Author Topic: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai  (Read 4623 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GroovieGhoulie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,753
  • I have to return some videotapes.
Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« on: August 16, 2006, 04:01:52 PM »
My dad is all pissy that I don't have a full-face and wants me to get one.  He keeps pushing Shoei because a friend of his that rides says they're the best and they have the best warranty, etc, etc.

I like Arai because of the positioning of the head vents will allow me to put Moon Eyes on the Forehead of the helmet, whereas it seems that top-of-the-line Shoei helmets have top vents that would get in the way of the Moon Eyes.  Yuck.

Is there a REAL difference in protection?  I have heard that they are both so good that there isn't a dime's worth of difference between them.

However, he thinks I'm stupid for not wanting a wild-colored helmet and that unless I get the Top of the Line (with silly graphics) Shoei (read: most expensive), I'm going to die horribly.

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2006, 04:05:14 PM »
What are moon eyes? A GHOF wants to know.  ;D
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline GroovieGhoulie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,753
  • I have to return some videotapes.
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2006, 04:08:54 PM »
What are moon eyes? A GHOF wants to know.  ;D

This is my helmet now:



The eyes are Moon Eyes.  It's distinctive to me and has realy given me an "identity" when I ride.  People at work and my friends all love the helmet and use it to know I'm coming from a long ways off..  It IS my personality.

I am trying to replicate that in a fullface helmet.  Buy a red helmet and some Moon Eye stickers to jam on the front.  Problem?  Shoei has vents there and Arai doesn't make a solid-Red helmet!!!  DAMMIT!!!  Also, it seems that helmet makers put their logo right on the front, which ruins the whole look of what I'm trying to do here.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 04:10:57 PM by GroovieGhoulie »

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2006, 04:10:09 PM »
OK, thanks, pretty much describes them.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline nickjtc

  • I was numero dieci
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Yamaha XT500 'Gromit'
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2006, 04:23:25 PM »
As long as a helmet meets the standard you want it to (DOT, Snell or whatever) then it's more a question of a) what fits your head and 2) how much do you want to spend.

Arai helmets come in small variations of inner shell shape, depending on which market they are being sold in, since human heads vary by ethnicity. Feedback I have received from friends who wear them is that you either have an Arai shaped head or you don't. Each helmet is apparently virtually hand made using the best components, so you pay a premium.

I have had a couple of Shoei helmets, a RF800 and a Syncrotec. To my untrained eye they looked as well made as the Arais of my friends, and for me they worked really well for fit, quietness and long term durability. They are still premium helmets though.

I always wore Bell in the swinging '70's and have had one of the 'new' generation of Bell helmets for the last two seasons. It has all the features of a higher end helmet (no-tool faceshield removal; removable guts for cleaning) but at lower cost. The lower cost is apparent in the build quality however.

IMHO the difference in $$ between a solid coloured helmet and one with fancy graphics is best spent on something useful like a heated vest or heated grips...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 08:31:20 PM by nickjtc »
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

Offline Jeff

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 452
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2006, 07:35:14 PM »
As long as a helmet meets the standard you want it to (DOT, Snell or whatever) then it's more a question of a) what fits your head and 2) how much do you want to spend.

Arai helmets come in small variations of inner shell shape, depending on which market they are being sold in, since human heads vary by ethnicity. Feedback I have received from friends who wear them is that you either have an Arai shaped head or you don't. Each helmet is apparently virtually hand made using the best components, so you pay a premium.


In my opinion, the myth of Arai heads or not is just that, a myth. I nearly guarantee that there's an Arai to fit your melon. In the US, there are three Arai head shapes: long oval, round, and in between. You just need to find the one that's right for you. For me, when I wore an Arai, I first had an improperly fitted Quantum (round). Then I was fitted, and was told to try a Signet GT (long oval). It fit wonderfully. I then replaced it when it was time with another one. The Signet has since been replaced by the Profile model. The Astral is the in between shape. Arais are VERY nice helmets. They are very pricey though, and can only be purchased through dealers... no mail order. They do that so you buy a helmet that fits.

