Topic: Trad's 74 CB550 K0

[Trad]

double post........

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

$300 CAN for all that!? Score!!!!

[Trad]

$300 CAN for all that!? Score!!!!

And........the wheels, tires, carbs, clocks, and seat that aren't pictured. Lucked out! Someone needed this stuff out of their basement and basically paid me to haul it out myself.

[Trad]

Well, here's a few updates.

I have a bunch of bits at the powdercoater's still. I forgot a few at home so I'm thinking I'll need to do a round 2 with them unfortunately.

I ended up buying all OEM Honda oil seals and o-rings for the bottom end. I found this thread which was extremely helpful. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=82355.0

I also have spent a lot of time stripping a bunch of gloss black powder coated engine covers I had. My fingers are riddled in blisters but I have the shifter cover, stator cover, and points covers all sanded from 220-320-400-Scotchbrite scuffing all the same direction to a nice, uniform brushed finish. I took all the casting marks out with a high speed. The clutch cover had a lot of gouges hiding under the powder so it's slowly coming along. I got fed up and quite for the day.

In addition to all the crankcase parts I also ordered a Diamond Performance 102 link drive chain, NOS clutch cover lever adjustment arm (the threaded head on mine was stripped), as well as the 6 genuine Honda clutch friction disks and the one "B" disk which goes in last.

The Hagon 2810 shocks are scheduled to be delivered tomorrow! Christina at Hagon USA was one of the best sales people I've ever dealt with. I went with black bodies, chrome (Non-slimline) springs, and 16KG springs which are 90lbs progressive. I should really be able to take advantage of the 10 click dampening adjustement with that spring. I also got the 18KG spring just in case

I'll get some photos once all the parts arrive and the clutch cover is finished.

This build is putting me in the poor house. 

Lastly, Mark is almost done buttoning up the GME 550 build so my crank case is up next.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

What's Mark (HM) doing to the crank - balance, knife-edge?

[Trad]

What's Mark (HM) doing to the crank - balance, knife-edge?

He's replacing the Primary and Cam chains with NOS pieces I have along with all the oil seals and o-rings. Basically go over the whole crankcasel with a fine tooth comb and let his OCD rome. haha.

Once that's back I'll be installing the top end and degreeing the Webcam. I can't friggin wait.

[Trad]

A little update; more parts to the horde.

The Hagon 2810 shocks came in. I decided to get the both the 16KG spring (90-110lbs progressive) and the 18kg springs (110-130lbs progressive). I'm kind of in between so I thought I'd try out both. I should be able to get the most of the 10 click dampening adjustment with the 16kg's. Going to start there and see how it feels. Christina is a great sales rep over at Hagon USA. The Wideline springs are now discontinued and she was able to have the last pair air shipped from the UK for me at no extra cost. I can't say enough good things about her.

I was debating between these and the Ikon 7610 shocks. I only went with the Hagon's because they were a 335mm length as opposed to the 228mm of the Ikon. I want all the rear tire clearance as I can. Christina's customer service also helped sway me too.

Next is the Diamond 530 chain in 102 length (part number 530102). I've heard nothing but good things about these so opted to give it a shot. The whole chain is shot peened; I guess all the extra strength you can get the better.

Lastly, a new old stock clutch adjustment arm. Mine looked worse for wear so I figured there's no point in cheeping out at this point. Hopefully I can get some time in on the bike soon. I've been away from home so much lately I haven't touched it in over a month.

The clutch cover is about half way through being refinished. I took out all the nicks and casting marks and been going up from there. I'll stop at 600 then brush finish it with red scotchbrite. This will finish match the other engine covers and the seat.

More PArts to the horde by Jared Chilko, on Flickr

[Trad]

I've been weighing on this a bit and figured I'd try to get some opinions from you guys who've been here before of similar. It's regarding the top end components for this bike. Here's the rundown, my options, and the dilemma.

Cylinder Head: Rebuilt by Mike Rieck (valve job, porting, stock valves, guides, HD valve springs, 5thou milled of the deck)

Cylinder/Pistons: JE 572cc Forged pistons (10-1 Compression), Piston to Wall Clearance to 2.8 thou all done by Mikes machinist. Cylinder decked 5 thou.

Rocker Cover: 77-78 pinned style with all NOS Rocker arms and components.

Camshaft: Here's the dilemma. I have a really nice CB650 cam. (It's used so it shows some normal wear, but it's of the cleanest I've seen). I also have a brand new Webcam 358a.

