Author Topic: CB 836cc f1 turbo - spoked kickstart street turbo  (Read 79529 times)

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Offline Mitchell

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #125 on: May 11, 2016, 06:44:53 AM »
Nice kaw dude that beast looks scary fast. With the water meth injection they say if you spray it pre turbo it makes the turbo spool faster because it dosent need to work as hard to compress the air. Yep intercooler helps alot with detonation as does water meth injection, also alot of people can advance there timing a good bit with the water methanol and keep detanation at bay. Down fall to water injection vs intercooler would be you need to keep the tank full of water meth and if your system failed you could destroy your motor.

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #126 on: May 11, 2016, 12:32:51 PM »
no,i  only did dyno work with the ic on there .
just do it .

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #127 on: May 23, 2016, 01:12:41 AM »
Ahh yess... did some more road driving, still going strong.  :P
Ordered parts to build a dual stage boost controller, so you can switch between stock wastegate spring pressure (0.5bar) and adjustable pre-set pressure with a switch on the handlebar..
(Consists of a 3/2 electrical controlled valve and a manual boost controller)

And this weekend on saturday the bike will go a dyno...  ;D ( just found out a dragrace fella nearby owns one in his shed..)

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #128 on: May 23, 2016, 04:42:54 AM »
Make sure he can check air/fuel
Keep it around 12.1
Good luck
Jim
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline Mitchell

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #129 on: May 23, 2016, 08:28:54 AM »
Im tuned in, really would love to see what she putin out at the back wheel.

Offline Mitchell

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #130 on: May 23, 2016, 08:30:37 AM »
Oh you should totally make a video too.

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #131 on: May 23, 2016, 10:06:33 AM »
I will try to make a video offcourse!!

The fuelling should be okay... its now tuned between 10.5 and 11 at WOT... on the rich side. (didn't have smaller mains then 124)
But, I also want to verify that with his A/F analysing system.

I'm also very curious about what it makes.. could be anything from 95 to 130 hp..  ;D
Hope it doesnt blow up.. but should be ok!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 10:08:54 AM by Ilja »

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #132 on: May 26, 2016, 05:12:12 AM »
do you have the ability to retard timing when boost kicks in?
Get your AF with out boost first. Then start adding boost and keeping an eye
On your AF at the dyno
Very important
I am still trying to get my carb jetted right
And the last jet change was changing to a 240 main

Jim
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #133 on: May 26, 2016, 03:30:34 PM »
do you have the ability to retard timing when boost kicks in?
Get your AF with out boost first. Then start adding boost and keeping an eye
On your AF at the dyno
Very important
I am still trying to get my carb jetted right
And the last jet change was changing to a 240 main

Jim

Nope, I have a stock gpz turbo ignition on the bike.
My a/f is already close to perfect.. carbs are almost jetted stock.. ☺ around 11.5 a/f all the way when on the throttle.
Keihin cvk 34mm carbs with kawasaki zephyr needles on stock position and 124 mains.
It needs 120ies... jetting is easy with this setup and the wideband gauge on the handlebar!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 12:16:42 AM by Ilja »

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #134 on: May 26, 2016, 04:16:58 PM »
Your pushing threw 4 carbs then?
Keep us posted please
Thanks
Jim
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #135 on: May 27, 2016, 12:20:40 AM »
Yes! Blowthrough setup!

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #136 on: May 27, 2016, 03:27:52 AM »
Advantages disadvantage ? Is one more for street or race
Probably old school versus new school
Yours and as well as all current turbo bikes
Are set up the way yours is

Still like the old way I guess
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #137 on: May 28, 2016, 05:16:26 AM »
Been on the dyno today, and the bike is still allright ... yay.
Installed the dual stage boost controller yesterday and as soon as I switched boost to +0.5 bar I started hearing this *pinging* again while driving... atleast thats what I thought.

Today on the dyno, we first did a few runs at stock wg pressure (0.45 bar according to the dynojet)...
Then I turned up the boost because I wanted to let the dyno guy hear the pinging...but well I didn't hear a thing!! So I did some pulls up to 0.71 bar.
Above 8k rpm it seems to stutter from being to rich or the ignition being to weak... so that needs looking into.

Max power was 110hp and 111Nm at 0.7 bar..
So, check out the graphs.

The comparison with the bmw SR1000r is also funny..  ;D :P
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 03:09:37 PM by Ilja »

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #138 on: May 28, 2016, 05:21:42 AM »
Some runs at lower pressures.

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #139 on: May 28, 2016, 05:25:57 AM »
Cb 836 turbo vs bmw sr1000r  8) Guess who has the most torque lol ;D
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 05:48:36 AM by Ilja »

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #140 on: May 29, 2016, 04:01:53 PM »
Looks like I cheered too soon, time to get my hands dirty again.

My headgasket (MLS) is leaking quite a bit on some places around the cylinder head..and I also get some oil leaks from the cam tower studs I think.

But worse, yesterday after driving and experimenting with higher boost levels and checking for detonation my bike blew some oil out of the oil tank breather.
It did the same thing last year during my initial runs when I tried 0.7-1 bar of boost...
.. but now it also breathes a lot through the breather hoses.  :(

Bike starts, runs fine and doesn't smoke... but something went bad, head gasket or worse case piston ring lands..
So time to check out the topend..and also do the frame mod.  :-X.
 
Oh well.. gives me a chance to improve the engine a bit.
The squish band is way off due to the decompression spacer/1.5mm gasket underneath the cylinders. A lot of people do it this way and say it doesnt matter, but I really regretted not cc'ing the head chambers, machining the chambers for low compression and setting quench band to 1-1.25mm after building the engine.
Right now my squish is something like 3mm... not good against detonation at all...moreso promoting it. It might even ping more then at stock compression with decent squish and without the spacer.

