Topic: CB 836cc f1 turbo - spoked kickstart street turbo

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I was curious what kind of power it makes for some of the same reasons - what the motor could safely sustain without failing. That's quite a bit of power for a forty year old air cooled motor.

[Ilja]

Small how-to on how to install a full electrical ignition from kawasaki (or other bikes with IC Igniter)

So, I have this lightly  modified cb836 turbo which I recently upgraded with an electronic ignition.

I thought about the different options on ignition systems which basically are:
1- Dyna S (mechanical advance)
2- Pamco (mechanical advance)
3- Dyna 2000 (programmable, rev limiter, vacuum referenced advance so awesome but quite expensive)
4- Cycle x (and other) optical ignition.

Basically you get a stone-age system OR you pay 500 euro's...

So, here's a small how-to on how to DIY for cheap with great result. You get a fully electrical system with electrical advance and depending on buidling year, also rev-limiter for a decent price:

1 - Buy a decent 80ies/90ies OEM *COUCHkawasakiCOUCH  * ignition system on ebay with IC Igniter and the plug with the wires.
2 - Download wiring diagram of the bike which it came from
3 - Remove your points assembly
4 - Disassemble the CB mechanic advance mechanism
5 - Turn down the main shaft of the CB mechanic advance mechanism
6 - Fit the new rotor over the modified shaft of the CB mechanic advance mechanism (might need boring to 10mm of mounting hole) and line up the timing marks and at the right dept, so it lines up with the ignition pickups.
7 - Tack-weld it in place, it doesnt require a full welding...
8 - Mount the pickup base plate. The bottom 2 bolt positions will probably align, the top one requires some drilling into the baseplate as the hole needs to be 5mm to the side. The timing should already be perfectly fine on the F mark like this. 
9 - Connect the IC Igniter to the pickups (4 wires, standard plug). Connect the other wires...
-Red is power for both coils, connect it to the coils and (best option) 12V relay or other switched source
-Black wire & Green wire is most of the time signal wires to the coils.
-Black/Yellow = Ground, battery negative
-Black/White = Safety (pivot.. etc) Connect also to Ground, battery negative

10 - Start the bike and hear it purr nicely with your cheap, fully electrical ignition! 
Optional 11 - Check with timing lights if your ride fires at F and advances according to marks

 

[Ilja]

So, I took the bike out for some more test drives.

The bike doesn't smoke anymore! Yay... the 1mm restrictor and vent line helped!
Bike runs awesome with the electronic ignition! Smooth, al the way from idle to top! 
I have two IC Igniters.... one for my GPZ 750 turbo which is 30 degrees and a gpz550 one which is 35 degrees of advance.

Since I first didnt have the turbo one and drove the GPZ turbo with the 35degree version without issues, I installed this one on the Honda. I heard some minimal pinging (a few ticks) again around 4-5k rpm when accelerating WOT from idle to red. So I then switched and installed the GPZ IC Igniter of 30 degrees and all is well. I've ordered a second GPZ 30 degree IC Igniter on a french website, so I can put that back on my GPZ 750 turbo.
My gpz 750 turbo is a little bit louder so I'm thinking now if it DID ping.... I might have never heard the pinging.. 

I had this small issue with the breather lines and the honda catch can. I connected the rear vent of the engine with the bottom connector on the catch can, the middle catch can connector to the oil tank lower vent tube and left the upper catch can connector as well as the upper connection of the oil tank, completely open. Valve cover has a small filter.

After driving hard yesterday evening I had oil all over my rear swingarm and a bit on the rear tire.
I think I made a mistake and need to connect the rear of the engine to the LOWER spigot of the oil tank directly... hopefully it won't blow oil around after that.. bad for the environment lol! 

Snow this weekend... which sucks as I want to drive the bike!

[Ilja]

Small winter-update!

I can't drive the bike in December, Januari and Februari due to regulations here that have changed for classic cars and motorbikes between 25-40yrs. (they want to demotivate riding them on a regular basis)

Last time i rode, I STILL had some minor pinging issues at only 0.7 bar. I then added another spring to the wastegate keeping it at 0.5 bar, and all is well at that pressure. BUT it takes away the fun, feels like a fast stock cb750 now.

Then I found out the turbo is blowing oil mist... which lowers octane and causes pinging at very low boost levels.
What I think happens is that crankcase pressure increases when boost kicks in, which keeps the oil from gravity draining and causes it to back up in the pipe flooding the turbo seals (which are not more than a piston ring).

