Topic: A new (but very amateur) enthusiast to CB550's

[Chaosbane22]

Hello All, I have recently come into a CB550 in essentially factory condition (I know some of you would kill for that!) and am trying to get it running in tip top shape again. A bit on my background, I have been reading this website for about a month but personally have almost 0 experience with gasoline engines in either cars/trucks/motorcycles.  I grew up on my grandparents 1,000 acre farm and am extremely familiar with big diesels (tractors/combines) but a huge noob when it comes to anything else.  Also, unfortunately my father has 0 mechanic skills so I am starting out on this path with a small knowledge base and tool set that I will be building up as I go.  So please forgive all the ridiculously dumb questions I will have concerning what things are/how they work. 

I'm currently on furlough (yay congress) from being a toxicologist and am ready to invest some time/money into the bike to put it back into mint condition. I am a new rider this year and went through the motorcycle safety course, got my license and have ridden my wife's bike (CBR 250 we got her after we took the class together) to commute all summer putting on about 4,000 miles.  I know i'm not the most experienced rider and I'm hoping that restoring this bike will make me an all around better motorcyclist.

Imgur Album

http://imgur.com/a/H2DEw

The good
-The motor runs very well from what I can tell, starts every time and idles well
-The carbs after a good cleaning have resulted in a solid start ups
-The bike is essentially off the line correct from what I can see (except for fork tubes and minor foot peg crap)

The Bad
-The bike has a wire shorting between two fuses, that can't be good
-The PO used 2 logging chains, one attached to a tree the other to a truck to "widen the handlebars a bit they were to narrow" .........................that cannot be a good thing
-I have extremely minor weeping around the head gasket and two penny sized indentations on both sides, but it drips once per month so extremely minor
-A local shade tree mechanic has told me to run "racing blue" high octane fuel through the engine which I have been doing and the carbs now look very clean but I just want some reassurance this isn't a terrible idea
-Have yet to run a compression test (buying tomorrow at harbor freight) but since the motor runs so well I hope all is well
-I (like an idiot) cruised up and down the country road to get practice on the bike on old tires.  I have been thoroughly chastised from reading this forum and having a rear tire blow out that i will never again ride on questionable rubber.............ever. (resulted in no negatives luckily for me even at 45 mph big thank you to MSF for that and my lack of panic)
-

The Ugly
-The PO was a giant (6'6") and I am not (5'10") so he made some aftermarket modifications that I'm hoping everyone can help me track down to raise the total bike height.  It is so tall I can only put one foot down at a time.
-It appears the PO dropped the bike and in the imgur album you can see the left side of the bike took a hit on the road and either that or someone with Herculean strength tightened down the brackets holding the foot pegs on and may have caused frame damage.  Having read lots of posts by the seemingly more knowledgeable posters it would appear that can be a huge danger and I have 0 interest in encountering it.  I need to know if the frame is bad and would appreciate all the advice input you can offer.  If you need better/more pictures than I put up I will gladly add them, just let me know what you need to see. 
-There is something really odd going on with my motor/throttle anytime I go above 4,000 rpms in any gear the rpms/mph drop like a rock.  I can get up to 55 mph by slowly increasing throttle but any snap movements on the throttle cause instant rpm drop/mph drop and it refuses to increase speed.  What in the hell is going on?


Things I would like to do/replace/restore
-electrical
-Front end/forks
-Brakes and new brake pads
-Replace handlebars
-Replace sprockets/chain (they look to be in great shape but I don't see why not if i'm doing the rest)
-Maybe replace head gasket if everyone thinks it's worth it?
-Maybe put on stainless steel brake lines?
-Rectify all the sins of the PO/long time storage


Like I said I am a noob and will need to purchase the tools to do the job right but I have already started on that.  If there is any big pitfalls/tips/help you guys can offer I will be very grateful.  If there are any forum members close to Cincinnati I would LOVE to get in touch and possibly get some help/tips and help with finding good shops/machinists/bead blasters/painters as the last 3 shops I have been to I came out extremely disappointed in what they knew.

