Author Topic: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"  (Read 289324 times)

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Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1700 on: November 24, 2017, 07:25:15 PM »
If it was a MLS gasket Hylomar or any other stuff other than a light coat of the copper spray adhesive, but I do not like to use that.  The MLS gaskets have a special construction and for proper sealing they should be applied to clean metal sufaces on the head and cylinders.  You would use a tiny bit of hylomar designed for high temp around the orings and the gasket.  The cb750 have oil orifice ports that can be  blocked/clogged by rtv or hylomar. I have not torn my head off to know if the 550 also has those oil orifice ports in the dowel like setup... I have not went below the top cover before I ran into motor damage from the eccentric wear. The rebuild halted until I can find  a 77-78 cover I can afford and have the head checked for flatness, money for cam chain and tensioners and full Vesrah gasket set. It will go back together with 605 kit.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1701 on: November 24, 2017, 07:29:11 PM »
Things are a complete mess right now. Oil is all over the fins (mostly on the cylinders) but also one or two fins higher than where the head meets the cylinders. It’s on the exposed areas of the front of the air box, leaked all down to the bottom of the alternator, and blown clear back to the side covers and the frame back there. Seems like a significant leak and I’m sure it’s spewing at higher rpms. There was not oil on the side covers (some on the fins) today and I rode it about 40 miles just burning what was left in the tank so I could get it ready for winter. The tappet covers look fine and I don’t see oil from them, the rocker cover, or the end caps. I’m guessing it’s got to be the pucks or the head gasket. Tomorrow I will use engine degreaser and get things cleaned up and then put some baby powder at the base of the rocker cover and also at the head and cylinder (that’s where things look the worst).

Thanks for the input David. This is frustrating.

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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1702 on: November 24, 2017, 09:42:30 PM »
Question...cylinders and head were both decked. I did NOT take anything off the locating pins. Wonder if this is causing the head gasket to not do it's job as well as the o-rings? If those things are decked, do you need to remove a bit from the pins and, how do you know how much to take off?
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1703 on: November 25, 2017, 04:44:04 PM »
Today I cleaned up the motor as best as possible and then put some baby powder around the bottom of the cylinders, where the head meets the cylinders, and around the area where the rocker cover meets the head. I went out for about 5 miles and stopped. I saw absolutely nothing where the head gasket is or the base gasket. I did see quite a bit of oil coming from number three intake inspection cover. This appeared to be running down and getting to where the cam chain tensioner bolt exits the cylinders (this area was very wet). I saw a lot of wet spots where the rocker cover meets the head (all the way around) as well. I rode for about another 20 minutes or so and then brought it back home. Still nothing from the head or base gaskets. I honestly believe the oil was running down (from a few inspection covers and the rocker cover) and getting blown to the back of the cylinders where it's pooling up near the starter and then as it moves outward its getting blown back to the side covers or running down to the bottom of the alternator.

I'm sure that I am guilty of having things like those inspection covers too tight (recall one of those broke a few months ago) as well as the rocker cover. David, you mentioned this and how it may be causing the o-rings and gasket to actually not seal properly. Certainly could also be pucks but I doubt it. I used OEM pucks and a very light layer of Hylomar. Tomorrow I'll pull the exhaust and clean everything real well with degreaser. Should I order new inspection cover o-rings and rocker cover gasket and be less aggressive with tightening? Still wonder why this happened all of a sudden? I looked at the o-ring for inspection cover three and it seemed fine. Thanks for any input.
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Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1704 on: November 25, 2017, 07:43:14 PM »
The tappet covers, inspection covers, orings are pricey from Honda. With worn orings there they will leak.

Once oil starts flowing is what you are trying to catch.  Capillary action will cause the oil to wick around the any seam of a gasket between head to the cylinders or to the rocker/cam cover.  Once it starts flowing it will blow and drip and run to areas where it is not leaking from.  With as much oil as you are reporting you are not catching the start.

Cross threaded tappet covers will cause them to break, or cross threading. The orings are not submerged but slosh or splattered and if the oring is not sealing it wicks out...  it is good there is a lot of oil... you have sufficient oiling to the head.

The cam cover gasket can distort if overtightened and cause leaks.  Usually you don't cause leaks on the tappet covers, you can make them hard to remove and possibly cause them to break. When they are hard they can start leaking.

On a car a cork valve cover gasket is easy to over torque one of the screws causing a leak. Provided the cover is not deformed...easy to do on sheet metal covers.  Normally cast covers are not at risk of deformation as easily.

