Author Topic: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel" (Read 280968 times)

riverfever · « **Reply #100 on:** November 20, 2013, 05:21:52 PM »

Just for grins I went out to start it up when I got home from work tonight. It was not happy. Hard to start but finally would but as soon as the choke was cracked open even slightly it died. Plenty of gas. Obviously, something is still not right. Bike will not start at all with the choke cracked open. Totally different than the video where it fired right up and I could walk away from it. Now I gotta really nurse it along and even then, most times it dies. Any ideas?

rb550four · « **Reply #101 on:** November 20, 2013, 07:17:05 PM »

I say back to the basics.
1 carbs are clean,we know that. Check fuel supply for stoppage or semi clog. Especially since there have been petcock issues be sure the flow is good. Do you have in line filters on? any sediment in them, any air? if there is air are they air locked? (won't totally fill with fuel. Did you re use old supply lines ? were they free of cut or crunchy little pieces?Did you blow them out?
2 Did you feel the pipes to see if there is a cold cylinder or 2? do they get spark? have you checked the caps to see if they are tight? The tank has been on and off a few times could you have unplugged the yellow blue or black and white. you did ground the coils right? ( they could be unplugged and hang in the plastic jacket. ) Or the blue or yellow could have dropped out by the foot brake(tail light actuator. if that isn't it try to static time it just to be sure both points are working. have you changed out the points and condensers? It could be time.
3 the last thing that I recall you touching was the ignition... stretched the wires, check connections and condition of the wires....You'll want to retrace your steps since the running video, maybe you touched or moved something out of place.
Should be something simple ....seemed to run decent in the video....Did you add bad fuel maybe?
Did you just put on air filters since the video...doesn't sound major mechanical so it's something minor... all in the tracking down. Patience , you'll find the issue.

riverfever · « **Reply #102 on:** November 20, 2013, 07:27:10 PM »

I do have inline filters. I don't see any sediment in them. I did think the line running to 2 of the carbs looked odd though. I used new line and it's clear but it had air in it. I'll get a picture of it.

All of the pipes are hot. I will check the wires to the coils but, to be honest, I was planning on upgrading the ignition system but I don't know what to use yet. I just thought it would be a good idea to upgrade to more modern stuff. Need help here.

rb550four · « **Reply #103 on:** November 20, 2013, 08:00:28 PM »

I have only upgraded a couple of my 550's and 1 500 to the dyna S electronic ignition, makes timing easier, didn't see much if any improvement in power so I didn't upgrade the rest of them.
I also haven t tried the Dyna coils either, though there has been much discussion on those items in these forums.
It's old school for me, don't mind a little more time to tune.
There has been recent discussion about inline filters not giving enough flow to the carbs because they make the line lay flat and there isn't enough downward force for decent flow. They do make 90 degree inlines.

goldarrow · « **Reply #104 on:** November 20, 2013, 08:24:31 PM »

Clean the tank real good. Fuel filter at the petcock is more than enough to keep sediment from clogging up the jets

riverfever · « **Reply #105 on:** November 21, 2013, 04:44:57 PM »

As much as I hate to admit this publicly, I actually think it was low on gas. There wasn't much in the tank last night and what was in there was on the right side. Tonight I put more in and it started up. It ran rough but it never died. Cylinders 1, 3, and 4 were hot but 2 was ice cold. I pulled the plug and checked for spark. While the motor ran on 3 cylinders there was no spark at #2. Then there was. Then there wasn't. Very inconsistent. I tried another plug and it produced constant spark. So I don't think I'm dealing with a coil issue or I would expect it to be bad regardless of the new plug. Reinstalled the plug and it fired up and right away I could tell it was running just like it did the other night. Perfectly. Now if I go WOT it wants to fall on it's face a bit but I suspect this is more typical of a 42 year old bike than anything else. So where do I go from here? I suppose I should install new plugs. These plugs don't have much mileage on them at all but when they were run it was with those nasty carbs. Should I start there?

rb550four · « **Reply #106 on:** November 21, 2013, 05:08:26 PM »

If it were me , I would do the plugs points and condensers,time it and sync it. You are still burning unevenly. That's where I would start . Quick question Are you charging ,is your battery up?
Low gas...it happens......and ... it's always funny!

riverfever · « **Reply #107 on:** November 21, 2013, 05:15:33 PM »

OK then the next question is...if I am going to replace points and condensers, should I replace those with a more modern item? If so, what? I have seen the set up from cb750ignition but I know nothing about this. I am planning on vacuum syncing too.