I also have been considering tearing this bike down and making a cafe out of it, but I feel like that might be sacrilege as I got a mint condition 550 and would I be better served getting a bad shape 550/750 to go the cafe route?

Also, what else do I need to replace (other than oil/spark plugs done that) and I may not be aware of, like cables etc.?

I will be updating this thread regularly so please check back, Thank you!

[rb550four]

Hello and welcome,
Oh my, That is in nice shape, except for that frame issue, if you line the floor does it ride true? it really (to me ) looks like it was just squashed out of round then dropped perhaps the geometry is still within reason.
  Anyways, did you download or buy a shop manual? That is first, read it once to get the feel of it. Go through it the 2nd time and concentrate on a few particulars, like wiring harness and carbs. When you feel comfortable, do it. If you get jammed ask for assist , and whatever you do ,take pics.
  And really, if you want a cafe, get a 2nd bike in poor condition to practice on, if you aren't project oriented, you may end up finding it takes too long,too hard,or just screwing a nice machine up to the point that you'll have it on Craigslist with the "need this gone " quote attached.
    There are some interesting folks here and there is much knowledge, and yes there will be many who would rather see this stock. Keep this thread active so we can see your progress.

[Chaosbane22]

Yes I have the Clymer manual and will be printing the OEM manual today.

When you say "line the floor" what exactly do you mean? 

Thanks

[vma03]

Really nice bike...one of the cleanest starting projects that I have seen in my short time here.  My 500/550 is my firt bike as well so I'm doing many of the same things as you (although I'm starting from a complete basketcase).

One thing I noticed is your spark plugs look really sooty, so you might be running a little rich. But don't take my word for it, other more experienced members will chime in soon.

Looking forward to watching your progress.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Pretty clean start!  Not so much a fan of the forward foot pegs.  Those could go.   

[calj737]

Chaos - looks like the PO used longer than stock fork tubes to raise the ride height. Easy to replace the uppers with stock length. Bear in mind, when you change those, and replace the handlebars, you will also end up having to replace your throttle cables, brake cable and clutch cable. The PO must have used longer cables to reach the new position.

As for the frame cage where the highway bars were, looks ugly but from the pictures the welds look in tact. Unless the tubing feels "mushy" (squeeze the bent area with strong vise grips) you're probably okay. A frame shop (look around for a race car shop that builds track cars or dirt tracks, specializing in roll cages) can verify the integrity or replace/repair it for you pretty easily.

You asked about "lining the floor": run some lengths of tape or chalk lines on the floor of your garage, driveway, etc and roll the bike along it keeping the bars straight. See if it tracks straight down the line...a quick, non-scientific way to measure the straightness of your steering.

Keep the updates coming-

[mono]

Chaos - looks like the PO used longer than stock fork tubes to raise the ride height.

+1 to that.  if interested, i've got a spare set of 550 forks for sale -- they'd need new seals and oil, and a good polish, though.  PM me if interested and I'll get you some pics.  I'm in Toledo, so shipping wouldn't be too bad, or even pickup if you've got people in the area.

I don't think the slightly squashed downtubes on the frame are a big deal as that area of the frame is simply supporting weight in a downward direction (i'm sure other people will disagree with me at heart-attack levels about that, but whatev).  i have the exact same highway bars that came on a bike i got also -- those must have been popular lol.

[Bankerdanny]

