Author Topic: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"  (Read 279210 times)

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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2013, 02:18:16 PM »
I dig that 500T tank Matt. I'll keep my eyes open for one. In the mean time, I re-worked the shape I had just slightly. I'm in no hurry to do this so I'll sit and look at it for a month or so. Wheeled it out in the light to take a better look. I like it.

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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2013, 03:16:44 PM »
Someone local told me that, judging by that #4 carb and all the corrosion on the bowl side that it was caused by water and that I should take them all back apart again and have them bead blasted. Any thoughts on that?
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2013, 06:55:24 PM »
Will bead blasting repair the damage? Did you not get #4 clean enough? Are you planning on putting water in #4?
Sounds like an extra exercise to me , you already know to be looking for another set (or just #4)
Isn't any fix for #4, just an eventual replacement after it breaks.
  Bet you're pretty good at taking these carbs apart now, not scared of them anymore, right? Run them.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2013, 02:32:01 PM »
That's exactly what I thought when he said it Matt. One thing I'm learning with this project is that I need to trust my instincts a bit more when it comes to the mechanical side of things. I'm confident that all the carbs and passages are clean. Thanks for confirming. And yes...getting very good at breaking down the carbs. Not at all as difficult as I thought it would be. I'd actually like to do another set.
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2013, 02:49:05 PM »
Like to do another set? No worries, I'm sure that you'll have  chance at  another set.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2013, 03:01:58 PM »
It's like eating peanuts right?
                 That's crap,
                                    it ain't nothin like eating peanuts.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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hank3841

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2013, 08:17:53 PM »
Great job so far.  I've watched your experience with the carbs with great interest. I have a 75 CB550 and eventually will need to tear down the carbs.  I'm looking at a slow and gradual restoration process, not going the cafe route. Keep up the good work and should you decide to unload the original exhausts, keep me in mind.

Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2013, 11:21:35 AM »
Oh...that was you. Sorry I didn't get back to you. I really like the way the carpy exhaust looks and that's what I would like to go with. I will keep you in mind.
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hank3841

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2013, 01:43:39 PM »
Thanks!

Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2013, 06:21:57 PM »
The pieces I made seem like they'll be fine.



Carbs are finally back together. Now I just need to bench sync them. I posted a clarification question about that process here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131286.0



As much as I'd love to throw these on and start it up, I just don't want to run the bit of rust in the tank through these clean carbs so next up is to clean the tank and, while I'm at it, try putting in the knee dents.
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2013, 02:38:31 PM »
I've been gone at 6th grade camp (I'm a teacher not actually a student) for the last week so I haven't gotten much done but I did spend the morning in the garage today. Matt..I received the float. Thanks again. I appreciate it. This morning I started with making sure that all the butterfly valves were opening at the same time. This picture is before I got them adjusted.


Here I am bench syncing the carbs.


New inline filters and fuel line installed.


Back on the bike. I had a little bit of trouble getting the carbs to seat back into the rubber intake boots. I ended up using just a bit of WD-40 on the lip of each carb body and then used a ratchet strap to slowly persuade them into place. I ran new bowl vent lines. The clamps I had were too big so I have new ones on the way.


At this point, I was very tempted to start it up but I thought I'd exercise some patience and get the tank cleaned before doing so.


Ok so I have a question now. This is the petcock valve that is on the bike. I have no idea what it's from. I went to order a rebuild kit from DCC but I wasn't sure if the rebuild kit was actually for this valve. I did remove the valve from the tank and there is a wrapping around the tube that looks to be a filter of sorts. It is destroyed. I'm not too worried about that since I am running inline filters. The rebuild kit was $19 but I saw they had a new petcock valve for $20 so I just went ahead and ordered it. Here's mine.


This is the new petcock valve that I ordered from DCC.
http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-fuel-tank-parts-honda-cb450-fuel-petcock-18-4150.html

I saw that all the valves they had used an M16 thread to attach to the tank. I can't imagine that using this valve would be an issue but I thought I'd ask.

