Author Topic: Oil  (Read 9993 times)

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Offline Jim F

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Re: Oil
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2013, 07:51:28 AM »
I use Brad Penn in my turbo as its great for turbos that have plain bearings
some of the drag racers that Im around also use it.
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
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Offline spiritof67

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Re: Oil
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2013, 05:36:36 PM »
Sorry, away with health issues, interesting information here. But before I start using Harley 20w-50, is there an actual recommendation here about what to use in a 10.5 to 1/836cc/Andrews cam/oil cooler street motor? It has been my understanding with all my other '70s motorcycles that synthetic was to be avoided for wet clutch reasons. Is this correct?

Anybody want t step up to an actual recommendation? PS: I use my auto oil filter add-on instead of the Honda paper umbrella in a cup.

Offline Tintop

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Re: Oil
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2013, 06:16:36 PM »
There are motorcycle specific synthetics that are formulated to work with wet clutches (read the label).  It is friction modifiers (in automative oils) that are death to a wet clutch in motorcycles, doesn't matter if it a dino or synth.  You should never use synthetics in a new engine, as it will impair the ability of the rings to seat properly.

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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Oil
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2013, 06:29:32 PM »
You almost lost me with HD reference........................SHELL Rotella T is often recommended for Cummins and CAT diesel motors. You have elevated compression but less than a hot diesel.

Regarding the ATF............I use 3 full quarts of oil and fill to the recommended level with ATF.  I don't notice anything different and my clutch feels like new with over 70,000 miles.

BTW........I run a wet clutch on my Triumph Salt-Flats bike........BUT.............I run a dry primary case to cut down on drag. I soak the clutch fibers in ATF before assembly.  No problems to date.

I'm old school with a lot of practical advice from long-time tuners and motor builders. My first hands-on rebuild experience was in 1973 for Bobby Rahall at Road America. I really appreciate the oil-test data and the zinc information provided in this thread. 
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline KJ790

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Re: Oil
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2013, 09:54:55 AM »
You almost lost me with HD reference........................SHELL Rotella T is often recommended for Cummins and CAT diesel motors. You have elevated compression but less than a hot diesel.

Regarding the ATF............I use 3 full quarts of oil and fill to the recommended level with ATF.  I don't notice anything different and my clutch feels like new with over 70,000 miles.

BTW........I run a wet clutch on my Triumph Salt-Flats bike........BUT.............I run a dry primary case to cut down on drag. I soak the clutch fibers in ATF before assembly.  No problems to date.

I'm old school with a lot of practical advice from long-time tuners and motor builders. My first hands-on rebuild experience was in 1973 for Bobby Rahall at Road America. I really appreciate the oil-test data and the zinc information provided in this thread.

ATF won't hurt a wet clutch at all. If you take apart an automatic transmission you will find a wet clutch set-up inside almost identical to that of a motorcycle. ATF is a popular oil in the two stroke motocross world where the oil is only lubricating the transmission and the clutch. I have no idea how well ATF works as a motor oil though.
The most dangerous part of a motorcycle is the nut that connects the handlebars to the footpegs.

Offline spiritof67

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Re: Oil
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2013, 01:13:15 PM »
The "HD" reference was Harley Davidson sells a 20w/50 oil. Most sport bike shops only carry 10/30 and 10/40. CB's aren't high oil pressure engines and are plain bearing ones at that, so I don't want a too-thin oil or a car oil. And let's be honest, the HD oil is for hot running engines, most of which won't have oil coolers.....

Offline Jim F

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Re: Oil
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2013, 01:46:47 PM »
If 75 PSI isn't a high pressure motor then what is might I ask?
My GS is a rollor bearing crank and there is very little pressure
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline spiritof67

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Re: Oil
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2013, 08:54:45 PM »
None of my CB750's ever showed anything like 75lb of oil pressure....ever. Even when new. Is that the expected level for a stock motor?

Offline PeWe

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Re: Oil
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2013, 03:46:09 AM »
Time for a sticky oil thread with serious oil recommendations for our CB's. 
Old Honda specified Catrol GTX is no longer possible to order.  Middle of the 80's replaced by GTX2, then 3...

No friction modifiers as car oils have. Wet Clutch specified [JASO MA], plus oils that works fine but without this on the label
ZDDP levels declared.
Low ash content... A famous diesel oil from Shell might have problem here..
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=33792.0;wap2

Break-in oil, normal riding, harder driving and racing.
Viscosities depending on temperature
Most bang for the buck oil.
- Is mineral oil better in general for the old CB technology?

EDIT: Interesting thread here: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?56488-Zddp
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 03:51:30 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline KJ790

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Re: Oil
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2013, 04:33:30 AM »
Time for a sticky oil thread with serious oil recommendations for our CB's. 
Old Honda specified Catrol GTX is no longer possible to order.  Middle of the 80's replaced by GTX2, then 3...

No friction modifiers as car oils have. Wet Clutch specified [JASO MA], plus oils that works fine but without this on the label
ZDDP levels declared.
Low ash content... A famous diesel oil from Shell might have problem here..
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=33792.0;wap2

Break-in oil, normal riding, harder driving and racing.
Viscosities depending on temperature
Most bang for the buck oil.
- Is mineral oil better in general for the old CB technology?