Things I would like to do/replace/restore
-electrical is there obvious damage to be repaired? If not don't mess with the wiring, just clean and replace terminasl as necessary. Vintage Connections carries the correct replacement bullet connectors. Buy a bunch. I have a small plastic divided box with various sizes.
-Front end/forks Used stock tubes are easy to come by. If you want to pop for new, look up Forking By Frank in Evanston, IL
-Brakes and new brake pads Maybe. I used the 42 year old pads and shoes on my 7,000 mile 550 (the original drive chain too). It stopped just fine.
-Replace handlebars worth doing. Look at 'superbike' and 'euro' bars. I had the euros on my 550 and really liked them
-Replace cams/chain (they look to be in great shape but I don't see why not if i'm doing the rest)No. Maybe MAYBE the tensioner, but on a low mile bike the cam and chain should be just fine
-Maybe replace head gasket if everyone thinks it's worth it? Probably not worth it. Small oil leaks are very common and mostly annoying, it's really a personal call. Unless you want to build a pristine show bike I don't bother.
-Maybe put on stainless steel brake lines? this is a mostly cosmetic change. You might get a small improvement in brake feel, but it's a 40+ year old single brake system, it's never going to be better than '"sufficient". Again on my '77 I retained the original brake lines with no issues, but I can understand replacing rubber that old just because it is that old and new lines are not expensive.
-Rectify all the sins of the PO/long time storage

[TwoTired]

The Bad
-The bike has a wire shorting between two fuses, that can't be good

No, it's not.  You'll probably need a replacement fuse box.  The unit plugs into the wire harness.

-The PO used 2 logging chains, one attached to a tree the other to a truck to "widen the handlebars a bit they were to narrow" .........................that cannot be a good thing

Bars bend fairly easily.  Have had bent ones that I bent back to straight.  The only concern I would have is if the upper tree was cracked or the fork tubes bent during the process.  The tree seldom bend, but crack instead when stressed.  Examine for cracks, then new bars, you should be ok there.

-I have extremely minor weeping around the head gasket and two penny sized indentations on both sides, but it drips once per month so extremely minor

Not the head gasket, but the oil passage orings that are in the same plane.  I've had one weeping for 20 years.  Just wipe it off once a week.  I'm not that anal that the engine be leak free.  It just has to run well and not foul my attire while riding.

-A local shade tree mechanic has told me to run "racing blue" high octane fuel through the engine which I have been doing and the carbs now look very clean but I just want some reassurance this isn't a terrible idea

High octane is not a cleaner, though it may include other additives for that.  The bike only needs Regular grade gasoline, preferably without ethanol, though not an absolute requirement.  Just about any octane fuel without ethanol is preferable to one that has ethanol.

-Have yet to run a compression test (buying tomorrow at harbor freight) but since the motor runs so well I hope all is well

See the FAQ about using auto compression testers.  Or you might scare yourself.

The Ugly
-The PO was a giant (6'6") and I am not (5'10") so he made some aftermarket modifications that I'm hoping everyone can help me track down to raise the total bike height.  It is so tall I can only put one foot down at a time.

Extended forks.  Replace those and see.  Try to get the proper side stand at the same time.

I need to know if the frame is bad and would appreciate all the advice input you can offer. 

The frame down tubes look straight if a bit mashed.  Unsightly, but unlikely a safety or operation issue.  Its a shame that was done to an otherwise very nice survivor.

-There is something really odd going on with my motor/throttle anytime I go above 4,000 rpms in any gear the rpms/mph drop like a rock.  I can get up to 55 mph by slowly increasing throttle but any snap movements on the throttle cause instant rpm drop/mph drop and it refuses to increase speed.  What in the hell is going on?

Hard to say with only this description.  I'd start with observing the spark plug deposits with the engine stopped right after you had the "RPM drop". (Do you mean power loss/hesitation?)
I surmise that the engine doesn't die outright when this occurs.  So, describe how it recovers from the loss.  Burbles back into operation or sudden clean return to operation?

Do you know the particulars of the carb jetting?  Main jet size, slide needle position, and pilot screw setting?  Were these changed when the K&N filter replaced the stock air filter box?
Has the air filter been cleaned?

Things I would like to do/replace/restore
-electrical

Beyond the fuse panel, why?  Or, do you intend to clean restore all the connectors?  That would be good.

-Front end/forks

It would seem just the upper fork tubes and perhaps springs need original dimension parts.

-Brakes and new brake pads

Do refurbish the brake hydraulics.  But, if the pads aren't contaminated with oil or brake fluid, they should be fine until worn down to the red lines.

-Replace handlebars

Personal preference.  No argument.  I also like the 2 inch set back blocks added to the top tree bar mounts.

