Topic: The 550SS is getting there....

[Rushoid]

What do you think?

From first post, to...

... if you have anything negative to say, kiss my ass. I don't care if it's not the color you would have chosen. I don't care if you think a cafe is not a cafe unless it has rear-sets. I don't care if you have anything negative to say at all, just keep your trap shut.

It has been my experience that there are a lot of people on this forum that run their mouths when it is not necessary. If I say something that is wrong, correct me. But if I am just posting, and you don't like it- learn to keep your traps shut....please.

So what you're saying is that you don't want to hear anything but praise. Is that right? Ok, I like the blue.

Funny, I read through these posts several times and still can't find one that was bad-mouthing your bike.  Maybe if you don't want constructive criticism, or you don't want to hear anything negative (God forbid!), then you should learn to not post questions like "What do you think?".

[JP]

Dear fellas,

I appologize for sounding like an ass, but try to see my perspective please.  I usually don't quote what people have said for reasons even I can't explain, but let me show you what I read as people replied:

seriously, i'd love to strip down to the frame and paint it silver.

Not sure if this is saying that he would love to strip HIS frame down and paint it silver, or if he meant that I should.   At this point I just blew it off.

Never cared for gold paint like that. Always seem to have a slightly pink look to it. Just my opinion.

Now, I am very confused- but it's okay cause this guy must be color blind.  You gotta admit Rushoid....pink???

I have to agree........not much into the gold paint.

Okay, now I'm saying, WTF?  Get off the dead horse!

This guy likes it.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

 

Now I get a joke about it, even though it was really funny, at this point I don't understand why EVERYONE feels the need to chime in and show thier dissapproval.

Not sure about the colour

Just one more comment to confirm what the masses see as a bad choice in paint.


So.  What may not seem like a big deal to you, was 6 out of the first 7 responses to my blood sweat and tears were negative or at least not at all positive.

I know that none of you fellas meant to diss me or anything like that, but just ass some of you guys persive my comments as abrassive, I too see your comments very un-called for.  A simple-Whata ya think? yields a list of un-needed and un-useful comments.

Critisizing a color choice is not in ANY way constructive.  It was a personal choice and I think it looks sweet.  I've known many men that where married to ugly women.  Did I tell them, "hey man, your wife makes me think of a bucktoothed platapuss".

No.  That would be rude.

Constructive critisism would be:

I think the front tyre is on the wrong way about. We've all done it...

Now this is good, it helps me to correct my mistakes.

I have been on a lot of forums, but none like this one.  If anything at all is questionable, someone jumps on you immediately.  This is good,  But the half dozen others that come along afterwards can get really annoying- Thus, I am deffensive.

Also, Jeff-  I know you notice my comments and see them as rude, if this post does nothing to stop needless critisism, at least you can find humor in my pissiness.

By the way, El Huero, not to ever say anything negative about Carpy(his shiz is the bomb and I can't belive that people compare my bikes to his), but his bikes are typically stock motored.  They probably run real nice, but most of his stuff is just really really really cleaned up stock stuff.  The money that would be put into the engines wouldn't come back in the sale.  If he was to spend $2,000 on building up an engine, he would probably only profit $1,000 more than a stock build- Therefore, it's not worth it.  This 550 is just stock, cheap build with maximum sale price is the key to business success.

JP

[Roach Carver]

wadduzzit say on da back

[JP]

Custom Cafe

My shop is called "The Custom Cafe".  Think of cafe as the actual shop, not the type of bike.  I need to put "The" in there on the bike.

JP

[JP]

He has built up a few like that, and I'm sure he really knows how to get some power out of these engines;  I was just saying that most are stock.

By the way, in the post about the new member of the family with the 550SS, That is just a stock exhaust for the bike.  The way all four pipes sweep over to the right side of the filter is supposed to deliver much more hp (relatively speaking) than any aftermarket pipe you can get for the 550- unless of course if you can get something real custom like a Yoshimura or something.

