Author Topic: CB350f Performance Questions  (Read 11510 times)

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Offline s_vandise

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CB350f Performance Questions
« on: October 18, 2013, 02:55:45 pm »
I've worked/collected honda's 350 twin bikes and acquired a '74 350 four a few months back.
This bike needed a lot of work, rebuilt the upper engine, brakes, electrical, etc, hence the reason I've only gotten to enjoy riding it this past month.

My experience with the twins, (I'm a 155lb rider) is that in high gear between 4500+ rpm that it accelerates rather efficiently above and beyond 60. The 350four...Not a whole lot happening below 5500+. I would suspect this considering I used the stock 47mm pistons.

What I've noticed is while I'm cursing along in high gear around 5500rpm that it accelerates rather slowly to around 60 and then begins to pick up the pace. I don't suspect any carb issues as In 4th I can easily go past 8k (but prefer not) rpm and accelerate reasonably in high. It also has a lot of "giddy up" that makes me all excited inside. I'm considering to redo/clean the carbs as the tank wasn't spotless of rust (and the petcock filter doesn't catch everything).

I'm curious to what other 350f owners have experienced with acceleration on their bikes.

Some bike specs:
Aftermarket 4-4 exhaust system (carb jetting didn't have to be changed)
Carbs have been rebuilt with all stock jets, needles, gaskets, floats, and cleaned several times with chem dip
original ignition, new points/spark plugs/rocker arms gapped properly, bikes timed perfectly.
'73 CL350 | '74 CB350f | '73 SL350 | '71 triumph t120R

Offline bender01

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2013, 05:31:25 pm »
Ive had both and the four was smooth but not peppy til it was wound up! Its been four or five years but don't they redline at 10,500? I used to redline mine or close all the time!
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So, the strategy is to lie to people you are asking for help?

I think I'll be busy going for a ride.

Good luck!
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Offline dave500

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2013, 07:11:07 pm »
just downshift it next time.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2013, 07:31:15 pm »
When the 350F debuted in 1972, Cycle Magazine loved it until they took it to the drag strip with their "shop" CB350 twin. The Twin beat the Four at the strip, handily. They both make about the same 36 HP in stock trim, but the Four is almost 80 lbs heavier. It isn't a 'performance' machine.

In response to those scathing reviews (and Cycle was the original "we love Hondas" rag in those days) Honda made the CB400F, a whole 'nuther kind of ride, with lower gear ratios, a 6-speed close-ratio gearbox that is easily the best of the SOHC4 collection, and almost 10 HP more, nudging the CB550F from behind.

The 350F also came in a 250F version, all the same except the piston size, and a lighter crankshaft (and smaller valves), IIRC. This suggested just how popular the Fours were in Japan and some Euro countries, more for the cool factor than anything else: the 250 only makes about 17 HP! There were/are some awful taxes on bikes bigger than 251cc in those countries.

The 350F is probably the smoothest bike Honda ever built, when it is set up right and tuned well. It was also so insanely quiet that you could not hear it running in traffic! And, it will wind clear off the tach: so does the 400F, without a whimper. The cam on the 350F doesn't start its show until 5500 RPM, and the 400F until 7000 RPM. They live to rev!

One of the more interesting facets of the Baby Fours is their incredible durability, when compared to the Twins of the same displacement. The Fours will easily run well past 50K miles with nothing more than oil changes and tuneups now and then, while the Twins rarely reached over 25k miles without significant help. In the days of 55 MPH speed limits, the 350F/400F bikes were seen touring the interstates everywhere, often 2-up, some even pushing Windjammer fairings (I even installed some of those myself on them), happy as can be!

It took me over 35 years to finally get one myself. It's a wreck in appearance, but it looks like a gem in the rough to me: next summer it will rise again. :D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline tomkimberly

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2013, 09:19:16 pm »
Any 350F runs best at 9-10k RPM, anything lower and you're not riding it right.


Tom


Offline flybox1

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 09:41:53 pm »
Downshift.
 5500rpm is to low to get good acceleration on throttle twist.  Get it up above 6500 and then hammer it.   8)
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
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Offline dave500

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2013, 09:45:34 pm »
downshift,if you aint spinning at 6500 your out of the power band and only cruising,these have a pretty short stroke,the actual piston speed is slow compared to the rpm.

Offline kghost

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2013, 09:55:12 pm »
I'll comment since I have one of each.....