-Replace cams/chain (they look to be in great shape but I don't see why not if i'm doing the rest)

This can be trouble for a newb. (see bent valves as a result of not heeding the shop manual warnings)  And, with low miles, pretty unnecessary without good reason to replace.  Perhaps the drive chain and front sprocket.  Do the "pull chain away from sprocket" test.  And, check for chain wear "stretch" after cleaning.

-Maybe replace head gasket if everyone thinks it's worth it?

For a tiny oil weep? No.  It's not the head gasket anyway, just the oil passage orings.

-Maybe put on stainless steel brake lines?

I think this is a good idea.  And I do this to all my SOHC4s.  It sure made my brakes feel much more crisp for activation, and transferred much more hand pressure to the brake pads.  If not stainless, then new rubber lines will suffice.  If you reuse the originals use both hands to squeeze the lever at tight as you can, to test for pressure holding ability.  If it doesn't burst, it proves one element of safety.

-Rectify all the sins of the PO/long time storage

Patience, and dogged determination.

I also have been considering tearing this bike down and making a cafe out of it,

AAAKKK   
Get one a bad shape to become a project.  Ride this one (your soo close to streetable) while you work that project, if you must have another "me too" cafe. imo.

[seanbarney41]

...on that 4000rpm/55 mph issue, make sure your ignition advancer is not stuck...nice bike

[Seabass]

Welcome aboard!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

[Tews19]

Welcome to the site and great looking survivor! Subscribed!

[Chaosbane22]

Mono, PM was sent about those forks.

Two Tired, I was hoping you would show up to this thread, Thank you for all your input on each individual to-do list (and Bankerdanny).

As it stands, the consensus is that the frame does not need replaced, and the sprockets/chains do not need replaced.

For the electrical I am going to clean up the connectors and figure out exactly what's going on with that wire that jumps across fuses, perhaps a short/grounded wire somewhere is what I suspect going on.

Seanbarney, I'll be looking into the ignition advancer soon on your tip and hopefully I can rule that out as an issue or fix as needed.

Edit: Twotired, I forgot to mention that the stock airfilter was replaced with a new K&N Filter that is clean, but the Main jet size stock as far as I know, slide needle position moved up to top notch, and pilot screw setting I just want to clarify something here, on page 113 of the Clymers manual for the break down of the carbs for 550 are you calling the pilot screw setting the #14 adjustor screw? (and the main jet is #25, slide needle is #1/#15) is that correct?

[Bankerdanny]

Moving the clip up leans the mixture (clip up = needle down and deeper into the orifice on the emulsion tube). To the extent that any mod is necessary for the K&N you want to move the clip down.

Add the year and model of your bike into your signature. Your 550K uses different carbs than the 77-78 models, so ID'ing the year and model is important when answering questions related to carbs.

[LesterPiglet]

Just so you know. The things you are calling "cams" in your pictures are really sprockets. The cam (one) lives inside the cylinder head.

[TwoTired]

sprockets/chains do not need replaced.
I'm bot too sure about the front sprocket.  It is worn.  You still need to do the chain stretch test and the pull off sprocket test.  I will say they don't need immediate replacement.  But, it is not too far off in the future.

Edit: Twotired, I forgot to mention that the stock airfilter was replaced with a new K&N Filter that is clean, but the Main jet size stock as far as I know, slide needle position moved up to top notch,

This is probably your 4000 RPM problem.  The stock setting is 4th notch position from the top  (non pointy end) of the slide needle.  You may think you have a new bike after correcting that.

...and pilot screw setting I just want to clarify something here, on page 113 of the Clymers manual for the break down of the carbs for 550 are you calling the pilot screw setting the #14 adjustor screw? (and the main jet is #25, slide needle is #1/#15) is that correct?

Yes.  Check page #109 for adjustment setting.  However, due to the filter change, you may need to reduce the setting 1/2 turn or so from recommended to restore throttle response from low RPM under load conditions.  In any gear and at idle RPM, you should be able to snap the twist grip up to 1/2 of remaining travel and the engine still pick up speed reliably (if not not briskly) with no wheezing or stumble.

