Topic: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife

[MoMo]

Doesn't a '77 400F have the pegs attached to the frame?

No, but they are forward mounted rather than rear set like the earlier models, seems American riders during the 70s wanted the upright riding style so Honda moved the pegs and put on higher handlebars...Larry

[NobleHops]

Doesn't a '77 400F have the pegs attached to the frame?

Yaknow, I swear I read that too somewhere, but then I found conflicting info and photos to the contrary somewhere too. Lemme see if I can get MoMo to look at my pics and compare the foot peg position to a 75 or 76/. That's the real telltale I think.

Imma go get my VIN and engine numbers too, see if they all align. Frame was powdercoated prior to my ownership so anything is possible. Could be a mismatched or modified frame with the VIN plate swapped. Bike is titled in CA as a 77 and wore correct tank and side covers.

What about my fenders? Those correct for a 77 with a single stay?


EDIT: ...and while I pecked that out, along he swam. Hey Larry, does all that other stuff look correct on my bike for the moment, other than the low bars?

[NobleHops]

...and correct me if I'm wrong Felix, but weren't you referring to the pillion pegs on the swingarm?

[Felix]

Yes, I was being vague. I meant the pegs on the swingarm!

[NobleHops]

Well my engine and frame numbers are both correct for a 77 bike, and the frame number is 3060, so not super early in the year's production.

Engine number is (corrected) 3097 - is that a normal gap between the two numbers? (37)

I see no trace of a footpeg loop having been removed from the frame either. Who has the skinny on this topic of foot pegs on the Swingarm on the 400F?

[NobleHops]

OK, searching a bit more I find another thread that states that the non-US bikes had the added frame loop for the passenger footpegs, but apparently the US bikes still had them mounted on the swingarm, as is evidenced on my bike. So there you have it.

EDIT: OK, now I am geeking out on this. Hope these links work, but you can repeat the search if interested on the parts fiche.

CMSNL fiche of US 77 frame:

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb400f1977-usa_model7214/partslist/F++21.html#results

No frame loop shown, footpeg on swingarm shown.



CMSNL fiche of Euro F2 (77) frame (frame group 1q, 2q)

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb400f2-european-direct-sales_model14648/partslist/F01-8.html#results

Frame loop shown with passenger footpeg.

[Stev-o]

Yes, very common that the frame and engine numbers are not an exact match, actually very rare if they do match.  Normal is within a couple hundred. 

[neevo]

Let me know if you can't read it and I can try and get a better pic.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9710C6FD-5249-48A6-BB3A-5C206210A7ED-1016-0000007200C3BA5C_zpsccf3df1f.jpg

[NobleHops]

Let me know if you can't read it and I can try and get a better pic.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/edneeves/9710C6FD-5249-48A6-BB3A-5C206210A7ED-1016-0000007200C3BA5C_zpsccf3df1f.jpg

Neevo, that's awesome, I can read it fine. Ill doctor it a tad and print it 11x17 and Bob's my uncle. Thanks a bunch.

N.

[neevo]

Happy to help

[NobleHops]

Alright, more disassembly today, and discovered a few, shall we say, "Easter Eggs" on my bike.

I started out the day thinking I was going to fire it up and so first tried connecting up the solenoid and battery, only because I had it 3/4 connected already, but no joy, it was dead at the key, and so reverted to plan A, to connect up the points and put juice to the black/white wires at the coils and kick it over. Installed new plugs and the coils, got some jumpers organized and was fussing with my IV gas bottle when a little voice in my head said, "check the oil". Sure enough, PO hadn't filled it with oil, so I dug some out and got to it....

...and it started flowing out of the shifter shaft seal.



...which is kind-of a pain in the balls. I tried to seat it, dug up a suitable piece of tube to use as a driver, tapped on it with that, but no joy. Drained and saved the oil and dug up some threads on removal of the seal, drove a screw into it but it pulled out. Resorted to hacking at it with needle nose pliers and then was able to get behind it and pop it out.



More fun, the bracket holding the ends of the throttle cables is cocked to one side and the throttle is binding - the spring looks to be installed wrong. Too bad because I popped a float bowl and they are squeaky clean but the butterflies look way off to my eye for sync, and so I'm sending them to Harisuluv for some attention cause I'm not confident they are assembled correctly.



Last bit of fun news was the centerstand - bent and creased.



So I will be in the market for a new centerstand if I can't straighten this one. With it resolved that I was not going to hear the engine run, it was time to skin it and start preparing to paint it. Removed the battery and wiring harness:



Took some documentary shots of how the motor mounts sit, searched fruitlessly for threads on how to make the removal of the engine easier, but did detect that it was going to have to come out the right side, and that it was best done by laying the bike on it's side, and so with a minimum of clue I set to doing that.  Pulled out all the upper engine mounts, (mistake) and made a bed for it, pulled it off the lift:



more...

[NobleHops]

What happened next can best be described as a '#$%* show'.