Spin it up 6000+ is its happy place.
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Offline HondanutRider

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2013, 06:50:10 am »
s_vandise, you have correctly identified the traits of the 350 Four.  But isn't it a lovely machine to ride and admire? ;)

I have a low-mileage 1974 model of the CB350-F, as well a 1962 CB77 that I used to ride a lot in the 1960's.  I've ridden both back-to-back and can attest that the CB77 is definitely the quicker of the two.  But that 350 Four is sooo smooth. 8)

Offline s_vandise

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2013, 07:13:23 pm »
Thanks everyone for the input, and HondaMan for your thorough answer. I really do love this machine and I worked really hard to bring it back to it's former glory. It's a vary unique riding experience and interesting machine to work on. Still needs some adjustments, but I have all winter.

Mine once was a train wreck, but it's turning into a thing of beauty.
Before:

After: (Tank only has a base coat on, too cold and humid to paint for now)
'73 CL350 | '74 CB350f | '73 SL350 | '71 triumph t120R

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2013, 08:02:02 pm »
...but it's turning into a thing of beauty.
Before:

After: (Tank only has a base coat on, too cold and humid to paint for now)


Wow, is THAT an understatement!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline Shane72

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2013, 10:28:36 am »

...while I'm cursing along in high gear...


I do that all the time.

Shane
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Offline flybox1

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2013, 10:40:18 am »
Whats the status of your air filter? 
Emulsion tubes are clean of debris? Not just chem dipped.  I mean pulled out, inspected, cleaned and replaced.

I would bet a lean mid range.  your pipes may be more free-flowing than OEM.
Drop needle clip one position, and go up to #78 jets.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline s_vandise

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2013, 11:53:28 am »
Whats the status of your air filter? 
Emulsion tubes are clean of debris? Not just chem dipped.  I mean pulled out, inspected, cleaned and replaced.

I would bet a lean mid range.  your pipes may be more free-flowing than OEM.
Drop needle clip one position, and go up to #78 jets.

The previous air filter wasn't bad but I did replace it just this morning. Everything literally has been cleaned by hand as well as chem dip (chem dip didn't eat away all the old fuel rosin). I was going to try different jets just to see if there was any noticeable difference (I believe I have #75's in now). With the new filter and a plug check it's running a little more lean than I would like so I'll take your advice and give it a go before the snow comes :D

Wow, is THAT an understatement!

Heh thanks. Took over 300 hours of dedication and countless failed attempts over the months. It isn't and won't ever be perfect; but that's the beauty of it.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 12:10:24 pm by s_vandise »
'73 CL350 | '74 CB350f | '73 SL350 | '71 triumph t120R

Offline flybox1

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2013, 12:02:01 pm »
#80 mains would work too.  its only .000787"  more  ;D
let us know how it goes.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2013, 12:09:31 pm »
I would bet a lean mid range.  your pipes may be more free-flowing than OEM.
Drop needle clip one position, and go up to #78 jets.

 ??? From picture, exhaust looks stock.

Offline s_vandise

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2013, 12:21:04 pm »

 ??? From picture, exhaust looks stock.


I ordered them from Sport Wheels here in Minnesota for $550. They said they were lightly used but I didn't even notice a scratch or slight sign of rusting. I assume aftermarket considering the quality.

[/quote]
#80 mains would work too.  its only .000787"  more  ;D
let us know how it goes.

Will do. It's a matter of whether or not the USPS can beat the snow now  ;D
'73 CL350 | '74 CB350f | '73 SL350 | '71 triumph t120R

Offline flybox1

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2013, 12:28:37 pm »
chrome on OEM mufflers was thin and pitted easily.
if those are OEM's, you scored @$550  :o
any stampings on them?
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline s_vandise

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2013, 12:41:20 pm »
There are. Not sure if all are stamped  "HMCB350F IR HM333" on the bottom, but it's what's on the bottom right muffler. I didn't ask too many questions when Sport Wheels said they acquired a 4-4 exhaust system for the 350F and mentioned the price.
'73 CL350 | '74 CB350f | '73 SL350 | '71 triumph t120R

Offline knowsnothing

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2013, 12:43:19 pm »
Any 350F runs best at 9-10k RPM, anything lower and you're not riding it right.


Tom

+100  ;D
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2013, 10:11:39 pm »
There are. Not sure if all are stamped  "HMCB350F IR HM333" on the bottom, but it's what's on the bottom right muffler. I didn't ask too many questions when Sport Wheels said they acquired a 4-4 exhaust system for the 350F and mentioned the price.