And yes...I did laugh when I peeked in the tank.

rb550four · « **Reply #108 on:** November 21, 2013, 05:50:51 PM »

Do you mean the stock 750 set up? What would the benefit be? Still points and condensers on a plate, same timing issues.
Electronic Dyna S set up? easy installation ,set 1 and 4 only, it'll set you back around $130, can't say that I have experienced any great horsepower gain over points system. Don't understand the hype, just seems more expensive to me.
This system only controls when it sparks, can't control air/fuel mix like a( brain) electronic fuel delivery system that can adjust everything to maximize engine output in any range of climate or conditions, spark is it's only job and it can do it, Kinda like Beta and VHS , two different ways to do the same thing. hard to say which was better.

riverfever · « **Reply #109 on:** November 21, 2013, 06:16:39 PM »

This is what I had seen but don't know if it's truly better than the stock stuff.

http://cb750ignition.com/

rb550four · « **Reply #110 on:** November 21, 2013, 06:52:52 PM »

This might be a good time for someone like Hondaman to pipe in or any members that have experience with the Pamco product line. Or PM Hondaman if there is no input here.

Have you searched for prior discussions about this subject? Perhaps , that's the reason folks haven't chimed in yet , they are reluctant to open a can of worms discussion that has been done before. maybe.

Just ran through some threads ,search pamco ignitions, lots of feedback , mainly positive, check it out , see what you think.

riverfever · « **Reply #111 on:** November 23, 2013, 09:41:48 AM »

Different question here:

I'm going to start the body work on the tank this week and I'm looking for advice on exactly where to apply body filler. What I really would like to know is does a thin coat get applied every where just to fill in small holes that I can't see as easily? I would think so and then sand it down just to where I can see the bare metal coming through again. Also what about the areas at the bottom of the tank where the welds are? Do I try to get that covered and just work slowly with the sanding? Thanks.

calj737 · « **Reply #112 on:** November 23, 2013, 10:21:25 AM »

Bondo depends upon the condition of the tank. Do you have any significant dents? If so, work those separately with filler, thin coats sanded between each. Then, when you feel close, skim coat the tank with surfacing for a consistent base layer below the paint. This will give you the best paint finish.

Pros say, good paint anyone can do, great paint is the result of great prep.

I'd surface the pinch welds at the bottom for best result too.

riverfever · « **Reply #113 on:** November 23, 2013, 10:35:28 AM »

Yes, there are some decent dents in this tank. So I'll look to work those first and try to get the whole thing back in shape and then start working the entire tank. Thank you.

rb550four · « **Reply #114 on:** November 23, 2013, 05:27:33 PM »

or
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php%3Ftopic%3D45978.0&sa=U&ei=mVWRUre8AqrisATerIDIBQ&ved=0CA8QFjAF&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNG75_ZvHg_IPBc5md9p8JVNgy0PlQ

What hockers choppers said then what calj737 said

calj737 · « **Reply #115 on:** November 24, 2013, 06:38:35 AM »

Some other advice about your body work...

It's often best to spray a light coat of primer BEFORE bondo. This will allow you you to see the dents and imperfections more clearly. Bare metal doesn't create enough of a shadow on the low spots, paint/primer will.

Lightly primer, then light coat of bondo. Sand well. If needed, bondo dents again, always using the least amount necessary and sanding off what is unneeded. Then, a surface/ski coat if you want, or sand with 400-600 grit before paint to smooth out base coat.

Paint 3-4 thin, light color coats. Then 2-4 light clear coats. Wet sand starting at 1000 grit to remove fish eyes and debris. Move up to 2000 grit to remove scratches. Then foam pad, buffing compound to remove swirls. Proceed with final wax.

Guaranteed to produce brilliant, smooth, deep shine and flawless paint (even if you do it in the garage or yard). Just don't over-sand with too many grits between. Move up in large steps to slowly remove the scratches prior step put in...

If you get hung up, PM me and I'll walk you thru each step, or send me the tank and I'll prep it for you (or even paint it) and send it back. Early Christmas present...

riverfever · « **Reply #116 on:** November 24, 2013, 11:59:39 AM »

Well yesterday I bought some supplies and this morning I started in on it. This is the first time I've ever done any body work so this should be interesting. I'm moving very slowly and building up the layers bit by bit. I started with what I thought would be easier dents. These pics are from about the third application in some areas.