JP

[Rushoid]

Sorry, JP. I guess I thought you wanted honest opinions. Nobody said your bike was ugly. Maybe you were blinded by the "I don't care for..." comments and didn't notice that everybody (I think) said you were doing a good job. When I ask "What do you think?" about something, I want to get as many opinions as possible so I can determine my next course of action. If I get 1 response telling me that the stuffed aardvark mounted to the headlight looks silly, I think it's no big deal. But if there's several similar posts, then I think "maybe I should consider changing that." If it's a bike I'm going to keep, and I want it personalized, then I'll probably keep it. After all, I like stuffed aardvarks.  But if I'm building something for sale, I want to appeal to as many people as possible so I have a better chance of selling it. Isn't that one of the basics of marketing? I have it on good authority that Mr. Honda liked stuffed chinchillas, yet he decided to not include them on his bikes.

And yes, pink. It's not just me. My wife sees it too. Since I've been married to her I've noticed a lot of strange things about colors. I used to think she was crazy when she'd talk about "warm" red and "cool" red, but now I see it too. Gold paint sometimes looks a little green to me too. I guess it depends on how much pigment and base colors it's made of. Or maybe the colors around the subject. I just don't know. Or, maybe you, and everyone else, are the ones that are colorblind!

[Klark Kent]

JP
I for one respect your instinct to not be one of those posters that kisses everyone's ass and doesn't express an original thought unless it is qualified with, "if you guys agree"  there are enough people like that and they are the real dicks.  I even understand your desire to head off criticisms of stuff you dont want to change, like the color of the frame at this point.  but you have gone beyond that by saying you are only open to positive feedback or at the most being informed of dangerous errors regarding tires.  I for one had comments that I held back because you were not coming off as receptive.  i am sure there are others.  so dont complain if the only ones left commenting were the ones who wanted to pick on you as you had put off everyone else that might have had constructive, albeit negative, things to say. 

this is a technical board, but lets face it most of the technical issues are covered in previous posts, so for some time now the regular contributors have been engaged in much opinion-posting.  and they are a good source of opinions at that.  so you will get a dozen offhand comments about a tiny detail, a joke, a nonrelavent pic, a good natured jab at your supersensitive ribs, but this is the price you pay for that rare bit of insight that comes from our opinions.  if you are unwilling to sift then do not call on the opinions of this board.  And rushoid is right, as a business man you should be treating this more like a focus group and less like highschool, what people think of you or your bikes is only relevant as it pertains to your bility to sell them.  because as i think you said there are only two opinions that matter to you.  right?  well you know what the first one is, and the rambling opinions here COULD help you guess what the other one will be- but i think only if you put yourself out there and take what comes- good bad and random, instead of slaughtering the baby to avoid someone telling you your bathwater is red. 

or whatever
-KK

[Jeff]

Well, Rushoid and Klark said it better than I did.

And yes, I have called you on your comments before. Maybe that, and the fact that Rushoid and Klark have now explained it loads better than I did, will help you realize what you're doing. I mean, look at it this way. If you're trying to start a business doing this, do you really think it'll help you to be abrasive to people that could potentially be a customer? A bad attitude could turn alot of potential $$$ away.

I totally understand that people will sometimes post unnecessary responses. That's part of the internet. Here's a quick example. When I was searching for a CB, I put a post on another forum that I was looking for one cheap. A response said, "Don't buy an old bike, spend a bit more money and get an SV650." Gee, thanks for that helpful post.

But instead of saying, "I don't care what you think, blah blah blah," I replied with I only have so much money to spend and I always thought a vintage bike would be cool. My point is made without telling the other member to F off.

If you post on the Net, people will give their opinions. Some of them will be helpful, some will not. It's your job to filter through the replies for the ones that have merit.

FWIW, I'm not into the style of tail section you used. That's just my opinion and mine only. That doesn't mean your choice sucked. It's just not my thing. I'm also not into the gold, and I can see what others said about the color looking a bit off. Some of that could be due to lighting, or camera settings. But it could be the color. Only you can see the bike in person so only you know for sure.