If they ever come up with another set, have them call me?
Mine are terrible...

The stamping you mention may be for "Inner Right" pipe (the "IR" designation).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline lucky

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2013, 10:27:42 am »
I was a Honda mechanic at that time.
The CB350 twins had a lot of vibration compared to the 350F.
The interstate freeway system had just finished being built, so many riders wanted bikes that could go long distances at 70 mph which was the speed limit at that time. The 400F was perfect.

The fours were glass smooth.
I waited until the 400F was introduced and bought one of the first ones.
It had the 6 speed gearbox and that made it a lot better than the 350F.
The 400F looked better too.

You might try one less tooth on the countershaft.
It just depends how much freeway driving you do.
If you drive mostly  on country roads then change that countershaft sprocket.
(Front  sprocket) to the younger guys. LOL

Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2013, 11:23:00 am »
The 350 Four is like a good friend, robust and reliable. Soichiro Honda himself considered it his best bike. Early '80s me and my girl did a six weeks trip through France, Italy and Greece, totalling 10.000 km. The only problem she encountered - in a blazing hot Peloponnesos - was a front brake that got stuck. It was easily freed by a helpful Greek tractor mechanic. My friend was comfortable following me at 130 km/h for hours on end. Ofcourse you'll have some crosswind every now and then. Nothing to worry about, so do I on my 500 which is only 13kg heavier. A trained bikerider knows he will not be 'blown away'. It's one of these jokes that's echoed over and over again, mostly by people that have set their mind on a weightier bike anyway.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 11:24:56 am by Deltarider »
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Offline HondanutRider

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2013, 11:37:08 am »
I was a Honda mechanic at that time.
The CB350 twins had a lot of vibration compared to the 350F.
The interstate freeway system had just finished being built, so many riders wanted bikes that could go long distances at 70 mph which was the speed limit at that time. The 400F was perfect.

The fours were glass smooth.
I waited until the 400F was introduced and bought one of the first ones.
It had the 6 speed gearbox and that made it a lot better than the 350F.
The 400F looked better too.

You might try one less tooth on the countershaft.
It just depends how much freeway driving you do.
If you drive mostly  on country roads then change that countershaft sprocket.
(Front  sprocket) to the younger guys. LOL

Lucky, would you also consider putting an O-ring chain on it too? ;)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB350f Performance Questions
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2013, 09:36:07 pm »
I was a Honda mechanic at that time.
The CB350 twins had a lot of vibration compared to the 350F.
The interstate freeway system had just finished being built, so many riders wanted bikes that could go long distances at 70 mph which was the speed limit at that time. The 400F was perfect.

The fours were glass smooth.
I waited until the 400F was introduced and bought one of the first ones.
It had the 6 speed gearbox and that made it a lot better than the 350F.
The 400F looked better too.

You might try one less tooth on the countershaft.
It just depends how much freeway driving you do.
If you drive mostly  on country roads then change that countershaft sprocket.
(Front  sprocket) to the younger guys. LOL

Lucky, would you also consider putting an O-ring chain on it too? ;)

The 350 Four is like a good friend, robust and reliable. Soichiro Honda himself considered it his best bike. Early '80s me and my girl did a six weeks trip through France, Italy and Greece, totalling 10.000 km. The only problem she encountered - in a blazing hot Peloponnesos - was a front brake that got stuck. It was easily freed by a helpful Greek tractor mechanic. My friend was comfortable following me at 130 km/h for hours on end. Ofcourse you'll have some crosswind every now and then. Nothing to worry about, so do I on my 500 which is only 13kg heavier. A trained bikerider knows he will not be 'blown away'. It's one of these jokes that's echoed over and over again, mostly by people that have set their mind on a weightier bike anyway.

Delta: did you also know it was the only Honda that Sochiro actually bought for himself? After he stepped down as head of Honda in 1973 he rode it to work on the production lines (he liked to work alongside his employees, wearing the white coveralls with everyone else!).

There is a fellow here in Colorado who has a custom bike shop: he is a Japanese immigrant (1984) who worked at Honda when he was in High School (equivalent) on the production lines, and worked many times next to the aged Sochiro. His name is Axel (fitting for his shop?), and he said Sochiro was 'just a normal guy like everyone else, loved to work on engines'. And, he was still riding his 350F to work when Axel knew him!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com