Crankcase breather is already very small on these engines so I plan to add another one on the top cap of the cam-cover.
Next to that, I will add a drip tank with a vent underneath the turbo and if I still get oil blown around I'll add a scavenge pump on the end of the crankshaft.

Other modifications that I'm working on is:
-Installing a 17" front rim (found a VFR rim, which is the same as CBR but 17" instead of 16"!)
-Getting the rims coated in gold / magnesium flavor.. 
-Rear springs powdercoated yellow
-Installed some front fork gaitors
-Fabbing up 40mm fork leg extensions.. bike is to low in front.
-Installed a mx handlebar
-Installing a breather catch-can.

...Should have a reliable fancy ride once spring kicks in.. 

[MessnerMoto]

Small how-to on how to install a full electrical ignition from kawasaki (or other bikes with IC Igniter)

So, I have this lightly  modified cb836 turbo which I recently upgraded with an electronic ignition.

I thought about the different options on ignition systems which basically are:
1- Dyna S (mechanical advance)
2- Pamco (mechanical advance)
3- Dyna 2000 (programmable, rev limiter, vacuum referenced advance so awesome but quite expensive)
4- Cycle x (and other) optical ignition.

Basically you get a stone-age system OR you pay 500 euro's...

So, here's a small how-to on how to DIY for cheap with great result. You get a fully electrical system with electrical advance and depending on buidling year, also rev-limiter for a decent price:

1 - Buy a decent 80ies/90ies OEM *COUCHkawasakiCOUCH  * ignition system on ebay with IC Igniter and the plug with the wires.
2 - Download wiring diagram of the bike which it came from
3 - Remove your points assembly
4 - Disassemble the CB mechanic advance mechanism
5 - Turn down the main shaft of the CB mechanic advance mechanism
6 - Fit the new rotor over the modified shaft of the CB mechanic advance mechanism (might need boring to 10mm of mounting hole) and line up the timing marks and at the right dept, so it lines up with the ignition pickups.
7 - Tack-weld it in place, it doesnt require a full welding...
8 - Mount the pickup base plate. The bottom 2 bolt positions will probably align, the top one requires some drilling into the baseplate as the hole needs to be 5mm to the side. The timing should already be perfectly fine on the F mark like this. 
9 - Connect the IC Igniter to the pickups (4 wires, standard plug). Connect the other wires...
-Red is power for both coils, connect it to the coils and (best option) 12V relay or other switched source
-Black wire & Green wire is most of the time signal wires to the coils.
-Black/Yellow = Ground, battery negative
-Black/White = Safety (pivot.. etc) Connect also to Ground, battery negative

10 - Start the bike and hear it purr nicely with your cheap, fully electrical ignition! 
Optional 11 - Check with timing lights if your ride fires at F and advances according to marks

 

This is really great info. Thanks! Btw great build

[Ilja]

Thanks. I just added some pics to the post, noticed I forgot...

I've also added it to the how-to forum.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,153113.0.html

[70CB750]

Gotta love the farking EU, haha.

[Ilja]

Gotta love the farking EU, haha.

Mehh its not the EU, its local Dutch goverment, though EU are also #$%*ing up all sorts of freedoms.. (ABS, not tuning vehicles, etc.)

It's the dutch ex secretary of finance Weekers, the guy was fired just after he made the new rules for classics and destroyed a small economy.

Has to do with the road tax which you did not have to pay when your vehicle was 25yrs or older...
A lot of people ride around in these old Mercedes cars year round, without paying tax.

So they said these cars were impacting environment because of crappy emissions as a reason to charge tax, which is really something like 1500 euros a year for heavy diesel cars. Even more for old american cars on LPG (easily 2500-3000 euro road tax)

First they said it was "for the environment".. but then it was shown that the impact is something like 0.5% because its such a small group of vehicles.
Then they said they will continue with the new law because otherwise they would miss 150 million per year.

We showed with surveys that they will not make that money anyway because everybody will sell their old car and they will actually lose money because they will #$%* up everybodys savings (value of classic LPG and Diesel cars) and also a lot of parts sellers and garages

They still continued, and now the whole classic car and camper hobby is destroyed for everyone owning a LPG or Diesel classic car/van between 25 and 40yrs old.
Bikes also have to pay some tax but its not much. (also strange since who the hell rides a classic bike to work everyday)

Now the goverment found out that they did not make the money... they started asking some questions.
Well, no #$%* sherlocks! I hate these #$%*s who apperently can't think and calculate straight, #$%*ing up peoples hard earned money and hobby. 

[70CB750]

I see 

Sorry for hitting a sore point.