Lastly...I drained what gas was left in the tank and pulled the cap and latch off. The cap seal was trashed so I have a new one on the way. Right now I am trying to figure out the best order to do things to the tank. Here's where I'm at:

1. Go buy a hammer or two and sit there and think long and hard about whether or not I really want to try putting in knee dents. If so...do it.
2. Strip the tank with paint stripper (especially that area where the cap and latch are).
3. Seal off the openings and use drywall screws or an old bike chain to get as much of the rust out as possible. Blow it out.
4. Use something (I've seen various things used like vinegar or some toilet cleaner) to clean the inside of the tank. Use Naptha (still need to figure out where to get that at) to soak up any excess water. Blow it out. Use Mystery oil (need to find that) to coat the tank a bit. Then put some gas inside (maybe a gallon) to further coat it and keep it from flash rusting. Then install new seals, petcock, put it on the bike and....finally...start it up.

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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2013, 06:14:18 PM »
Q: did you match up the mounting nut size for the petcock?  DCC's looks smaller than yours in the picture and there have been a couple of sizes.
Hammers? you'll be getting some body shop hammers and not nail driving hammers right? Nail driving hammers will leave moosetracks , whereas a body hammer is convexed and allow you more control  during the denting (not heavy moosetracking)you can pick them up at autozone pretty cheap They also sell flat hammers and dollies , oh  and body putty,sandpaper and primer. And Marvel Mystery Oil.
 Lots of ways to get the rust out, I've done the works toilet bowl cleaner, it works, but the flash rust sucks. I know a guy who puts nuts /bolts in the tank,puts it in the dryer, stuffs pillows around it tightly so it don't get  banged up and runs it  no heat for an hour...no flash rust
Wanted to try electrolysis on the next rusty tank , from what I've seen about it,sounds like the way to go,and you won't have to shave your tank for a month!
It's a lot easier to put those carbs on if you put a hairdryer on the rubbers for a while to get them plyable, then push the carbs into them.
Naptha is the commercial (hardwarestore ) name for benzine, not good for you... hairdyer works to heat the tank and evaporate the water left behind, still can flash rust.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 06:35:54 PM by rb550four »
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2013, 07:19:00 PM »
I did not think to do that with the mounting nut size. I just took apart the petcock real quickly and will run to the store tomorrow and see if it's M16 or not. Here's an exploded view of my valve.



There really isn't much to this and I see nothing (valve or rebuild kit wise) on DCC's site that matches. The 2 o-rings look fine. It was not leaking to begin with. The only glaring issue I see is that the mesh filter is trashed. But I also don't see that piece coming on any of the DCC valves either. Should I even bother replacing this? I suppose while it's apart I could soak it in Chem Dip for a bit to clean it up? Maybe try to find some new o-rings?

As for the hammer...I am planning on using a rubber/plastic two headed model. I was also going to grind down the sides in more of a ball peen fashion to try to minimize the body work. 

And thank you for the input on Naptha and the Mystery oil. Always appreciate the help.
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2013, 09:47:46 AM »
I've heard of guys using a shaped block of wood as a dolly to be struck by the hammer and transferring the energy to the metal to form it without leaving the hammer marks directly on the metal .
 Aren't you planning to run inline filters anyways? Thought I read that here once before. So really , as long as you have no rust in the tank, and your petcock doesn't leak and shuts on and off properly, the inlines should take care of the  filtering.
I would be comfortable with that if it was mine, and if I wasn't I would add a  screen at the petcock but that's me, perhaps you could find one on Ebay or something.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2013, 10:51:19 AM »
Yes I am running inline filters. The only other issue with the current valve is that there is a little flat gasket (D shaped with 2 holes in it) inside that is gone. From what I can tell, it has to do with main fuel and reserve. Wondering if I couldn't make something to serve the same purpose or just not run a reserve and be aware of my mileage? I may try to do that and put it back together. Worst case...it will leak and then I'll go back to the drawing board.

I started in on the knee dents today. Here's one side. This one went smoothly.


Here's the view from behind. I'm pleased with how the dents came out. They seem uniform and I like the shape. I used a combination of a rubber hammer, a plastic one, and a small ball peen.


Here's the left side. This one was more interesting. I suspected there was a bit of filler near the badge area. The dent is made but now I'm not sure what to do from here.


