regards stew

Offline calj737

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2014, 12:42:32 PM »
No offense Stew, but that doesn't sounds right or good. Squeezing a tank with a ratchet would likely pop a seam or bend the top panel/crease the side panels. Maybe I missed elsewhere in the thread where some dent work was done, but "if someone used air to pop dents" then stretch would be consistent in terms of ballooning the tank, not just spreading the tunnel.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline stewonepot

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2014, 02:08:38 PM »
no offence taken, but this has happened before.As mentioned the frames are all the same size at this point
regards stew

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2014, 03:18:22 PM »
Tanks for the reply's and the suggestions. I will tell you what I know about the tank.

I is not the tank that was on the bike when I got it but it did come with the bike. the original tank as got rust holes in it and I have done nothing to this tank yet. it has had all the paint removed (possibly sand blasted when you look under it) and has a thin layer of primer. I intend to sand back all the primer as I do not know what sort of work has been done under the primer. Although you can never trust everything a PO says I doubt he would of used compressed air in the tank as he had been working on bikes for many years and some other nice bikes he was keeping.

I will measure the newer tank with the one that was on the bike and see if there is any difference at and around the front mounts. I think modifying the mounting pins on the frame to the best option, I have the welder and it should not take too long to do.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2014, 02:08:24 AM »
I checked the width measurements of both tanks in few spots. At the rear of the tank there is no difference but at the front the differences are big but most are around 10-12mm wider on the suspect tank. The difference is quite noticeable just by looking at them both. I would like to be able to return the tank to original but fear I may only bend it where I don't want it bent. So for now I will work out someway of widening the pins so that I can return it to original if I need to.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2014, 08:08:47 PM »
Not too much to report, got the frame cut for the mod kit and trying to get things sorted for the powder coater. Changed to seat for second disc calliper, man that thing did not want come out, heat it cool it, heat it cool it, heat it cool it, stick it I a vice and pull like hell.

Managed to get the right fork leg, just waiting on it to arrive now. Also ordered new fork tubes from K1 and some other bits, but they did not have progressive springs so now I am going to work out what I need from vintage750.

Still no progress on the engine, I am looking at it this way. When the engine is finished everything should be done and I can fit it and ride it.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB 750 Project 1 - Getting engine ready for assembly
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2014, 02:38:55 PM »
Well I got the replacement lower fork tubes and headlight bucket, thanks Bill. Also have some parts coming form Z1 that should allow me to finally reassemble the forks. I am hoping to find time to order some parts today from Yamiya.

But the best thing I managed to do is finally drop of the frame and some other parts to get the PC done. I had my doubts at first as to who to use and when I took the frame into the workshop and saw several other frames in there in knew they where capable of what I wanted, should be two weeks and then I can start putting some things back together.