[Chaosbane22]

Lester, I went back and fixed the posts I know they are sprockets so I have no idea why I was calling them that but thank you for the catch.

Banker I'll be pulling the carbs off and double checking my work anyways in the near future and I'll make sure to take pictures and get clarification when i do so.

I'm currently pulling off the front brakes and have discovered that my front brake disc had some pitting/rust on it that I hadn't seen before and it has slightly chewed up the brake pads.  Do I need to replace the front brake disc and pads?

Pictures are here

http://imgur.com/a/C4IRk

[LesterPiglet]

Disc can be skimmed down to 4mm thick. If you can feel ridges with your fingernail skim them.

[TwoTired]

The brake pads will wear in to the rotor surface, used or new.  It's okay until it the red lines on the pad meet the rotor.

I don't like that rotor grooving, though.  How deep would you estimate?  Another rotor seems attractive if you can't get that one resurfaced.

[Bankerdanny]

Is the rotor discolored or is it just a trick of the photo? Disks aren't hard to come by or very expensive. If you are at all uncomfortable just replace it.

[Chaosbane22]

That rotor is discoloration is not a trick of the light, that is how it looks.  I think at this point I'll start fishing around for a new front disc. 

On a related note, but who would I even go to to ask about a rotor resurface?  Can any auto shop or something similar do it, or does it need to go out to a machinist? 

Sorry for the dumb questions but I'm definitely a first timer lol.

[LesterPiglet]

Someone on this forum does it though I can't remember his name at the moment.
A quick search found this.    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=47948.0

[TwoTired]

Discoloration I wouldn't worry much about regarding the rotor. Grooves are a different story.  Dragging brake pads can cause the discoloration, though, and should be repaired.

Scuff it with 400 Grit sand paper to differentiate surface color form actual grooves.

[Chaosbane22]

I was thinking about picking this up for my cafe, and just leaving it in storage until the 550 is all buttoned up.  Does this seem like a good deal/year/model?

Included are "There are also new wheel bearings, master cylinder rebuild kits, piston pin circlips The tires are new. I bought handlebars from Flanders, the bolt kit from GW.  A second case with clutch, gear set and starter. A second complete head. Two mufflers, two handlebars. A complete gasket kit a head gasket kit with seals. A cylinder hone, a garner/wescott bolt kit for the side covers."


http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/mcy/4134005815.html

[TwoTired]

That seems like a lot to take on for an amateur.  Are you patient, have lots of time, methodical, prone to prior study before doing?  Ready for the long haul, or crave instant gratification?
Do you have a natural mechanical aptitude?  Have you ever dismantled a bike or machine before? 
It is one thing to take a machine apart and then put it back together.  It is quite another to assemble an unfamiliar machine from parts only.
In this case, you can't reasonably assess if all the parts to the bike are even there.  Paying for a lot of trust there.

Most start off their self training with a rolling restoration rather than a ground up build from scattered pieces.  Even the motor is dismantled and there are quite a few nuances inside that to bite your bottom.

I have three of those bikes complete.  They are nice bikes for sure.  But, you are probably looking at adding another couple thousand, to make streetable.

If you had experience, $600 isn't an awful figure for the parts collection, particularly if you had need for some of the parts on another machine.  As to making this bike whole again, it is a gamble.  Its a plus if the parts are bagged and boxed with labels.  A large minus if not, particularly with your level of familiarity.

This F engine has a special head for higher power, that can be prone to valve guide/valve issues.  Other heads can be grafted on but not just any CB750 head.  Does the present owner know this and get the proper head for it?

A lot depends on you if this is a good deal or not.  Not sure I'd give $600 for it as it is now.  The most I've paid for a whole complete CB750 F model was $500 that I could ride home (with only the rear brake operating).  The other two were $300 and $Free, that were whole (mostly) but came home in the truck bed.  That was 10-15 years ago, though.

Good luck!