My country of origin is cca 900 km East from you - Czech Republic.  It always fascinates me, what kind of a EU regulation they have to live up to.  Like every vehicle has to carry first aid kit and every policeman that pulls you over has the right to check if the first aid kit is not expired.

Czech government is not innocent either, they have this idea that to create perfect society it only needs more laws and regulations.

[Ilja]

I see 

Sorry for hitting a sore point.

My country of origin is cca 900 km East from you - Czech Republic.  It always fascinates me, what kind of a EU regulation they have to live up to.  Like every vehicle has to carry first aid kit and every policeman that pulls you over has the right to check if the first aid kit is not expired.

Czech government is not innocent either, they have this idea that to create perfect society it only needs more laws and regulations.

I've visited Czech last year with the motorcycle and I loved the country!
Yes, especially the Netherlands has way too many rules.. but also way too many people on a small patch of land.
You even need to follow rules for the color of your roof and stuff.

I like it better when it's less regulated.. feels more free. This life over here sometimes feels like being part of a giant machine lol.

[70CB750]

Ilja, you would love Virginia - and there are states more free than us, too.

[Ilja]

Ilja, you would love Virginia - and there are states more free than us, too.

Yes I think I definitly would! I've been born in the wrong country.. :-(
I wouldnt mind making a change but it's kinda hard to leave the little family I have left. You need to help each other out and that's hard when I live on the other side of the world..

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Ilja, you need to change your forum settings! All those #$%*ing symbols take away from the true meaning in your commentary 

[Ilja]

Ilja, you need to change your forum settings! All those #$%*ing symbols take away from the true meaning in your commentary 

Lol! Is that possible?
Sorry, I was a bit frustrated about what they do with our tax money over here... financing idiots.. ;-)

I'll post some nice pictures of my freshly golden powdercoated rims soon to make up for it... ;-)

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Sure. Profile ; Look and layout ; leave uncensored. Then you can say #$%* if you are frustrated just don't use our favorite words against another member 

[Ilja]

#$%*ing hell it worked!! Awesome! 

[754]

F@+k....!!! Now I find out....

[Ilja]

F@+k....!!! Now I find out....

Relax.. you've only spend 299 days, 3 hours and 5 minutes of your life on the forum, and only did 19247 posts.
Oh and you also started just 584 new topics, so plenty of f@cking possibilities left!   

[Ilja]

Ohwjehh, fresh powder! 

I now have a 17" front rim instead of 16", which will raise the bike 1.25cm. Next to that I've extended the fork a little by fabbing a 2.5cm internal spacer and some extended fork caps. But....I think I can leave of the fork caps as 3.75cm extra is probably enough for raising the front.
Lol, spent the whole weekend behind the lathe for those caps, and now I probably don't need em...   
Might use the extended fork caps someday when fitting clipons. ;-)

Fresh tires coming up!

[sbeckman7]

Awesome build man!! And an entertaining thread to read 

[Ilja]

Got the new stuff fitted.. but I will need new front discs because of the new 17" rim.
And because of the new 39 rear sprocket (instead of 43) I will need an 18T offset sprocket (100 euro!) instead of 17T which I currently have installed. Chain is rubbing the swingarm too much now! 

Then again... one tooth up will probably mean only a few mm more in clearance at the front..but I can fit back the 43 (or go to 41-42) which will make it juuuuuussttt okay.

The new front fender needs some fitting and I lost the speedo cable going to the 17" front wheel. So I will need to fit an electric speed gauge inside my oem gauge somehow.. 

[Ilja]

Soo... I'm looking for an electronic speedo gauge. A new clock or one to build into the stock housing..
Tacho is okay, but may also be replaced if necessary as the current one with cable is not very precise..

Does anyone have any suggestions for those? I'm not good at finalizing details.. and will probably ride without speedo without help lol!

[RAZZ]

Hi

I know one who has a 20 mm offset 17t for sale in Denmark for aprox 30 euro, let me know if you are interrested.

I use this speedo/tacho from Louis

https://m.louis.eu/artikel/t-t-multifunction-instrument/10034806?list=149310981



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ilja]

Been driving the bike around a lot and so far has been great!
Gearing is 18:39 which makes it quite fast! Just cant take it over 0.5BAR as it starts pinging then. The turbo spools at 3500-4000 rpm so very responsive BUT a bit on the small side....

I've rebuilded another turbo ,Garrett Gt1752, from a Saab turbo which is a little bit bigger (bigger A/R rating of turbine housing) and more efficiënt up to 200hp. Will install it soon... hopefully I can run a bit more boost with that one without pinging.. 

[Ilja]

Well.... pretty much done.