Topic: Need some fuel advice

[Bailgang]

Why do Europeans and other people around the World always think they are better than Americans 

That's actually the most amusing part because they seem to forget we're an immigrant nation. For example many German engineers seem to think they're God's gift to engineering, I once had one do a passing insult towards me and I promptly informed him that my ancestry is German ......... which may fully explain any bad habits he thought I  may have. That shut him up quick but to make sure he shut up I put my arm around him and said in my most red neck accent "cheer up pal, we just might be long lost cousins". 

[martin99]

That's simple, saving their sorry a$$ess twice in one century can not be forgiven.  They are carrying heavy minderwertigkeitskomplexe.

As a Brit I don't expect this forum would miss me for one minute, but if you want to say goodbye to a member with 35 years plus of biking experience, who will unconditionally try to help anyone out, you're going the right way about it.

I'm one of those thick skinned bikers that can take a joke, but it doesn't mean I have to put up with juvenile and #$%* comments like that.

[ekpent]

Sorry that I poked a little fun at Delta, probably in bad taste and he is a good guy with good posts. Lets not get this thing started into something it shouldn't. We all have national pride which is a good thing but more importantly we all have an interest in old Honda's, GROUP HUG and lets get back to talking about gas or better yet OIL      Eric

[martin99]

No probs. Dummy (or is it 'pacifier' over there?) back in.

[Bailgang]

more importantly we all have an interest in old Honda's, GROUP HUG and lets get back to talking about gas or better yet OIL      Eric

+1

[TwoTired]

Seafoam and other fuel additives help keep the water
 in the fuel(attracted) by ethanol, in suspension.

Doesn't alcohol do that all by itself?

Quite right.

I checked out the MSDS for Seafoam.

Pale oil, naptha (also called white gas), and IPA.  IPA = Isopropyl alcohol.  The alcohol is the only part of the product that can absorb water and drag it into the engine and out the exhaust.

I fail to understand any logic that equates to adding more alcohol to cure an alcohol induced problem.  This sounds like something a bartender would say to promote his continued employment.

Seafoam is intended to keep the gas for getting worse over time and to clean internal bits that can't be "washed" by gasoline as a solvent.  I don't believe it actually improves the quality of gasoline.  But, it just might delay it's degradation.

[KJ790]

Like all gas threads on this site, there is tons of misinformation and rumors being posted. My advice to the original poster is to do some gas research from credible sources and see what the experts have to say on the field.

In my experience, if you don't let your gas sit around for a long time then anything will work, ethanol or not. If you really want to avoid ethanol then go with the 93 octane non-ethanol fuel, that will not cause any issues in your bike.

One thing to check is that the 93 octane near you is in fact ethanol free. Some premium fuels actually have higher ethanol contents than the lower grade fuels, since adding more ethanol can be used to raise the octane rating.

[Deltarider]

Have to admit: 'one of the straightest and smoothest surfaces in the world' is in Nevada. Have a look:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24133410

[Bob Wessner]

Have to admit: 'one of the straightest and smoothest surfaces in the world' is in Nevada. Have a look:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24133410

Are you suggesting it was alcohol powered? 

[Deltarider]

He sure could use a beer after that. 
Question is: did he also break the law or is Nevada still the state that has no speed limit? 

[BobbyR]

Ok I did search before posting and half the posts were FOR 93 octane use, and about half were for ethanol is OK to use with a bit of Seafoam, or Techron, OR some people have used ethanol blends with no problems at all. So, if you wanna go OMG another post,  just skip over this post and go and eat your damn Popcorn!

Now you see why I said that. There is no consensus. never will be. Go fill up with the higher octane and adjust your timing and you will get some better performance at the very least.

[Stev-o]

Ok I did search before posting and half the posts were FOR 93 octane use, and about half were for ethanol is OK to use with a bit of Seafoam, or Techron, OR some people have used ethanol blends with no problems at all. So, if you wanna go OMG another post,  just skip over this post and go and eat your damn Popcorn!

Now you see why I said that. There is no consensus. never will be. Go fill up with the higher octane and adjust your timing and you will get some better performance at the very least.

I've used 87, 89 & 93 octane fuel in my bike and could never tell the difference, always runs great.

[78 k550]

Thanks for the replies guys. I did notice today that the local Shell station has 91 premium with no ethanol in it (no ethanol sticker above the price on the pump) think I will definitely be using this as my "new" fuel of choice.

I use 85 10 ethenol all day long for the  last 100,000 use what you got.
I would not waste the extra money on mid or premium.

Paul

[bjatwood]

Thanks for the replies guys. I did notice today that the local Shell station has 91 premium with no ethanol in it (no ethanol sticker above the price on the pump) think I will definitely be using this as my "new" fuel of choice.

I posted this AM that I would be using Shell's 91. So I have no idea where in the heck WWIII started coming into this post! I promise BobbyR I will not post a gas or oil thread question as long as I am on this planet!! And as a matter of fact I will be eating some delicious POPCORN tonight guys watching football and drinking some barley pops. Come on over and we can start a chat on "CHAIN LUBE" 

[ekpent]

We are all good here Batwood save the popcorn for a movie with your bestie, also the war is over    But I will agree with Stevo from the Great state of Texas that really my stock bike will eat up whatever gas I put in her,87 cheapo with the corn etho mostly ,sit all winter and still start back up in the spring. Am I the only one who does not have a big problem with this stuff ??

[Deltarider]

Now I come to think of it: don't both popcorn as well as ethanol derive from the same corn?

[Bob Wessner]

No, not really. Corn used for ethanol is regarded as field corn suitable for livestock feed at best. However it still diverts acreage from edible crops.

[oldschoolcarbs]

It's no longer as simple as pulling up to the pump and not having to worry about what comes after.

The stuff we put into our tanks these days is a blend of substances that merely happen to replicate, and in some cases poorly, the characteristics of what used to be called gasoline---which itself was a blend as well but contained LBP Naptha as its main component.

A look at the Tesoro msds reveals so much variability to the recipe that it's anyone's guess what you're getting this week.

TSO (Tesoro) Refinery MSDS

SECTION 3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS

Component    Weight %

Gasoline, natural;
(LBP naphtha) 10 - 30%
Toluene 10 - 30%
Xylene 10 - 30%
Ethanol; ethyl alcohol 10%
Trimethylbenzene 1 - 5%
Isopentane; 2-methylbutane 1 - 5%
Naphthalene 1 - 5%
Benzene 0.1 - 4.7%
Pentane 1 - 5%
Cyclohexane 1 - 5%
Ethylbenzene    1 - 5%
Butane 1 - 20%
Heptane [and isomers] 0.5 - 0.75%
N-hexane 0.5 - 0.75%

Note that the only component that's always fixed at the same % weight is ethanol!

This is the result of government price supports (Corporate welfare? Say it isn't so!) to corn growers so chemistry/engineering has nothing to do with it. http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/a/The-Federal-Ethanol-Subsidy.htm

It's about money pure and simple.

A couple of senators submitted a bill to hand the issue of ethanol over to the national science foundation for actual study, but it was killed in the republican dominated house.

Here's some more general info: Bad news at the pump for all of us.
OSC

[Bob Wessner]

Just a reminder about the forum rules that prohibit political commentary and postings.

[Stev-o]

Is fuel the new oil thread?!

[crazypj]

The problem with using 93 octane is it burns slower than 87 so unless you bump compression there is a possibility the exhaust valves can overheat

I've never heard of this except in this forum. Not in my entire life. Can't help having the feeling that if it was true, I should have heard of it before through other media. I mean, at least once.
BTW, over the last past 34 years, I've run both regular and premium gasoline and have never experienced this 'slow burning'
Deal.

 I'm pretty sure the majority will never experience problems as they just don't use high enough rpm, but, if you are operating close to or in the red zone on tach you will get first heated up head pipes then pitted and eventually burned valves
I've replaced too many for people who thought they were 'road racers' so used higher octane without any other modifications
As everything is was as good as possible settings wise (including increasing exhaust valve clearances to allow more seating time ) I can't think of any other reason other than the fuel used?
 
 It's more of an issue with smaller motors than the 750 or big bore conversions,

[KJ790]

Octane rating and burn rate are two different variables. There are high octane fuels that burn faster than 87 pump gas, and there are high octane fuels that burn slower than 87 pump gas. It is the same thing as saying that people who can lift heavy objects run slower than people who can't lift heavy objects. There are plenty of people who can out lift and out run me 

Burning up exhaust valves has to do more with the temperature of combustion rather than the length of combustion. Some fuels (especially ones with higher oxygen levels) will burn leaner than others. If the jetting is not adjusted then you will end up with a hotter combustion that will cause problems in the long run. In general you will not see anything like this simply going from 87 pump gas to 93 pump gas though, you would need to jump to a much more exotic fuel.

[70CB750]

Is fuel the new oil thread?!

Looks like it

I consider it funny, that Texas does not sell pure gas 

In our area further you are from the great dark vortex (DC - better is your chance to find fuel sans ethanol.

[bjatwood]

Is fuel the new oil thread?!

I believe it is too!
I did put some 91 in the bike yesterday afternoon. Bike felt real strong when I used lots of right hand twisting.... Must be an acceleration thing...

[metalmechanix3]

Try Startron Enzyme fuel treatment for water separation from fuel with ethanol and more. check out site startron.com for all info. Used in my bikes and have had no ethanol related issues.