Fix the small stuff, then work your way into the next one...  once it starts leaking it can be tough to keep it from appearing to be leaking somewhere else.  Want to deal with more difficult to isolate leaks then you want to deal with a leaky roof.






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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1705 on: November 26, 2017, 06:14:32 PM »
Today I got a lot of the bike detailed. I still have a bit to finish but things are much better. I pulled the number three intake tappet inspection cover and even though I replaced the o rings during the top end rebuild, it looked flat. I also noticed a very small scratch in the sealing surface of the rocker cover (where the o ring for the inspection cover would sit). It's very small but I'm wondering if I should gently sand it down so it's even? Could be from a razor blade or screwdriver when I was scraping paint off the sealing surface or it could have been there before. I also found new tappet cover o rings and will replace them all. I will also pull the rocker cover and have a look at the gasket as well as the metal surfaces all the way around and see what they look like. I have a new gasket on the way just in case.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 06:18:14 PM by riverfever »
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1706 on: December 27, 2017, 09:03:13 PM »
Small update. I found a hairline crack in the top of the rocker cover and that's where the oil was coming from. Since I had just put the top all back together, I decided to try JB Weld. It sat up for a week and today I started the bike to drain the carbs and get her ready to for a long winter nap. Still leaking a bit from the same spot. Squirrel will sit now for a while. I may pull the rockers off the new 77/78 cover I have and get it blasted and powder coated so that I can swap it out at some point this winter.
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"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1707 on: December 28, 2017, 11:11:36 AM »
Small update. I found a hairline crack in the top of the rocker cover and that's where the oil was coming from. Since I had just put the top all back together, I decided to try JB Weld. It sat up for a week and today I started the bike to drain the carbs and get her ready to for a long winter nap. Still leaking a bit from the same spot. Squirrel will sit now for a while. I may pull the rockers off the new 77/78 cover I have and get it blasted and powder coated so that I can swap it out at some point this winter.

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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1708 on: December 29, 2017, 10:27:35 AM »
^ That would be cool.

It would be nice to get the new rocker cover installed this winter but I’ll have to have someone finish it. With the rockers removed, can the cover be sand blasted or is that not a good idea? What would the preferred method be? Also...I have a friend that says he can Cerakote the intake. Would that be okay or should it be powdercoat/paint? Thanks.
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1709 on: December 29, 2017, 10:42:49 AM »
^ That would be cool.

It would be nice to get the new rocker cover installed this winter but I’ll have to have someone finish it. With the rockers removed, can the cover be sand blasted or is that not a good idea? What would the preferred method be? Also...I have a friend that says he can Cerakote the intake. Would that be okay or should it be powdercoat/paint? Thanks.

Blasting it is fine, but use another media other than sand.  I dont know that much about Ceracote but I dont see a problem. Maybe do the same to the head cover.

You dont want to polish it?
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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1710 on: December 29, 2017, 02:41:37 PM »
I'd send it to Nils for blasting.
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1711 on: December 29, 2017, 02:53:51 PM »
First off...thank you for taking the time to pull the Corvette over and respond to this question. Yes...glass instead of sand. Knew there was something particular. I’m coming off almost two days of no sleep so I’m not thinking clearly. And I’m probably wrongfully referring to the part as the rocker cover instead of the head cover but I believe we mean the same thing.

I don’t know much about Cerakote either other than that it’s used on guns which makes sense because my buddy is a gun guy. Not sure if it comes in colors. I do like the color of the current head cover but I’d rather get it done soon and if that’s the case then it’ll be a satin black which will match the head.

And no I do not want to polish that thing. I redid several pieces to freshen them up a bit and will do a few new things this winter but that won’t be one of them.
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1712 on: December 29, 2017, 02:55:27 PM »
Hmmm. That is an idea Don. Would I get the cover cleared then?
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127186.0

"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1713 on: December 29, 2017, 03:13:33 PM »
Hmmm. That is an idea Don. Would I get the cover cleared then?

I would clear powdercoat it, only because you are prone to get some gas dripping from the carbs that could stain the cover.  With the PC, it will clean off easy.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
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2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1714 on: December 29, 2017, 03:24:02 PM »
First off...thank you for taking the time to pull the Corvette over and respond to this question.

Ha!   Actually was driving it today, a little cool out [45*] with the top down!

Ok, just looked it up. CeraCoat is basicly powdercoat but with ceramic and there are differant colors. Ceramic is typically more expensive than powdercoat but is much more heat resistant. I'm sure Call will be along to fill us in.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1715 on: December 29, 2017, 06:35:19 PM »
Obviously I want things to look good but I am worried about the intake being vapor blasted and being a different finish than anything else. I like the idea of the cover being a satin black to match the jugs and head. But...Chewy could also Work his magic and the polished bits would go together.
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Offline joeyvans

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1716 on: December 30, 2017, 05:35:43 PM »
My vote is for a Chewy polish.


