Author Topic: CB650 Horsepower!  (Read 12531 times)

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Offline Pinhead

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CB650 Horsepower!
« on: August 22, 2006, 07:47:17 PM »
When I first got my '79 CB650 it had barely enough power to go past 70mph. That had to change! I replaced the stock 90 main jets with 102.5's which made the bike run a hair rich. I removed the stock airbox cover and that helped a ton, but was still running a bit on the wet side. I drilled out my exhaust a little and that did the trick. The next couple of days I drove it to work, putted around town going anywhere from 30 to 55. Gave it plenty of thrashing through the gears. It'd bring up the front tire in 1st and 2nd! Finally today I deemed it healthy enough for the highway.

Going east on I-435 keeping up with traffic I was running a healthy 75mph. Running smooth, not so much of a miss, backfire, stutter, or anything that would make me want to slow down. After about 10 minutes of cruising I-435 E curved and turned into I-435 N on the Missouri side of town. A decent-looking Ford Probe pulled up next to me with an even better-looking female driver. She looked over at my old, raggedy-looking bike (dent tank, bad paint, old oil on the engine, etc.) laughed and passed me. Not to be one to be laughed at, I let her have it. Opened up the throttle (not yet WOT) and sped off to about 95mph. I was amazed!! I still had plenty of throttle left, so I gave her all she had. At about 105 the controlls get kind of touchy. At 115 it got downright scarry. THE DAMN THING WAS STILL ACCELERATING! At around 120 mph I'd finally had enough and slowed it down. There was still plenty of horsepower left in this old 650. Just not enough confidence in the suspension, transmission, tires, chain, sprocket, and most of all me. Besides, I couldn't imagine getting a 120 mph ticket on my bike (probably be arrested). Also, it was getting precariously close to redline and I didn't want to push the engine to its (or my) death.

Just typing about it speeds up my heart. What a rush!

A lot of people would question my speedometer's accuracy. Normally I would, also, but the specs match my RPM to my speed pretty accurately. I can imane one could be off (either speedo or tach), but both being off, and to the same degree, is a lot less likely.

On a side note, according to some documents I've found, the 627cc motor is rated at around 49hp at 8100rpm, weighs 365 lbs, and obviously has a top-end up and above 120mph. That's 0.134 hp per pound.

The mighty 750's 736cc motor produces 67hp at 8000rpm while carrying 517lbs of weight. That divides out to 0.129hp per pound.

CB650=.134hp/lb
CB750=.129hp/lb

Hmmmmm........
Doug

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eldar

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2006, 07:57:15 PM »
So did you blow by her? And if you saw her again, did she laugh then??? ;D

Offline Pinhead

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2006, 07:59:23 PM »
I passed her at around 90mph or so. I wasn't looking at her that time!
Doug

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eldar

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2006, 08:01:05 PM »
Well cant say  blame you! That will teach her though!

Offline mlinder

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2006, 08:01:24 PM »
Depends on the year for the 750. Supposedly, mine weighs well under 500.
I think that the 650 was actually around 465lbs, not 365.
I also think that the 750's horsepower is 67 at the crank, while the 49hp youve quoted for the 650 is at the wheel. I do belive it was something like 62 hp at the crank, very close to the cb 750.

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Offline Pinhead

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2006, 08:18:53 PM »
62 at the crank, even better! And that's with stock jets, right? I've got bigger jets, slightly more free-flowing exhaust, and a much more free-flowing intake. I may be rivaling the 750's horsepower...

I got the numbers from www.sohc4.us lol
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

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Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2006, 08:33:57 PM »


             Until I joined SOHC4, I had of course heard of the 650s but, didn't really know that much about them. Now, I've learned quite a bit about them and about all the 4's. I'm really impressed by what might be accomplished with the 550s and 650s.  As a matter of fact, I'm trying to find out all I can about building a 550 motor with 650 innards. I want that 550 to "Carry The Mail" without being suspected of actually being a 650. So, I've been trying to keep up with anything to do with both of them. It'd be nice to have all this info in the FAQ.   
                                                      Later on, Bill
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Offline mlinder

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2006, 08:36:25 PM »
62 at the crank, even better! And that's with stock jets, right? I've got bigger jets, slightly more free-flowing exhaust, and a much more free-flowing intake. I may be rivaling the 750's horsepower...

I got the numbers from www.sohc4.us lol
Im pretty sure the kurb weight of the 750 K0 was something like 475ish lbs.
There's also a rather large difference in the torque between a 750 and a 650.

I think you are probably looking at pretty equal power to weight ratio between your 650 and most 750's, especially at 6k rpm and over. The 750 will have a bit more grunt in the lower ranges.
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 10:19:47 PM »
Doug/mlinder,

You can play about with BHP and power to weight ratio untill the cows come home, but it wont realy tell you how fast a bike is.

to give you an example I have three bikes, all have very different power to weight ratios and I weigh 126lb.

Below are the power to weight ratios and the speed of the two least powerfull, both are CR750s, see if you can fill in the missing speed.

.169bhp per lb......135mph.

.242bhp per lb......161mph.

.288bhp per lb......?????????

Sam.

P.S. anyone can have a guess ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 22, 2006, 10:23:03 PM by samcr750 »
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Ernie

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2006, 04:09:54 AM »
163mph ?  :-\
Its all happening !
my 1978 CB550K.......>>>
http://gallery.sohc4.net/main.php?g2_itemId=4440

Offline mlinder

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2006, 05:59:19 AM »
Doug/mlinder,

You can play about with BHP and power to weight ratio untill the cows come home, but it wont realy tell you how fast a bike is.

to give you an example I have three bikes, all have very different power to weight ratios and I weigh 126lb.

Below are the power to weight ratios and the speed of the two least powerfull, both are CR750s, see if you can fill in the missing speed.

.169bhp per lb......135mph.

.242bhp per lb......161mph.

.288bhp per lb......?????????

Sam.

P.S. anyone can have a guess ;D ;D ;D

160 mph, geared to top out at 150mph at the end of a 1/4" race track. (at around 9 seconds)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 06:24:28 AM by mlinder »
No.


Ibsen

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2006, 09:06:09 AM »
There were two versions of the 650 engine. Or more correctly, they were delivered with two different camshafts and carbs. The full version had claimed 63hp, and the tuned down version had approx 50.
But it is correct that a on Dyno test back in 79 it boosted out 49,42hp on the rear wheel, while the 1977 750K was measured to 57,13:   http://www.triumf.ca/people/baartman/bike/cb750khp-77.gif

With stock sized sprockets the 650 is geared to reach 120 miles/193kph at redline, 9500rpm, in 5th gear, and properly tuned, and under the right weather conditions, and with the rider flat out, it probably will. The Cycle magazine managed a 1/4 mile timing at 12.993 @ 102.38 mph, and a top speed of 123 mph back in 1979. But over here in Europe I belive the best they acchieved was 119mph.
The weight for the Europen 650Z, with a full tank, is 496lb.


Rocking-M

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 02:10:43 PM »
I don't know how accurate the speedo was on my old 71 K1.
The fellow I bought it from said for some reason it was faster than any other
750 he had seen. This was by 1975.
But I use to hit a six mile stretch with no exit on 95 (Just before the Benson exit)
going back to Raleigh, I lay down on the tank and shift with my left hand, when I hit 5th
just hold it to it and it would hit 130. Now I regularly tached that bike past the redline on the tach.
So I can't swear I wasn't past that redline. But it would hit 130 everytime I did it.

Offline cmorgan47

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2006, 02:18:29 PM »
i didn't think _any_ of these speedos are that accurate...espically that high.

recently i put a GPS on my bars to test and the speedo consistantly read high...

speedo       GPS   
50              45
80              72
110            91.9

i'd check it with something else.
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eldar

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2006, 02:35:32 PM »
hard to say. Mine is within 2 mph at 50. But with all the different tire combos people put on, it is not surprising that there are variances.

Ibsen

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2006, 02:55:23 PM »
If you can get a picture of yourself taken by the police showing you were riding in 130mph I guess that will be a strong proof. ;D

Offline crp_iii

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2006, 03:13:02 PM »
I know a few 100k areas on the Autobahn where they will take your picture with your speed and mail it to you along with a request for funds......
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Offline nickjtc

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2006, 03:22:03 PM »
samcr750....so what's the answer, or did I miss it? I'm guessing less than 170mph.

The big advantage of the 650, as touted in the write-ups of the day, was it's lack of weight compared to its big brother (sister?). As far as I am concerned that is a big advantage, not being the he-man type I was in my youth.
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2006, 03:42:18 PM »
It's a little early yet Nick, people in the States are only just finishing dinner, the guys on the west coast are still at work I would guess.

I like your reasoning/answer but let's give it a couple of hours. ;)

With regards to GPS, anyone involved in very high speed timed trials will tell you it's not spot on.

The FIM timing equipment used for world landspeed records often gives anything from 2 to 5mph out compared to GPS at speeds above 200mph.

Sam.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 04:10:22 PM by samcr750 »
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline mlinder

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2006, 03:44:31 PM »
It's a little early yet Nick, people in the States are only just finishing dinner, the guys on the west coast are still at work I would guess.

I like your reasoning but let's give it a couple of hours. ;)

With regards to GPS, anyone involved in very high speed timed trials will tell you it's not spot on.

The FIM timing equipment used for world landspeed records often gives anthing from 2 to 5mph out compared to GPS at speeds above 200mph.

Sam.


Quote
160 mph, geared to top out at 150mph at the end of a 1/4" race track. (at around 9 seconds)

I was assuming you were using it for 1/4m times. We'll never be able to figure out unless we know the application :)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2006, 03:59:26 PM »
The lower powered CR750 is used for that purpose but our drag racing is usually done on airfield runways, 2 of them just over 2 miles long.
We do flyers as well as standing quaters.
The mid powered one is the factory CR750 of Ralph Bryans, it weighs the same as ours but produces 96bhp and was timed at 161mph in practice for the Daytona race in 1970.
The third is one of my own race bikes and has a much higher power to weight ratio than the CR750s, also the aerodynamics of this bike are much better than the CRs.

Sam.
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2006, 04:23:35 PM »
Hi Dave ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2006, 04:40:09 PM »
OK mlinder, I see you waiting but are you not going to guess at its top end speed ?

Sam.
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

brad weingartner

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2006, 04:48:43 PM »
There were two versions of the 650 engine. Or more correctly, they were delivered with two different camshafts and carbs. The full version had claimed 63hp, and the tuned down version had approx 50.
But it is correct that a on Dyno test back in 79 it boosted out 49,42hp on the rear wheel, while the 1977 750K was measured to 57,13:   http://www.triumf.ca/people/baartman/bike/cb750khp-77.gif

With stock sized sprockets the 650 is geared to reach 120 miles/193kph at redline, 9500rpm, in 5th gear, and properly tuned, and under the right weather conditions, and with the rider flat out, it probably will. The Cycle magazine managed a 1/4 mile timing at 12.993 @ 102.38 mph, and a top speed of 123 mph back in 1979. But over here in Europe I belive the best they acchieved was 119mph.
The weight for the Europen 650Z, with a full tank, is 496lb.



Where does this data come from? There has always been quite a few blanks. Do you know the years/designations between the two?

upperlake04

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Re: CB650 Horsepower!
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2006, 04:54:35 PM »
Hello Sam ;D