There may be things I don't like about the bike, but I give you loads of credit for building it. It's way more than I've ever done to a bike. I also think the color blue you used was a superb choice.

Just two more cents from me.
Jeff

[Roach Carver]

whats wrong with pink? I hear it's the new purple.

[JP]

Thanks guys, the point has been driven home.  You guys, Rushoid, Klark, and Jeff labled everything really well- espesially Klark and Jeff.

Being a guy that tries to point out the good parts of people's projects, I just don't understand why people feel the need to give comments like- "I don't like it, but good job anyway".  

I just don't get it???  I don't mind if people don't like it, I just don't understand why they would go out of there way to make it known.

Like what you said Jeff, about the seat.  At this point I understand why you said it, but can you imagine how lame it would have been if it had been at the beginning of the post?  I mean, what's the point- other than to say that what you like is the best and there are no alternatives?

I for one cannot possibly fathom the idea of stripping a bike all the way down to re coat the frame with a fresh coat of black.  I can't tell you how absurd this is to me- I mean, hello, it was already black to begin with and painting it black again will in no way make it an original- which brings me to another opinion-  I think it is crazy to make a bike comletely stock, even though these can often be worth more than a custom, to me it just lacks personality.  

I have seen many restores or customs on this site with black frames or completely stock, never would I reply to someones hard work with- "Not sure about the frame, but good work."  Why bring up the thing that I don't like at all, just be positive unless you see an area that the builder is having problems with, like say maybe- "I see you did alot of polishing, but I still see some haze- to really make it shine, I use brand XYZ with Lambs wool."

JP

[Klark Kent]

ok, you did ask for it.

i see you are having trouble with putting on rear sets...  (reading into your comment that you don't want to hear about how its not a real cafe without them)  well, i dont care how real a bike is (so long as it exists enough to get me from a to b)  but i do care how comfortable it is to ride while i do so.  Even with superbike bars i find my toes on the pegs (as opposed to my heels)  with your bars, i doubt the riding position will be comfortable without rear sets.  possible yes, comfortable no.  so why are you avoiding that aspect.  if you have issues with how or why, ask people here and you will get good advice from folks who have done it (or not) and will be a lot better off than you are now either way.  telling people you dont want to hear about it will get you nothing, as people here (the ones worth listening to) will actually respect your wishes and not mention the fact that rear controls exist for a reason. 

the other comment i held back on was a question about frame color.  while i don't think a gold frame is a bad idea, i do think it needs a shiny engine inside it. a black frame is nice because even matte old aluminum feels right in a black frame- for the smae reason fat people wear black.  with a metallic frame, a dull engine seems out of place, even wonky.  are you going to paint the engine?  polish it to all heck?  or does it look much better in person?  because right now, your gold and bl;ue is popping, but there is some dull grey that detracts.  so while a blue bike with a black frame would look alright with a gunmetal grey engine, the gold and grey, not so much.  so my opinion wasnt going to be the old- repaint the frame jive- mine was going to be - why dont you paint the engine gold?!  that would look sick, and i dont think i have EVER seen it- if originality gets you off. 

as far as why jeff decided to tell you your rear was not his style- he is just setting himself apart from you (you are a kind of leper) BUT he wouldnt have to do so if he didnt want to complement your work.  so he wanted to say nice work, but had to also let the forum know where he differs- he is still defining himself to the other members here (as am i as am you.)  -

i dont really believe that you are incapable of fathoming why people make the comments they do so this is the last time i think i will try and explain it to you- i just felt the need to step in and say a bit in an effort to save someone from squandering what i have found to be a precious resource.  this forum, these people (even the ones that need to be unproductive in some of their posts) are not something you can just open a phonebook and find, so take the good with the bad, and open yourself up to both because as anyone who has ever built something or created anything in any way artistic will tell you, inspiration often comes from the most unlikely of places and someones off hand comment just might lead you to another thought, which would lead to another and then THE THOUGHT.  i just couldnt sit by and let you shut out half the forum (the good half) with a bad attitude. 

