Topic: Question on All Balls bearing conversion kit

[puppytrax]

Got the All Balls Racing Steering Stem Bearing conversion kit #22-1011 for my CB500 last Thursday. There was no instruction sheet, and their web site does not have any "tips"... 

(www.allballsracing.com)

So, here's what we have -



The kit has a ~30mm ID seal with a steel backing, and a ~30mm ID steel washer ~.100" thick in the 33-1009 bag; a ~30mm steel washer ~.200" think in bag 9901011; a ~32mm ID seal in bag 33-1006; and the two bearings w/races in their own bags:

Top Bearing & race = KML 30-50H
Bottom Bearing & race = KML 26-485H

The old stem had these seals/shims/inner races in it (outer races not shown) -



I've read Stephen Bottchers writeup on the CB750 conversion in the Suspension FAQ (http://www.stephenbottcher.net/Honda/tapered.htm), but I'm not sure what to do with the "extra" seal (the 32mm is too big for a CB500/550stem) or either of the two steel washers - they are not ground flat, as you would expect for a bearing shim, and if I was to use the .200" washer, the lower bearing race would only fit half on...   

I understand there is some concern about the fork ears lining up properly with the tapered bearings in place, so shims might be necessary...but without actually assembling it, I have no idea how it will line up...   

Anybody have any comments/questions/tips??

[RRRToolSolutions]

Ok, here is where I can say a bigger thanks for the oil tank links (76 vs 74). I've done these conversions on several of my Kaws and I've just done the CB750 last week - so it's "fresh" on my mind.

The difference in the 2 bearings is due to the inside diameter. The larger of the 2 is of course the bottom bearing. Take your old bottom bearings, both races, the seal, and the washer just as it was assembled on the bottom of your stem. The stem is not needed for this measurement - all you're doing is getting the "stacked" height of the bottom pieces as assembled. Measure the assembled height of the old pieces with a caliper. Now take the new items (1 seal, bearing and the race - measure the height of those. You will use the washer/washers (they supply 1 thick, 1 thin for this purpose. Use the one or both to get as close to the same height as the old, assembled set. Use a little grease on the race and it will hold those loose ball bearings in-place.

Getting the bottom one right will put everything else exactly where is is supposed to be. I've done 10 sets of these I'd guess and they really are an upgrade. Don't forget to pack the bearings with a good moly or teflon grease. Mine were oiled, but not greased packed and they need to be. My 750 went together like this -

1) remove the old races - top and bottom
2) measured the bottom bearing set (mine did come with instructions)
3) install both the bottom and top races
4) clean stem and place in freezer (wife caught me doing this and did not approve, but as man of the house, I prevailed)
5) next day I assembeled the stem in this order (bottom to top)
   A) kit seal (lip facing up)
   B) thinnest of the 2 washers (this closely matched my stock bearing height)
   C) bearing (bottom one here!)

6) lifted stem into place and continued assembly in this order 0
   A) top bearing
   B) new seal (lip facing down)
   C) factory pieces just as per stock pieces.

I hope this helps.
Regards,
Gordon

[RRRToolSolutions]

Oh, I'm a big fan of the CB500's too. Here is a pic of my 1972. This is my favorite riding bike and gets more seat time than the rest.

Regards,
Gordon

[puppytrax]

...Measure the assembled height of the old pieces with a caliper. Now take the new items (1 seal, bearing and the race - measure the height of those.

Amazing...I actually did something right...   

I just got through doing that...Old lower bearing + seal + shim = ~.720"...KML bearing + seal = ~.600"...KML + seal + thin shim = ~.697"...KML + seal + thick shim = ~.800"...

The old shim [Honda] is .024"...so I can either stack the old shim + thin shim + seal + bearing and get ~.721...or just use the new thin shim + seal + bearing and get ~.697"...

.721" is closer than .697"...Unless I can find a ~.124" flat washer...with the right ID...

5) next day I assembeled the stem in this order (bottom to top)
   A) kit seal (lip facing up)
   B) thinnest of the 2 washers (this closely matched my stock bearing height)
   C) bearing (bottom one here!)

Ah... I have concern about that...I believe the washer goes on first; then the seal; then the bearing...The washer OD is the same as the seal OD; if you put the seal on first, then it won't be sealing the bearing...it'll be facing the washer...     But I got your drift...   

Say, you don't still have that instruction sheet, do you?? It'd be interesting to see how All Balls did it...(Since I know I'm going to have parts left over)... 

Nice CB500, BTW...That's the color of my old CB500...And I learned how to ride on an old (well, it was new then!) Honda 90, something like your avatar...

[RRRToolSolutions]

Yes, seal goes to the bearing. I have my details "out of order" - the washer goes on first with the bottom bearing assembly. The instructions say get within 1mm of the old set - so you are are fine. I'd go the .697 route. I'm glad you caught the seal thing - it absolutely has to be up near the bearing in order to seal out dirt.

Regards,
Gordon

[puppytrax]

I got a response from Kevin at All Balls - here's his reply =

This kit is supplied with (2) spacers that are used by various applications
to make up for thickness differences between the taper bearings and the ball
stacks. 

We have put instructions for the use of these spacers in kits since last
year, but if you have an earlier kit there may not be any instructions.

To determine which, if any washer is required measure the stack height of
the ball bearing assemblies (place a few ball between the races of both the
top and bottom bearing sets) and compare this measurement to the stack
height of both taper bearings.  Select a washer to put the difference in
stack height to 1 mm.  If the stack height is already within 1 mm then do
not use any washer.

The washer will be placed onto the stem first (before the seal and taper
bearing)

We do have some swing arm kits for street applications, but not a complete
line.  If you can supply us with the dimension of the components we can
typically supply all or some of the parts.

Regards
Kevin

(The last part was his response to my asking if the CB500 rear axle bearing kit was available yet).

His response matches your suggestion; I'll use the thin shim to give a stacked height of ~.697". Since this is all measured off the bike, I expect there will be some difference when it's all installed (probably later today).

No one has mentioned how they install the outer races in the headstock; I was planning on using a piece of 3/4" all-threaded rod and a couple big washers and an impact wrench (with a piece of scrap steel plate to draw up to)...That should give me a nice steady draw through the headstock...and hopefully eliminate cocking...   

[dusterdude]

freeze the races first,that should help