My original plan was to use paint stripper but now I'm wondering if I should get the tank media blasted? When I look in the tank, I don't see any major dents so I don't think there's a ton of filler there. I guess I'm thinking that if the tank was bare metal then I might have to work in stages to get problem areas fixed and then leave the knee dents for last once I'm satisfied with the areas around them. Any advice?
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2013, 11:46:48 AM »
This is where a thin gasket is supposed to go inside the petcock valve. Mine was gone. So...this now makes the second thing on this bike that I have tried to Band Aid with bicycle inner tubes. I traced a circle with a similarly sized socket


I cut out the portion I wanted.


Then finally, I cut a D shape in it and made 2 holes. We'll see if it works. If it does then I'm going to make a section of inner tube a part of my tool kit.


At this point I figure, if I got through the carb rebuild, and if this works then the body work (which I've never done either) should be doable. It'll just be a lot of time. Right?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 11:48:37 AM by riverfever »
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2013, 12:34:42 PM »
Well...I think I'm screwed. I chipped away at the bondo to see how much was there and found 2 small holes in the tank. Not sure if it's worth messing with anymore at all now. If I get it media blasted then I'm maybe 40 in and then have to have the holes welded up. Not even sure if that can be done. Do I just look for a new tank?
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2013, 02:22:01 PM »
You don't give up that easy, I saw you take those carbs down twice! Don't be scared, it's a metal container with some pinholes in it,big deal. if they are small enough to fill with epoxy  do it , if they aren' t, flush the tank and have it brazed.  So you go to the home depot and pick up a cheap 5 inch disc sander , some 80 and 100 grit to strip the tank, some 120 to form the new body putty and some 220  to feather it out.
On the way home stop at auto zone  or equal , get a quart of bondo (not fibered) ,hardener, and body putty applicators,save yourself a trip and grab 2 sandable primer in  spray cans. Dust masks too. don't forgret a paintstick, it's a bich to get bondo off your screwdrivers.
   Finish a beer turn up the radio and put on your dust mask ,then 80 grit the paint down so you can just see metal and 100 grit it smooth and uniformly , easy so far right?
   Apply golf ball sized bondo onto a piece of cardboard,   have a paint stick nearby so you can mix about an inch+ of hardener (red or blue) to the putty and mix with the stick until uniform ,work quickly cause it sets up fast.
   Use the wide applicator for the large areas and the small one for the tight spots, apply bondo heavier and wider than where you would like to finish, it'll shrink a little bit and you'll be forming it when it's  dry (usually about 20 mins.) with a sander and 100 grit. Don't try to clean the plastic applicator, infact ,load it equally on both sides and bend it off the applicator in about 10 mins., it cleans up better that way. Bondo jumps out the can at you and gets all over everything if you're not used to it so wear gloves or your lady friend won't want you near her later. Still  sound easy right?
  Good ! Now Bondo cooled off and set up where the paper doesn't load up real quick, with 100 grit take the high spots down a little at a time , until you are NEAR the finish  height, don't worry about the width until you get to that point.
A couple of quick runs from side to side and front to back should smooth it out some but don' go to crazy with it .
 Change to 120 give it a really fast once over then switch to 220 and feather the whole repair smooth, when satisfied spray some primer on it. if you like the result and it's perfect 300 or 400 grit the tank and paint.
  If you suspect it needs more attention lightly sand it in a circular motion and the high ares will sand off/ the low areas will still have primer on it, make your repair until satisfied prime till happy fine grit it , and get some paint on it. Man, It's just that easy. Give it a whirl, don't be scared, have fun with this machine,when else will you be able to hone these skills? So have fun and be proud of your accomplishments. You're doing great so far.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2013, 03:20:36 PM »
Thanks for the pep talk. I appreciate it and the advice you've given me so far. The real reason I think I was disgusted was because I am the one who made the holes in the tank. I got carried away and wanted to see how much filler was there and was using a small screw driver to chip it away. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and am not real happy that I did that. But I THINK it can be fixed.



As you can see the holes aren't that big. There's a screw hole there for the tank badge for reference. To have them welded or brazed, would I need to have the tank taken down to bare metal? Is that a waste? I'd almost like to do that just to see what I'm working with and, if it' too ugly, try to pull some of the dents out. Can a body shop do brazing or welding of those holes? I'd sure like to stick with this tank because of the work I've done to it.