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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1717 on: June 11, 2018, 09:04:06 PM »
Just wanted to update this. I swapped out the cracked rocker cover with the 78 one that was sitting on a shelf. I decided to clean it up myself and then paint it. I used VHT Cast Alloy and it came out great. I didn't clear it this time and it didn't turn a golden color which is perfect. I'm happy to say that, during the last several months, I have ridden the bike with no issues at all. I also pulled the stock front fender and struts and installed a carbon shorty fender that Shortround made. This allowed me to go in and swap to a less viscous fork oil and soften up the front end (since I'm not worried about that full fender hitting the header any longer). Hagons are coming. 

I've had some horrible pain in my right elbow that I think may be due to the clip ons. I've never had this elbow pain before. I may be changing to some low superbike bars. I have some ordered and will see what they look like (I'll be able to pull the shaved top clamp and install a stock one and the bars while leaving the Woodcrafts in place). Unfortunately, I do think this will mean some rewiring because I don't think the wiring for the Motogadget buttons is long enough but we'll see. If it's not then I will likely also take the opportunity to do something different with the gauges since the mini speedo quit long ago.

Lastly, I've begun to get much more comfortable with the bike and am riding it differently (in terms of the power band). I recently noticed that it stumbles at WOT. It did it at 6000' and seemed to get better as I climbed to 9000' but I'm going to ride to a few towns further up the mountain (where things will top out around 11'000) and see if it's better. I'm 105 now so we'll see what happens higher up in altitude before deciding to try 110 again.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127186.0

"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1718 on: June 12, 2018, 08:57:04 AM »
Chris was tire testing at Pikes Peak.  He's riding for the record against the Ducatis next week!
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1719 on: June 12, 2018, 11:33:14 AM »
I may not have been clear. I’m not looking to tune the bike to run better at 11 thousand feet and above. I simply want to utilize the altitude as a diagnostic tool in order to tell whether or not the stumble clears up as I go higher in altitude as this will let me know that less air (more fuel) hints at a move to 110 main might be needed.

Very difficult to find any place above me where it’s safe to do a chop at wot on high altitude mountain roads (for any length of time that it really should be done at). And yes...very tough to find a perfect tune for my situation but, as I said, riding higher in the power band (which I had to do the other day to outrun a storm) revealed this issue which I had never experienced before over the last year because I wasn’t using even 3/4 throttle. 
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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1720 on: June 12, 2018, 11:37:49 AM »
Ride it like you stole it, Chris.  Well, you don't have to ride it like a raped ape, but the 500/550 (especially one refreshed as yours) can handle some WOT and higher revs now and again.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1721 on: June 12, 2018, 11:42:49 AM »
Yeah I just never realized I had this issue way up top and if bumping up to 110 will clear it up and leave everything else as is then...great.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127186.0

"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1722 on: June 13, 2018, 03:22:54 PM »
Good update, glad to hear you are riding it and feeling better about it.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline riverfever

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1723 on: June 22, 2018, 01:53:28 PM »
Another update. Had a friend in from out of town and we did some backpacking so today is the first day I’ve been able to mess with the bike. I confirmed the jets in there were 105 and decided to drop to 100 and try things. What a difference that made! I rode it around town for about 6 miles to warm it up and then went outside of town and grabbed 3/4 throttle in third and was alarmed at how it pulled and kept pulling. Wide open was the same.

I just got back from a ride down to 6 thousand feet and all the way back up to 10 thousand feet the bike is significantly different now anywhere from 1/2 to wot. Everything else is the same. Idles great. Takes off from a stop beautifully. But now it’s a different bike up top. What a fun ride that was!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127186.0

"You wouldn't think that out here...a man could simply run clear...out of country but oh my...oh my...nothing but the light." -Ben Nichols

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB500/550 Project "Squirrel"
« Reply #1724 on: June 22, 2018, 05:06:59 PM »
You will probably have to go down in jets, not up if you plan to ride in the higher elevations. Less air, less fuel.
I confirmed the jets in there were 105 and decided to drop to 100 and try things. What a difference that made!
Told ya!  :P  ;D ;D
Really glad for you, actually. You built a helluva great bike your first time out, and now have it tuned to the teeth. Very inspiring, Chris   8)


Dont ever doubt Cal's advice!    Good to hear that bike is a runner!!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........