This area by the right of the filler neck really freaks me out but I'm just going to keep adding layers.

calj737 · « **Reply #117 on:** November 24, 2013, 02:51:23 PM »

bear in mind, the right side of the filler neck is different due to lock mechanism on stock tank. Do as you are if you don't want the ridge to show, but else its normal to see it.

Great start, slowly, layer-by-layer. Remember, its just mud. It will sand off if you don't like it. And paint can be wiped off it is not going right. Re-paint it 2 or 3 times until you get it how you want it. Then, wet sand carefully and slowly, and buff it out. It will look like a pro paint job when you finish.

Color scheme?

riverfever · « **Reply #118 on:** November 24, 2013, 05:13:41 PM »

Thanks. It's been fun but slow. I feel kind of silly talking about paint schemes right now because the frame looks so ugly with it's paint job but I didn't wanna be that guy who just stripped this bike totally down and built it with no experience and no real direction. All along I told myself that if I could get it looking (overall) how I wanted, that maybe next winter I could pull the motor and paint the frame. Anyways...Hyundai, Jeep and Chevy are using a gray that is gloss but it's really creamy. I'd love to have the headlight bucket, tank, and side covers in that color. Then I'd like the knee dents to be done in gloss black (maybe a pinstripe around the knee dent). I want to use the vintage style tank sticker, and I have an idea in mind for pinstripes on the side covers. Then I want to bob the rear fender and use a smaller tail light and relocate the license plate.

I know prep is really critical but how much will a few coats of sandable primer hide? I keep feeling for transitions or high spots but I never know if I'm being too picky or what?

calj737 · « **Reply #119 on:** November 24, 2013, 07:16:55 PM »

Well, there's a sure fire way to tell if you surface is level: Guide Coat. Spray a sand able primer on and cure it. Then, shoot Guide Coat. Sand until the Guide Coat is gone. It hides in all dents and depressions and makes you sand level.

If you feel your dents are too deep, a little filler is required. But if you're close to level by touch, then
Guide Coat it. Perfection is that much closer....

riverfever · « **Reply #120 on:** November 25, 2013, 04:19:25 PM »

I got to work on the tank a lot today. Here are some progress pics.

After I took this picture I was a bit frightened.

This took a lot of time. I can safely say that I did not think this job would be this big of an undertaking. I hope I can make this turn out ok.

riverfever · « **Reply #121 on:** November 27, 2013, 12:35:40 PM »

Here's the progress after today.

I decided to grind all the filler from around the neck off. I just figured it was a larger area to show my lack of experience. I was able to do the other knee dent. I think I'm happy with how thing are going. Hoping someone can answer some questions. I have hammered down the visible metal inside the knee dents. Do I need to apply a thin layer of filler over those areas and sand it again or will sandable primer be able to cover the small dimples? Do I need to bother with putting filler on the rest of the bare metal as long as it is straight? I have a few more areas that need a bit more filler and then I think I'm ready for primer and Guide Coat to really see how bad it is but wanted to ask.

calj737 · « **Reply #122 on:** November 27, 2013, 01:28:07 PM »

Bondo work looks pretty good. I'd say you're ready for first coat of primer. Be prepared: the moment you add primer, every dimple and dent will suddenly become visible. That's OK. That's what you want at this stage. Your eye cannot detect the dimples and small dings against bare metal. The color reveals shadows at the bottom of dents. Use a good light at varying angles, put some painters tape as small splotches on the tank when you find them so you know where to add small amounts of filler.

Afterwards when you feel good about your stage, then Guide Cost for a final sanding prep before spray. Really good looking result for a first time effort! If your paint work comes out that well, you may have found a new vocation ;-)

riverfever · « **Reply #123 on:** November 27, 2013, 01:42:20 PM »

Here's a better shot of the bad side. It is still low where the badge would go so I'll put some more filler there and I also found a little ding at the bottom of the tank.

OK so I'll get more filler, sand paper and some primer tonight. Thank you.

calj737 · « **Reply #124 on:** November 27, 2013, 05:35:36 PM »

What color scheme you thinking about?

News:

Author Topic: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel" (Read 280968 times)