I've done penalty of top end rebuilds and CB650 cam swaps. Just pop them in on the stock timing marks and go. You know what you're getting. My worry is I've never used a used cam with new rockers. I like to grab the matching rockers to the cam. Should I be worried about wiping a cam lobe here?

I can use the Webcam, but I've heard stories of them being quite out as far as TDC on the stock timing marks and cam notch. I've never degreed a cam and almost feel like it's a lot of pissing around.

I feel safer using the 650 cam but feel the Webcam would be the more proper way to go, especially after dumping so much coin into this engine.

[flatlander]

why stock valves? go oversize to fill those cylinders!

if you go with the webcam make sure you get hardweld rockers also. the 650 cam is optimised for emission control and not for performance. i'm pretty sure webcam will make you happier (unless you are very concerned about clean air).
you'll have to degree it in and to be honest, it will be a bit fiddly and it will take time so don't rush it. but it's completely doable. go for it!

[Trad]

Hey Cal,

I know it's doable but I looks like a really PITA. You need to cut up an old valve cover so you can adjust the cam sprocket and I don't really want to wreck any of my spares. Ah well, I should just learn it.

[Trad]

why stock valves? go oversize to fill those cylinders!

if you go with the webcam make sure you get hardweld rockers also. the 650 cam is optimised for emission control and not for performance. i'm pretty sure webcam will make you happier (unless you are very concerned about clean air).
you'll have to degree it in and to be honest, it will be a bit fiddly and it will take time so don't rush it. but it's completely doable. go for it!

I've been told my multiple sources including Buzz at Dynoman that the NOS rocker arms will be just fine with the Webcam. New with new. It's when you drop the new hardwelded cam in with used rockers, that you start to see a problems. 

It's the fiddly part I'm dreading. 

[flatlander]

i missed the fact that you had new rocker arms. still... it would give me a better feeling to use parts with matching hardness, just seems to make sense to prevent uneven wear. but maybe somebody with more knowledge can comment?

even i could do the fiddly part and i consider myself quite an amateur wrencher compared to some others on this site. if i can do it so can you 

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I think Buzz probably qualifies, but perhaps you are looking for the logic behind his answer, right?

[flatlander]

right. i'm sure buzz knows what he's talking about but would like to understand. especially after i maybe unnecessarily splashed out on hardweld rockers 

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

For my recent 650 build, I did purchase a Megacycle hardweld cam and had Megacycle hardweld my used rockers. 

I do not think it is necessary if you use a billet cam and your stock rockers in good condition.

[Trad]

I hear that. I'd consider myself fairly advanced mechanically, been working on bikes/cars since a kid. It's just I've never done degreeing and all the threads I come across, It seems as though everyone is pulling their hair out. Especially with these cams.

I'm probably going to toss the 650 cam in and be done. Call me what you will. haha

[flatlander]

don, i have a hardweld cam from megacycle, and got hardweld rockers with it. same as you did.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

No shame in that and no need for hardweld rockers.

[flatlander]

LOL i'm not ashamed of the rockers. it's all those mods that bother me.

[Trad]

The biggest thing is having new with new. Hardwelded rockers are a good option for many as it's likely easier than finding 8 new rocker arms.

[Camrector]

Why 572 Pistons?

[Trad]

I went 572 because it leaves a bit more meat on the cylinder sleeves. 61mm is the largest you can go and the sleeves are mighty thin at that point. These are the JE flat tops that have been around for decades and have proven dead reliable. All this info coming from Buzz at Dynoman of coarse.

[Trad]

Hey Cal,

I know it's doable but I looks like a really PITA. You need to cut up an old valve cover so you can adjust the cam sprocket and I don't really want to wreck any of my spares. Ah well, I should just learn it.

Nope. You mill a slot in the cam sprocket and with the cove off, you degree the cam. Then install the cover. Or you buy and adjustable cam sprocket from the get-go. Remember, the sprocket is attached to the head, not the cover.

I have both an adjustable cam sprocket and a standard. I mean you cut a spare cover to use for the degreeing only. So you don't have to pull the rocker cover several times to adjust the cam sprocket while in the degreeing process. Then put your permanent cover on once cam timing is dialled in. I fully understand the process my man! 

Edit: you cut the  temp cover so you can get to the cam bolts with the rocker cover on during degreeing.. Make sense?

[flatlander]

yes that makes the process quicker and easier as you don't need to take the cover off to make adjustments to the sprocket positioning. but it's not necessary. you can do it without, it only takes a bit more time.

I fully understand the process my man! 

you do - now put it in practice 

[bwaller]

True it's not complete necessity, but a modified cover saves huge time. If you have a junky early model cover do yourself a favour.