and really, would you rather read a few one liners on your way to the big epiphany, or read another one of my lectures about interpersonal communication?  i think a pic of goldmember is starting to look PREtty darn good to you right about now.

lighten up., let it roll of yer back, and keep up the good work...
-KK

[JP]

Thanks Klark,

I haven't done rear-sets yet because of money.  I don't think they would return the money/time that it would take to make or buy them.  You see, the only bikes that go for real big money are bikes that have garunteed buyers asking for something specific.

Tonight I will be putting back together a 750 that I have been working on for a guy that has already paid me $4,500 and upon delivery, will pay about that much again.  His bike should be really nice and I have been working real tight with him and so far he is as happy as a kid on Christmas, regardless of the price.  However, if I where to build another bike like his, I would probably be lucky to get back what I had in it for parts alone.  Why?  Because it is HIS bike, HIS dream, and all of HIS ideas- Therefore, it is absolutely worth it to him.

So, with bikes like the 550 here, I don't want to spend anymore time or money than I have to in order to get a nice clean little machine that will make the buyer feel good about the $2,000 or so it will take to get it.  Although I really like rear sets, I don't think they would raise the selling price on this bike enough to make it worth my while.

For now, I have to settle with doing the really noticable things like tank, seat, bars, and overall paint scheme because I can't afford not to make a noticable profit.  And any little extras would simply eat into my profits rather than add to it.  The exception to this, are the customers that have a specific idea and are willing to pay top dollar to see it become a reality.

So, the engine and wheels where simply sandblasted and clearcoated because this was very cheap, but is still FAR better than what the engine looked like before.

About the paint:  It is actually called Suede Gold and it looks almost copper.  In person, the frame and engine/wheels go great together and really give it a darker personality.  The addition of the bright blue really makes you notice this. 

So far, the people who have seen it in person say it looks great- and different.  So hopefully when it's all done, it will turn heads and someone will be happy with it.

JP

[mkramer1121]

This is where everything differs between you and a number of people on this forum.  You are building a bike to sell, while a number of us are putting our dreams together.  This is probably why you will get a number of nit picky comments like oh, why not do this or this, it'll make the bike look/ride better.  Its because we all try to help each other out.  If you were to say this is just my business and I'm trying to do the best I can on limited funds, then maybe the comments would be different.  I'm sure you perused the FAQs, but in there there is a nice write up on cheap rear sets.  Maybe that would fit your needs.

I know where you're coming from on the most bang for your buck comment.  I'm trying to build my dream 750 out of $150 bike.  I got a number of the replacement parts I needed for free/cheap (I have a friend's Dad that was cleaning out his basement after he finished his 550 and 750 builds), but I'm now at the point of deciding what needs to be done NOW and what can wait.  So when I'm done and its in rideable condition, I'll still have minor add ons to do, probably like rear sets, or chrome gauge rings, finned engine covers, progressive springs, etc.  Its just the difference between a hobbyists and someone that does it for a living.

[Jeff]

Just make sure you take good photos when it's done... the 750 you're working on too. Get that bike outside in natural light with the sun behind you. If it's cloudy, shadows won't be so harsh. Set the white balance on the camera to whatever the weather/lighting conditions are. Not only will it make everyone here happy, it'll good for your portfolio. Remember if you're selling online, better photos will bring more money.