EDIT: Interesting thread here: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?56488-Zddp

Shell Rotella T 15w40 is JASO-MA certified, it's right on the bottle. That article is not correct about it not meeting the requirements.
The most dangerous part of a motorcycle is the nut that connects the handlebars to the footpegs.

Offline spiritof67

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Re: Oil
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2013, 05:54:37 AM »
Does that make Shell Rotella 15w/40 "The One" then?

Offline KJ790

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Re: Oil
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2013, 05:43:39 AM »
When it comes to oil I don't believe that there is anything you can really call "the one". Top level racers have different requirements from the guy who tools around town running errands on the weekend on his bike. I say find an oil that meets your requirements and enjoy the ride. Everyone will have their own opinions on what the best oil is to use for easy street riding, and in many cases they are all right, as pretty much every oil recommended by anyone with any sort of merit will work for an average street rider.
The most dangerous part of a motorcycle is the nut that connects the handlebars to the footpegs.

Offline spiritof67

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Re: Oil
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2013, 12:00:35 PM »
All the ads I read about Rotella make it sound like it's only for diesel and ATV's. The testimony here sounds like I'll try the Rotella T 15w-40. Unless I use Harley 20w-50, of course.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Oil
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2013, 12:07:16 PM »
And just what is wrong with oil distributed by Honda? 


...for Honda engines.
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Offline City Boy

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Re: Oil
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2013, 12:13:57 PM »
Nothing except price likely !!
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Offline KJ790

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Re: Oil
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2013, 02:39:17 PM »
And just what is wrong with oil distributed by Honda? 


...for Honda engines.

I haven't done any testing on the Honda oil, but if it is anything like the oil distributed by Yamaha or Suzuki then I wouldn't bother. Those other ones are high priced and low quality.
The most dangerous part of a motorcycle is the nut that connects the handlebars to the footpegs.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Oil
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2013, 04:44:41 PM »
As long as your into reading................http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
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Offline spiritof67

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Re: Oil
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2013, 02:13:11 PM »
As for "What's wrong with Honda oil", the responses are correct: it's overpriced. I can buy known high quality oil made specifically for motorcycles at 2/3 the price or less that "Honda's" oil - which, for the record, was neither produced nor available way 'back when the CB750 was produced. That, and Honda shops are not ubiquitous where I live.

That's why I made the comment about "Harley oil"; there are more H-D shops near me that have 20w/50 for sale right now than there are Honda which has to order them. By the way, I think part of this has to do with keeping Honda's flat rate up to snuff by keeping oil changes economical enough for a shop to do. Makes sense. Just doesn't benefit me.

And yes, I'd enjoy a really interesting exchange (i.e., a real "sticky") about oil. What I will say I would not enjoy would be a slanging session, he-said/he-said, over opinionated diatribe session on the subject and I doubt anyone else would either.

So, minimal parameters set, let's discuss the specific question of recommended oils for CB750 use, separately whether certain ones are better for street, higher displacement, etc. And thank all of the respondents for their testimony.

Offline heffay

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Re: Oil
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2013, 02:17:20 PM »
At least our oil threads aren't this wacky!   ;D

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Offline spiritof67

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Re: Oil
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2013, 03:06:19 PM »
Yeah, hard to believe, isn't it?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Oil
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2013, 03:15:40 PM »
As for "What's wrong with Honda oil", the responses are correct: it's overpriced.
Here is a rationale to consider.
Honda has no incentive to recommend an oil that isn't acceptable for use in their engines.

I won't argue that it is more expensive.  But, so are engine parts replacements and the inconvenience of repair.  And, it will take a lot of oil change money to break even on an engine overhaul.

I use Honda oil, as I notice smother transmission operation with semi synthetics .  But, I get similar and safe operation when using JASO rated oils as well.

If the real goal is to cheap out or use what is personally convenient, be aware you are trading the short term experience for some risk of engine life and cost to repair.

I've never heard of an engine failure due to the use of the proper Honda oil (or JASO rated product).


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Offline City Boy

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Re: Oil
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2013, 06:14:52 PM »
I have been a fan of Rotella for a while now.What really led me there in the first place was the fact Porsche called for it in their aircooled vehicles.I figured this leader in technology had done the due diligence before recommending it.Also,I figure if it can keep huge truck diesels alive our engines are childsplay.It is about half the cost of Yama Suzi Honda HD oil in Ontario.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Oil
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2013, 08:32:37 PM »
well as this thread hasn't degenerated into a slagging match yet ,    i use lucas fully synthetic 20/50 oil in all the air cooled bikes [ including a laverda race bike ] and the engines all look good when stripped .

Hopefully it won't end up in a slanging match Simon, if it starts to maybe Sam can delete the useless posts... ;)  The full synthetic doesn't hurt the clutch then..? Does it say anything about friction modifiers at all..?  Does it have any Zinc in it..?   ;)

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Offline Tintop

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Re: Oil
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2013, 09:45:41 AM »
Sam is watching this thread, he just told me. hahahahahah.

The slippery oil goes in the engine Sam; rubbing all over your suit won't improve the ET.   As for desk clerks and body oil, I'm not going there. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread