Topic: Gasket sealers and why some should not be used. Permatex=just say no

[ElCheapo]

This is more of a courtesy heads up on the gasket sealer stuff that is out there on a store shelf waiting to kill your bike. Simple, the only gasket sealer you should be using is "1104" or some level of Hondabond or Yamabond. Anything else will turn into nasty little silcon BB's that will plug and KILL your motor. NEVER, I reapeat, NEVER use any type of permatex product on your motorcycle engine.

1104 is just a pinch runny and is gray in color. Once it sets up it stays sticky (even after a year). A tiny bit goes a long ways. Whats more is no nasty permatex squeeze out boogers.

[brad weingartner]

I wouldn't go so far as to lay the blanket statment that every permatex product is incorrect. You're right in saying a silicone based sealant is not suitable, but the permatex Aviation Form-a-gasket is probably even better than hondabond or yamabond for case-halves. There are some other products similar in nature, but the permatex is all I recall. Non-hardening, and approved for use on aircraft split case engines. Thats good enough for me.

[einsteingarage]

Damn, I just put this on my split case.  So you say no good.


How about this?  Is this any good?  It says it is but they are not going to say our product sucks!


http://www.jpcycles.com/productgroup.aspx?GID=8B3A4D5E-3837-45E2-AC24-1490E364BF83

[ofreen]

The problem can occur with about any sealer if too much is used.  People use too much, then it is squeezed out of the joint during assembly.

[dusterdude]

if you put a thin film on with your finger,you wont have problems

[ElCheapo]

I will have to post pics of the latest "death by permatex". Victim. I figure if it was good enough from the start all of the manufacturers would have used it then. One can't help but notice that they dont use anything like that.

Even the smallest amount of permatex will break down into small rubber bb's that WILL clog oil galleys.

[MRieck]

Damn, I just put this on my split case.  So you say no good.


How about this?  Is this any good?  It says it is but they are not going to say our product sucks!


http://www.jpcycles.com/productgroup.aspx?GID=8B3A4D5E-3837-45E2-AC24-1490E364BF83

As long as you applied it thinly it will be ok.

[einsteingarage]

Thanks,

I did apply it thinly but I think I will go back and use the grey moto1 stuff.  I have used it before on other stuff and it is much thinner and more fluid than the copper stuff.  I haven't tightened up the bolts on the cases yet so it is a good time to go back and reapply.

From what I have read, I should apply a very thin coat with finger just enough to cover lightly.  Also, am I correct in applying the sealant then put the cases together and let sit overnight. Then put bolts in and torque?

[ElCheapo]

The copper is the only product they make that is worth a #$%*. The rest just make rubber boogers. If you must use stuff other than 1104 or Yamabond or similar then the black stuff works the best. The red and blue are unadulterated crap. This is why at the Ford dealership we stopped using them all together. I think it would be conservative to say that I have pulled about 1,000 radiators killed by this junk.

Hate the copper in the tube as it makes a mess. Go to wipe the excess away, and smear, smear, smear. Kind of like working with funny colored poo.

I knew I would get a fight on this subject when I posted it. I was a dyed in the wool permatex user from the automotive days. It took some time to come around but I can tell you there is no way in hell that I would use anything other than 1104 on gasket surfaces on a bike. For head gaskets I know I will run in EXTREME conditions I use the high temp copper spray on just the gasket. I have seen motors glow and still not blow the head gasket.

I think to the assembly line,,,, is there some guy at home tonight going, tommorow we have to put together all that crap with the permatex stuff on it. We could build so much more stuff if it did not have to stay over night to cure 

I also have this fight frequently with guys putting car oil in bikes. oooooo now I threw a rock at the hornets nest 

[clarkjh]

Ah, come on Cheapo. You got to give the pot a bigger stir than that.

James

PS: when mine goes back together I'll have to find something worth using, keep the debate up.

[ElCheapo]

Ah, come on Cheapo. You got to give the pot a bigger stir than that.

James

PS: when mine goes back together I'll have to find something worth using, keep the debate up.

Car oil ROCKS!!!!! STIR STIR STIR

Beats waiting for the sand and turd mix to liquify   

[6adan]

Back a few years ago when I was in the Navy I was an Engineman and my Chef would not even let a tube of Permatex in the shop.We had a large tank of cleaner that was so strong that it would take everything off an engine block but the permatex. Dannie

[78 k550]

The red and blue are unadulterated crap. This is why at the Ford dealership we stopped using them all together. I think it would be conservative to say that I have pulled about 1,000 radiators killed by this junk.

I also have this fight frequently with guys putting car oil in bikes. oooooo now I threw a rock at the hornets nest 

If there useing the red or blue stuff around waterpump then they have not put an engine (car) together. I have never used blue silicone around any water jacket or water housing. I have always used the red stuff in a can Ultra hight tac. never had a problem. I lay down a nice 1/4" bead for the intake manifold on my 360's and my 401 going in my truck. I never had a problem.

Whats this?
car oil in a motorcycle 

Paul

[Rocking-M]

The aviation gasket stuff is all I ever use, cars, trucks, etc...
I never use silicon anykind, doesn't matter the brand, if used to heavily
you got a potential for engine trouble.

[ElCheapo]

The aviation gasket stuff is all I ever use, cars, trucks, etc...
I never use silicon anykind, doesn't matter the brand, if used to heavily
you got a potential for engine trouble.

I think this is the greatest point made.... This is the very reason for not using silicon based stuff. Notice he says "If used too heavily"

[mazingerzeca]

Hello. I've never tried this, but in Clymer Service Manual they use Permatex to join crankcases. What is 1104? Is a different brand or a different variety of Permatex?

[ElCheapo]

3.5 oz. Excellent padding properties make this semi-drying sealer perfect for joint surfaces. Special synthetic rubber absorbs vibrations and impacts without failure, especially where coolants are involved. Sealant #4.
 
Price: $4.65

[dusterdude]

4.65,is that the price from elcheapos gasket sealer outlet and emporium?

[ElCheapo]

4.65,is that the price from elcheapos gasket sealer outlet and emporium?

No thats what the big box online stores sell it at. Of course I could carry it later in the future. My guess is dealer cost is about $3.

[MRieck]

I'm not going to argue about using 1104, Yamabond, Hondabond etc(same stuff). I've used it a million times. I have used the Ultra several times on case halves with no problems. I have used the gray for a car oil pan with no problems too.

[einsteingarage]

Well, I torqued down the underside bolts on the case today.  I know that I used very little Permatex.  I was concerned that I didn't have enough on there.  Well, I gotta say you guys are not kidding.  The stuff squeezed out like warm dog poo squished between the fingers of a clinching fist.  I am going to start over with the right stuff.  I will post some pics tomorrow so people can get a visual. 


My motor thanks you!

[einsteingarage]

[ElCheapo]

Yep, this is exactly what I am talking about. With heat, oil, and vibration this rubbery lovely will break loose and clog something. And this is just one section of this, I'll bet as you go around the inside of the case this effect continues.

[einsteingarage]

Yes, you are correct.  It is everywhere on the inside.  Some of the top bolts you can feel that the hole is filled with sealer.  And just to repeat.  I felt as though I put too little on.