Jeff

[Klark Kent]

had a thought,

possible business model:

you build a bike without a buyer like you are doing now, keeping cost low and making the big stuff perfect.  once someone is drawn in you tell them what COULD be done to the bike... for additional charges.  call them customization options and dont let on that the bike may NEED some of these things to be its best, just that your customer may wish to go the extra mile and pay a little more for things like rear sets or other expensive improvements.  (although i believe you could do them cheaper than you think- hell, the buyer woont know that)  the more creative you get you could really snag some major cash on top of what you are angling for with the thrifty approach.  it seems like you have the knack for this sort of creativity based on the $9,000 750 you are building so this may be right up your alley. 
however if you over do it you will develop a way of operating that only works so long as these bikes are trendy, because the kind of person willing to spend that much money on his "dream 750" will be dreaming of something else next year.  the guys i see that are still around after wrenching or building for thirty years do not seem to do this, they seem to get by on being solid dudes and letting that word get around.  i am sure they take the occasional fool on a trip to the cleaners, but they seem to reserve it for those who will be throwing their money at someone soon and it might as well be them. 
my best advice owuld be to not look at every project as one where profits need to be maximized.  i am an independent videographer, and find myself doing projects equally for three reasons- money, experience, or morals.  and the last two eventually do lead to me making more money than i would have had i focused only on the gigs that pay the most.  look at the big picture and beg borrow or steal before you sell out your long term vision to make short term cash.  failing that, and otherwise, if your goal is bottom line profit, why not restore stockers?, if as you said that's where the big bucks are. 

see the posts are getting shorter as your attitude gets better (ok not by much but give me time to improve MYself (i'm from the east coast ))
-KK

[JP]

I hear ya on the pics, Jeff.  One of the guys that helped me out with putting the 78 750K together tonight is a professional photographer and as soon as the 550SS and the Street Tracker 750 get completed, we will be doing a photo shoot in front of an old gas station with the really wild looking old pumps and stuff.  Should be nice.

The Street Tracker is going together nicely.  I personally would have never picked a 750 for this project, but the idea that his may be one of the only ones out there is what he really likes.  I have to admit, the more I look at the tank and seat mocked up on the bike, I think it was a great choice.  I really like the indentions, they are about three inches deep!

The guy is a real nice fella.  He works as the lead pharmacist at two hospitals, so he has a lot of money and very little time.  Here's a pic of what was done tonight.
JP

[Klark Kent]

didn't your dad ever beat you for not putting tools back?
clean up yer shop, man!

drunk and kidding
-KK

[bill440cars]

                      You know, I kinda wondered why nobody ever did a Honda Tracker before. I've seen
          lots of XS650 & SR500 Yamahas but, no Hondas. It seemed like it was taboo or something.
          That's going to be a sharp looking bike but, it may just start a move on the tracker style though.
          Keep us posted on the progress. Later on,  Bill

[jdhasten]

good thing you put plastic down, you wouldn't want to mess up that pristine floor. what about the seats in the background? are they going to be in anything any time soon?

[JP]

YOU CAN SUCK ON THESE JDH!!!!!!

For those of you who don't know (all of you) JDH is my best bud out in Texas and he (along with everyone else who has seen my garage) has always given me #$%* about it.

I know, I'm a slob.  But I here that most geniouses usually are.

By the way, JDH is also the guy that will be getting a 550 off of me soon to build on his own and he is the one that I refered to when mentioning a friend that wants to know how to get the most power out of a 550 (as if you guys would remember what I wrote in a different post over a month ago).

Later,
JP

[aptech77]

AH, what a loving Honda owner's family we are.

[Troy R]

So Chevy engine orange.... What do you guys think?.....Oh god . ha ha ha. Keep in mind, It was $500. bucks.Canadian eh.Thats like  what 46.85 US ?? right?

[Jeff]

That tracker is gonna be cool.

Jeff

[JP]

Jeff,

I just know someday I will see you in person, and you will actually be Jack Black.

Troy,

Everytime you post, the first thing I see is orange, and I know it's you- don't change it- go with it and create a real juicer.

Funny how our avatar's represent us,
JP

[Jeff]

Well, I am sorta built like Jack Black, although not quite that pudgy. If I grew my hair long, it would look like Nacho's. If I grew a thin mustache and squinted my eyes, I probably would then look a lot like my avatar.

Yet my wifey still loves me.

Jeff