My GPZ turbo has the same flat top pistons and more or less the same head chamber, valves and spark plug arrangement, but has from factory a good squish of around 1.25mm. Those bikes are really ping-resistant and I have ran up to 1.5bar / 21psi on that engine(intercooled) on V-power fuel.

Also, I will fit the intercooler as it removes 70% of the heath generated by the hair dryer and make more power at the same time.  ;)
The rest of the bike is pretty much finished... everything works, tune is 95% right and chassis is done.. so hopefully its the final hurdle.. 

« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 02:37:09 PM by Ilja »

Offline Mitchell

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #141 on: May 30, 2016, 10:35:54 AM »
110hp wow thats doin it man. I hate to hear you gota tear it apart again. I run a cometic fiber head gasket, it has held up with no issues so far ( im about to tear it down again soon tho). You may be on to somthing with the quench i only run 8 psi i think thats around .5 bar and have never had any detnation evan with the timing retard not activated. I dont run any spacers or anything to lower the CR, also the pistons are stock 736cc k3 from what i understand a larger bore will detonate easier than a smaller bore so in your case i would think the quench is a very important piece of the puzzle.

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2016, 12:57:35 PM »
in case it helps i was at 85 bhp on the 400/4 with a 8.4:1 cr and 15 psi boost , at least that's when the clutch let go .lol. on 24 degrees fixed timing .
just do it .

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2016, 01:14:31 PM »
110hp wow thats doin it man. I hate to hear you gota tear it apart again. I run a cometic fiber head gasket, it has held up with no issues so far ( im about to tear it down again soon tho). You may be on to somthing with the quench i only run 8 psi i think thats around .5 bar and have never had any detnation evan with the timing retard not activated. I dont run any spacers or anything to lower the CR, also the pistons are stock 736cc k3 from what i understand a larger bore will detonate easier than a smaller bore so in your case i would think the quench is a very important piece of the puzzle.

Yehh, the machine shop who surfaced my head made a mess... the surface was very rough and grooved when I got it back (I'll post a picture of it later) and I think it blew to the engine studs..
For MLS you need a very smooth surface so I think thats why it blew.. I had a bad feeling about the head when I got it back and I shouldnt have accepted it.
In fact I almost never had anything done correctly in one go. Every single cylinder or crankshaft or whatever I measured afterwards I had to take back to the shops and have them redone/adjusted.

And yes I lowered compression because I wanted the engine to run 1 bar... I know that another guy with a cb turbo on this forum is also running 8psi on stock compression.
So yes I think the huge squish causes it to ping. Another lesson learned.. ;)

Anyways, normally people tend to avoid fiber gaskets for turbo's so I kinda followed that route, but if yours is holding up then thats great. It might not hold when you would run 1 bar or something but for 8psi its probably fine.

My bike has some more HP hidden because it kinda stopped at 8k because of the stuttering and was a tad too rich... I think if I can run 1 bar, run it up to red line and have the intercooler on there... we could be in for a surprise.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 01:20:55 PM by Ilja »

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2016, 02:27:17 PM »
Head surface as it came back from the machine shop at the time...

Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #145 on: May 30, 2016, 02:41:57 PM »
in case it helps i was at 85 bhp on the 400/4 with a 8.4:1 cr and 15 psi boost , at least that's when the clutch let go .lol. on 24 degrees fixed timing .

Thats a very good result for a 400! :)
What kind of turbo did you use?

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2016, 03:31:43 PM »
That head is like that because  it has been heated/ overheated too many times. The aluminum becomes soft, rather than cut, it smears, ask me how I know?  Haha.Lol.  Let's just say I do.It may can be ground. Gluck, Bill
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Offline Ilja

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2016, 03:38:30 PM »
That head is like that because  it has been heated/ overheated too many times. The aluminum becomes soft, rather than cut, it smears, ask me how I know?  Haha.Lol.  Let's just say I do.It may can be ground. Gluck, Bill

Hmmm could very well be the case....take note this was pre-turbo, but the engine was in a bike with a fairing around it so it might have been raced and run hot. 

The machine shop who did the work was a total mess, engine parts, piles of em and gasket kits on the FLOOR everywhere. I had to take the cylinders back after they bored them to 836cc because the bottom of the bores were 0.03mm smaller then the top of the bores. :(
So could also be that the guy used dull tooling or no coolant..
Next time I'm picking a shop that does high performance engines, thats for sure. :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 03:40:06 PM by Ilja »

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #148 on: May 30, 2016, 03:56:37 PM »
get your squish to 1mm or less, will make huge differenc ein detonation resitance

and yes, kawi 750 heads are very well designed! i improved mine by welding up the chamfer to flat so got a nice 7mm squish band all around at 0.8mm

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: CB 836cc TURBO ... and lots of other mods!
« Reply #149 on: May 30, 2016, 11:21:11 PM »
in case it helps i was at 85 bhp on the 400/4 with a 8.4:1 cr and 15 psi boost , at least that's when the clutch let go .lol. on 24 degrees fixed timing .

Thats a very good result for a 400! :)
What kind of turbo did you use?


i bought a brand new ihi rhb5 32mm turbo ,with a p5 turbine housing , made boost at 4800, the engine had a yosh 450 big bore in it ,ported head with guides cut back ,and stock cam ....slightly retarded due to me packing the cylinders up with base gaskets to lower the cr .

suck through on a mikuni cv carb from a xs 650 .


robert :)
just do it .