Shoei has helmets in various shapes as well. The RF series are roundish and fit my head poorly. You may have a round head, so it may fit you. The pricey and very nice X-11 are long oval, but not as long as the Arai Profile. These were close to fitting my head, but not quite right. The Shoei TZ-R is long oval, and fit me perfectly. It's a comfy helmet, and mine, being flat black was a bargain compared to the Arais and the X-11 at under $300. The downside is the interior isn't completely removable.

My biggest recommendation is to go to a shop and try alot of helmets on. Walk around the shop in them... get a feel for them. Sometimes lids will feel good at the beginning, then you'll get a headache after 5-10 minutes. They aren't fitting right. Measure the circumference of your head, above your ears and about an inch above your eyebrows. That way you'll know what size to try. Don't just buy another size larger if your suggested size doesn't fit right. That means it's not the right shape, and if you go up a size, the helmet will move at speed, be really windy and just plain annoying. Some people will suggest compressing the foam at your forehead with a spoon to get a helmet to fit right. Don't do that. You'll be compressing the foam that's supposed to take the impact, rendering it less effective and your head will take the forces instead.

FWIW, I bought a Shoei instead of another Arai because we don't sell Arais where I work, but we do sell Shoei. If we sold Arai I probably would've bought another.... but I'm not 100% sure.

If my long winded drawn out reply isn't enough (sorry, I like talking about helmets), be sure to read this article from Motorcyclist Mag. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/index.html. It's a good one.

Hope this all helps.
Jeff

Offline nickjtc

  • I was numero dieci
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Yamaha XT500 'Gromit'
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2006, 08:38:41 PM »
Quote
My biggest recommendation is to go to a shop and try alot of helmets on. Walk around the shop in them... get a feel for them.
Quote

I wish everyone would do that, then as you say, they would find a helmet that will fit comfortably. I've lost count of the number of times I worked with students who used the "I cannot find a full face helmet to fit, therefore I'll stick with my ashtray/beanie" argument for not trying. Usually cruiser riders, who preferred to ride open faced anyway.
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

Offline Uncle Ernie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,613
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2006, 08:41:29 PM »
All helmets will protect your head anymore. The main thing is fit.  I have had an Arai for many years now, but I just found out a Z1 fits just as well and costs about half as much.

Those brand stickers are just that, and you can get a fingernail or knife edge and peel them right off.  My helmet now says it's made by Rubbermaid.  (I wear a Davida most of the time, though)
Dude- your 8 layers are showing!

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2006, 09:02:26 PM »
Quote
My helmet now says it's made by Rubbermaid.

 ;D
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline angeldeville

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 400
  • You meet the nicest people on a Honda!
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2006, 10:08:47 PM »
I had a Shoei, RF2000 way back when and it was the best fitting helmet I found at the time, (then it got stolen). I then purchased another full face(forget the brand) because it fit better than the others at the several shops I went to.

on my last helmet purchase I was looking for a 3/4 helmet and was fully intending to spend $200+ on a Shoei, but I tried a Scorpion, and it fit me just as well, if not better than the Shoei, and it had a few features I liked better, and it was 80-$100 less.

The full face I liked the most was an HJC.

I tend to spend the $$$ when safety is concerned, I'd like to try a Davidia because they are cool, but I'd hate to mail order a helmet and then not have it fit correctly.
76' cb750f custom
69' cb750 sandcast
69' CT90
Amen Saviour 750 Chopper frame
and enough parts to build about 6-7 more bikes

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2006, 11:12:55 PM »
get dad to spring for the helmet...or pitch in at least half - or pay half and get an HJC (they work - ask me how i know)

i will chime in with everyone else and say this: go to a store that has a wide variety of styles and makers and spend a couple of hrs trying them on - even the high-end helmets will have goofy stuff like, sqeezes your jaw, or compresses your forehead or, blah,blah,blah...

fit is it.
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Offline mrbreeze

  • Not your average
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,902
  • Shut up when you're talkin' to me!!
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 02:01:45 AM »
Damn Bob....you don't remember the moon eyes from the 60's??????
MEMBER # 257
Fool me once..shame on you. Fool me twice..I'm kickin' your a$$......