One more question...Is the gasket that I made necessary? I read something from Two Tired that hinted that it was more for running on reserve but I can't see how that works in my head. Would it be a bad idea to use the inner tube in that location? Worried that the fuel might brake it down and run debris through the freshly rebuilt carbs. Thanks again.
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2013, 06:23:21 PM »
 Body Shop? You were gonna go to a body shop?
If I was thinking of going to a body shop I would  ask what their plan for the tank would be, it's not just a body panel.
I would ask is it getting sanded  , bead blasted, soda blasted, Chemically stripped  or what just so you know the plan.
Since it will be stripped getting the dents out shouldn't be a problem they'll tack weld a pull on it ,slide hammer the dent out as far as they can and grind the pull off afterwards.
  These guys bondo every day (if you would rather spend your time not learning this trade , that's alright)
It wouldn't take long for them to get it in shape and They paint too. It's like, problem solved.
  I would be interested to see what a shop might charge.
What kind of paint did you want them to finish it with? Acrylic enamel? Base coat /clear coat? at least 3 coats of clear.  Have you picked a color or colors yet? What is the design, do you have a drawing, did you want pinstripe, what color , how wide,.... Be sure to know everything right to the smallest detail of what you want, but be careful not to over do it, no one likes a PITA.
   I like acrylic enamel for a couple of weeks, then it seems to dull.  base coat/ clear coat is my favorite It can stay shiny and crisp for a very long time.
   Just some Q's that you'll hear again, if you know the answers,time won't be wasted, the price can be figured on the spot and it's always better to have a customer who knows what he wants, then perhaps you'll get what you ask for.
Good luck with this.
  I don't know enough about the properties of inner tubes and today's gasoline to give you real advice but I do know that some rubber/plastic gaskets and parts have been having a rough time with today's fuel. Is there enough room in there to put tubes in the holes ,the reserve tube shorter than the "on" tube and maybe a screen? And again, inline filters will grab what everything else missed.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2013, 06:36:32 PM »
The only reason I was thinking about taking it to a body shop was to ask about having it media blasted to bare metal and then having them repair the holes. I want to try to learn to do the body work. I can weld but am nervous about welding on a gas tank even after washing it out thoroughly.

What is the purpose of that D shaped gasket?
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2013, 06:55:39 PM »
 If it makes you that nervous you're right let someone else do the welding. for sure.
Out of all the 550 projects I've had , I haven't run into the petcock problem that you have, usually when I can't find an answer after hitting the search bar , I would PM a member that I believe may have the answer, in this case Two tired may have an answer for you.
Members here are very knowledgeable and share  information readily, I cant help with this , can someone else chime in please.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2013, 07:03:33 PM »
We think alike. I had found a thread dealing with that one of a kind petcock valve and TT replied in it but it never really was finished. I sent him a PM a bit ago. Thanks.
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"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #73 on: November 04, 2013, 07:21:51 AM »
Well I talked to a place this morning that will blast the tank for me and quoted me 20-40 depending upon how much filler is on the tank so I'm going to have them do that. I also talked to a metal place that said they could weld up the holes for me. He said it was really hard to quote without seeing the tank (which I understand) but that it could possibly be upwards of 150. Does that seem high? Now I'm back to wondering if I should plug the tank up and let water run in it for several hours and then blow it all out and dry it real good and try to weld it myself but I've read some real horror stories about that going badly.
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Offline rb550four

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2013, 02:46:23 PM »
I would  hot soapy  water it  with Dawn dishwashing liquid, a couple of times. Dawn encapsulates petroleum products so it can be rinsed away.  Be ready for flash rust. That's what I would do anyways.
 If anyone else knows a better way to get gas fumes out of a tank I would be interested too.
Maybe 150 isn't bad as long as he cleans the tank or at least fill it with water first or what ever , just as long as horror stories don't happen to you.
Probably worth the money not to worry about a blow up, the house on fire or become horribly disfigured and end up living in a church steeple or something  like that.
  There is no shame in sending work out you know.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
  550 Snowbike -Somebody had to do it.
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