I laid the bike on its side, no problem, but neglected to remove a bracket at the right rear that connects to the battery box, and also neglected to loosen the front motor mounts. This was just a medium pain in the ass. However I also neglected to remove the front sprocket and that proved to be a bigger problem, because when I freed the other mounts and the engine was loose, the left side engine mounting post got hooked and wedged behind the sprocket. Naturally I was doing this solo so I had to lift the engine to unbind it with one arm and move the bike with the other to make enough room to get the sprocket off the countershaft.

Around this time it became abundantly clear that this thing was not coming out of the frame, no way no how with the oil sump in place, and so I removed the oil sump and the pickup and screen, mildly fouled my blanket with residual oil, and then wrestled the engine out of the frame, still a tight squeeze.



I will be researching how to do this i reverse without making a mess out if it before I put it back together, never fear.

Got the engine onto a dolly I kludged together during the CBX project...



...put the bike back on the lift positioned for the last batch of disassembly...



and did a final bit of fiddling to the adapters I made to hoist the engine up on a stand for cleaning and painting, and mounted them onto the engine.

[NobleHops]

Finished up by sorting and organizing parts, making a list of stuff and parts to get, packing up the carbs to ship.





Mounted another pair of eye bolts to the lift to secure the frame better while I have it on the jack and stands with the wheels off, finished laundering the oily blanket, tidied up and called it a night.

[MoMo]

There is a trick to lifting the motor out that is hard to explain but at 66 years old I can still do it solo. The oil pan does not have to come off btw. Top is tilted out while the motor is dropped down a bit...Larry

[NobleHops]

Hmm. Looking at it post goat-#$%* it seems like I ought to have removed the breather atop the valve cover for certain. Is that part of the drill?

[MoMo]

Hmm. Looking at it post goat-#$%* it seems like I ought to have removed the breather atop the valve cover for certain. Is that part of the drill?

It can stay on but it does make it easier with it off...Larry

[NobleHops]

Alright, update time.

Got pretty busy with work and some related travel but did manage to get another list of stuff ordered and shipped my carbs of to Harisiluv to have him go through them. They were in fact pretty clean and I pulled a float bowl and all looked well, but the sync was a mile off even by eye, and I do not believe the throttle shaft was assembled correctly - the hanger for the ends of the throttle cables was skewed and offset and they were binding when connected, but not when they were not. James will make them just right and I won't worry, and I will get to pick them up in person when I am in Tucson for Thanksgiving, and that's cool too.



Got my cheapo HF engine stand assembled, scratched my head at a couple of odd things about it, but in fact it is quite sturdy and well designed for the most part. Every bearing was dry and they used a cotter pin on the handle that I drilled and swapped for a hitch pin, but for the most part this is a damned good value. Did have to go to Home Depot and rummage through the plumbing parts for nipples to use as spacers and a few long bolts to use to connect up the engine to my mounting brackets.



Picked up the engine/mount and contemplated how much I enjoyed my healthy back, and how hard it was going to be to gently thread it into the stand...



...put it back down and engaged my brain instead. Tilted the stand down to the floor, tipped the engine over into it, locked it in place...



...and then did an easy squat of the package to right it onto its casters.



More...

[NobleHops]

Yeah, this is a good thing.





Spent a half an hour jamming rubber stoppers into the intakes, exhaust, and every other opening. Taped up the wires, and rolled it outside to get started prepping it for paint.

Diluted some Simple Green and used nylon brushes to clean and degrease everywhere I could reach. Rinsed it off, blasted it dry with compressed air.



Pulled out the soda blaster setup, discovered a punctured air hose, fixed it, and set to blasting the engine clean.





Yet more...

[NobleHops]

It looks good and ugly now, which means I'm doing it right.







Had pulled off the starter, ordered a new set of brushes for it, now thinking I need an oring too. Intend to figure out how to service this before I reinstall it.





And that's it for tonight.

N.

[goldarrow]

Just cut up that old oring and install new one.  Harbor freight assorted sizes orings in a box might have one that fits.

[NobleHops]

Just cut up that old oring and install new one.  Harbor freight assorted sizes orings in a box might have one that fits.

Thanks Gold, will do - any insight as to what to do to service that starter? I haven't searched the threads yet.

[754]

 You keep saying that you think carbs are out of sync, then show the choke plates, are you looking at the right end ?

[NobleHops]

You keep saying that you think carbs are out of sync, then show the choke plates, are you looking at the right end ?

Nope, most definitely I was not looking at the right end. D'oh!

[MotorFist]

Hi NobleHops.
Congrats on the new bike for MTW! I did a 400f last winter for my MTW as well. Anyway, here is a super rad video with excellent special effects I found and used when I removed the engine on my project.

It's not highly detailed but it was enough to get me on my way that and some help from the forum!

And just in case you care (and even if you don't, I suppose) http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=120927

Best of luck!
Josh

[NobleHops]

Very cool Josh, thanks for linking that. Looks a lot easier with the breather off and hanging from the top engine bolt for sure.

Will definitely read your entire thread. Thanks a ton for posting.

N.