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2006, 04:04:59 AM »
Damn Bob....you don't remember the moon eyes from the 60's??????

You'd be surprised what I have forgotten..then again, maybe not.  ;D
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline hopterfixer

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 520
    • My flickr Gallery->
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2006, 04:45:53 AM »
I wear a plain jane white Arai Astral, it is the only helmet that really fits.  I describe it as angels hugging my head.  You can only get an Arai at an approved Arai dealer, sort of.  I got last years model Astral off the Bay of E, new, for half of the MSRP.  I must have tried on 30 helmets before I found this one, but I love it.  As far as noise goes, I always wear earplugs.   Good Luck.

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,491
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2006, 07:07:44 AM »
What are moon eyes? A GHOF wants to know.  ;D

This is my helmet now:



The eyes are Moon Eyes.  It's distinctive to me and has realy given me an "identity" when I ride.  People at work and my friends all love the helmet and use it to know I'm coming from a long ways off..  It IS my personality.

I am trying to replicate that in a fullface helmet.  Buy a red helmet and some Moon Eye stickers to jam on the front.  Problem?  Shoei has vents there and Arai doesn't make a solid-Red helmet!!!  DAMMIT!!!  Also, it seems that helmet makers put their logo right on the front, which ruins the whole look of what I'm trying to do here.
cool ass helmet,i love it.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Jeff

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 452
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2006, 07:39:47 AM »
Oh yeah, just remember that graphics won't save your head. So a white one is just as protective as a flashy one. And any DOT approved helmet will protect you. When you pay for a higher priced brand, you pay for build quality, comfort, venting, and the like.

Jeff

Offline nickjtc

  • I was numero dieci
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Yamaha XT500 'Gromit'
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2006, 08:18:30 AM »
....and remember that in 1 out of 3 get-offs it is the lower face/jaw which hits the ground first.
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

Offline Jeff

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 452
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2006, 08:20:12 AM »
....and remember that in 1 out of 3 get-offs it is the lower face/jaw which hits the ground first.

You can include me in that statistic.
Jeff

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2006, 08:28:46 AM »
and what were you wearing at the time?

i'm in the 60% group... :P
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Offline Jeff

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 452
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2006, 09:27:32 AM »
I was wearing a Shoei RF200. If I didn't have a helmet on I think I'd be dead or a vegetable.

Poor communication between a buddy and I, compounded by those damn mini turn signals that are impossible to see.

Jeff

Offline GroovieGhoulie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,753
  • I have to return some videotapes.
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2006, 10:09:48 AM »
get dad to spring for the helmet...

That's pretty much happening.  Since it's his money, I'm gonna go top of the line.


Regarding the graphics and such, he says that the wild "Biker Boyz" graphics make the rider more visible.  I say that it's the reflective paint, which most non-matte helmets should have now anyway.

I don't want the wild graphics because I think it doesn't fit with the style of the old machinery and I just plain don't like it.  So he calls me stupid and that's that.

I'm going to look at the Shoeis and Arais and pick one I like best.  I just WISH Shoei didn't have those stupid vents RIGHT on the forehead.

Offline Klark Kent

  • You are in serious trouble if you think I'm an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration don't fail me now
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2006, 10:23:25 AM »
Arai was a custom hat maker a long time ago.  his experience led to his discovery of the three different head types offered. 

Arai's intermediate oval fit me so well that i thought the helmet was too loose.  dude assured me it was pulling on my cheeks and stuff so its fine, but the difference in fit and feel was remarkable.  After looking at this years test results (DOT) i saw shoei had dropped to third, below arai and now scorpion too, so I was trying on the scorpions and didnt like the feel of the inside.  the icon felt more comfy- also more pricey and not in the top three.  so i buckled and asked dude to fit me for a bottom of the line ara (still $400) it WAS twice as comfortable as the scorpion at least and offered better protection according to the DOT.  so i called my mother who has wanted nothing to do with me riding a motorcycle and asked her if i should go with the scorpion or the arai. in seconds she offered to reimburse the difference.  ($220)  The ventilation is awesome and you really do forget you are wearing it until you stop and want to lift the visor to allow more air in.

So i recommend the arai.  and i also recommend calling someone that cares about your head and may have some money to contribute.

-KK
-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline nickjtc

  • I was numero dieci
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Yamaha XT500 'Gromit'
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2006, 10:27:09 AM »
Quote
Regarding the graphics and such, he says that the wild "Biker Boyz" graphics make the rider more visible.  I say that it's the reflective paint, which most non-matte helmets should have now anyway.
Quote

Go to your local automotive/hardware store and buy a length of 3M self adhesive reflective tape. It comes in several colours. You can then gussy up the helmet to your hearts desire for way less than the extra cost of graphics, and make yourself more conspicuous at the same time.
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

Offline Jeff

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 452
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2006, 10:31:22 AM »
It is without question harder to see a black helmet than a multi colored flash lid. BUT, if you want to go for visibility alone, then you want a yellow helmet. Yellow can be seen for a long way - that's why school busses are yellow and why fire trucks are going from red to that lime yellow/green color.

Jeff

Offline nickjtc

  • I was numero dieci
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Yamaha XT500 'Gromit'
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2006, 10:45:45 AM »
It is without question harder to see a black helmet than a multi colored flash lid. BUT, if you want to go for visibility alone, then you want a yellow helmet. Yellow can be seen for a long way - that's why school busses are yellow and why fire trucks are going from red to that lime yellow/green color.
Jeff

Exactly. Yellow is in the middle of the visual spectrum and is therefore the colour that our eyes are the most sensistive to.
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,491
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2006, 11:53:25 AM »
jeff,nothin personal brother,but i can see by your avatar you took one hell of a lick on your face in that wreck,glad the rest of you is ok. ;D
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Jeff

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 452
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2006, 11:56:24 AM »
Just imagine how difficult it is to get all of that beautiful hair in a helmet! But then, the face is why I wear a mask when I wrestle.


eldar

  • Guest
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2006, 11:58:55 AM »
Well I didnt get a yellow lid but I did get a silver. Still pretty visable in the day and VERY easy to see at night. yellow is not that good at night unless it has reflectivity added. Silver is naturally reflective.

I think the wild graphics actually make a helmet blend in BETTER. So many different colors out in the world that things can get muddled.

Offline StevieMac

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2006, 11:59:04 AM »
Also keep in mind that a lighter colored helmet will be cooler when it's hot out..
72 CB500 Cafe
78 CB750 Chopper

Gallery: http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/StevieMac/

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2006, 12:02:20 PM »
THATS for sure! I am glad I have a silver helmet with the heat we all had this summer.

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,491
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2006, 01:07:28 PM »
Just imagine how difficult it is to get all of that beautiful hair in a helmet! But then, the face is why I wear a mask when I wrestle.


yea,i can understand that.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline angeldeville

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 400
  • You meet the nicest people on a Honda!
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2006, 10:04:20 PM »
somebody here said "Silver is the new Flat Black" all the cool kids are wearing it, as seen by this months BOTM,

I went with silver beacuse i have a few different colors of bikes and need something to go with them all.

this is my Scorpion, fits my round head pretty well.
76' cb750f custom
69' cb750 sandcast
69' CT90
Amen Saviour 750 Chopper frame
and enough parts to build about 6-7 more bikes

Offline mrbreeze

  • Not your average
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,902
  • Shut up when you're talkin' to me!!
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2006, 10:17:48 PM »
Yeah...I wear the old black skid lid and thought my head was gonna burst into flames last month when we had a 10 day heat wave (3 days in a row...111 degrees). I will probably buy a cheap #$%* full face Bell for winter riding....can be had for around $125.I had a full Arai afew years back but sold it to a guy that needed it more than me at the time.
MEMBER # 257
Fool me once..shame on you. Fool me twice..I'm kickin' your a$$......

Offline nickjtc

  • I was numero dieci
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Yamaha XT500 'Gromit'
Re: Helmets: Shoei v. Arai
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2006, 08:19:53 AM »
I will probably buy a cheap #$%* full face Bell for winter riding....can be had for around $125.

You'll enjoy the Bell. Nice features at a nice price. I've ridden about 20,000km in mine and love it.
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."