Topic: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife

[bjbuchanan]

It is most likely not something bad internally. Like others said, attach the chain if you can and throw it up on centerstand. Rock the wheel back and forth to get it to change up. If you can catch first neutral and second you are usually alright. Higher gears can be harded to get in to "on the bench"

[Ridem32]

Hey Nils let us know about your Trans! If you don't have the chain put a socket on the front bolt sprocket and rock the motor while moving the sprocket nut I bet it will shift!
Michael

[NobleHops]

I will be back at it tomorrow, with the chain installed and a hopeful mind. Thanks for talking me down from the ledge guys.

N.

[Ridem32]

Hey Nils I'm not as good with this forum as I am with the cbx one! A friend of mine died a few weeks ago I just found out and went to his sons house today! He has 2 sets of oem nos pipes I will have to go back and check the part #,s still in boxes! I know they are 71 to 73 nos orange tank in box side covers in box did not open those yet not sure of color or year! One red 750 69 or 71 not sure but air box is red and headlight brackets red could be a sandcast another blue 750 I think 73 model both bikes mint! A BMW  not sure year! I will try to go back tomorrow and get more info and pics and send to you Nils and you will have to help me start a post. I did not see a vin tag on the neck of the red bike did honda just stamp vin # in 69 or 70?
Michael

[NobleHops]

Hey Nils I'm not as good with this forum as I am with the cbx one! A friend of mine died a few weeks ago I just found out and went to his sons house today! He has 2 sets of oem nos pipes I will have to go back and check the part #,s still in boxes! I know they are 71 to 73 nos orange tank in box side covers in box did not open those yet not sure of color or year! One red 750 69 or 71 not sure but air box is red and headlight brackets red could be a sandcast another blue 750 I think 73 model both bikes mint! A BMW  not sure year! I will try to go back tomorrow and get more info and pics and send to you Nils and you will have to help me start a post. I did not see a vin tag on the neck of the red bike did honda just stamp vin # in 69 or 70?
Michael

Michael, I'm gonna bet your inbox on this site just blew up :-). I'd be happy to help you and your late friend's family get his parts IDed and on the market, there's no doubt they'll find happy homes with the crew here. Sorry for your loss, that is always a huge bummer. PM me anytime.

Best,

Nils

[Ridem32]

Thanks Nils I will PM you on the other site. I'm not very good on this site at all. My friend would of been 56 if he would of made it 2 more weeks! He also has wizard not sure if that is spell right kinda looks like a fancy bicycle! But looks new several mint cousmans check spelling again! Another 72 750 motor still in frame roller motor not locked I did bump it over a inch or 2 but it's outside! You can email me from the other site I think I have my email on there!
Michael

[NobleHops]

OK, more progress, although it's going slowly at the moment. Thrashed around with the rear brake, installing the torque arm and brake rod, getting those all in the proper alignment, greasing up the plated brake spindle and All That Jazz. Rear brake is working fine but needs adjustment still.





Installed the clutch cable and then upacked my eBay non O-ring chain. Was preparing for a session with the chain riveter to get it to length and rivet the master when I discovered it was the right length and uses a clip master link. So the chain was on and adjusted in 5 minutes, not 30. Rocked the wheel back and forth with the clutch in and out, rotated it several revolutions, working the shifter when suddenly I felt it shift! And again and again and again. Pretty sure the trans was in 5th gear. Got it into neutral, a huge relief. Still feels odd, but it appears my panic was premature. We will see when I get it on the road and can get it limbered up.



Did a half-dozen other little things, preparing to get back to the installation of the ignition and finish the wiring, and then it's on to the carbs, and finish up the body work stuff Feel like this could be running pretty soon!

[MoMo]

good thing for a free trans ...Larry

[Ridem32]

Bike looks great. I know the wifey will lov it. Glad to hear the Trans shifted ok. Great pics  keep posting them
Michael

[thirsty 1]

Excellent news there Nils! I bet you had large sigh of relief !!!

[NobleHops]

Thank you kindly gents. It still feels like stirring a bucket of bolts, but perhaps with some running and some oil it will get back in it's groove.

[Nick0]

Cool restoration you have going, bike is looking better and better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NobleHops]

Had a bit of a revelation last night when I discovered this thread:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=118491.0

Which was posted last year by the DPO of my bike as he tried to reassemble it. Was not aware that he was a member here. We had a nice long conversation this morning about the state of my 'rebuilt' engine, and his prior amnesia about any issues with the transmission and shifter. If you dip into that thread, he apparently had trouble assembling the shifter, evidently just bolted it all up, and sold it to me, "rebuilt". There is more to tell, but I am going to hold off for the moment to give him the benefit of the doubt. But not forever.

So I am not going to take it on faith that this is going to heal itself, given the magic he also worked on the carbs, fork, front brake and master cylinder, brake lines, and swingarm, all also "rebuilt" or serviced by him, by his account. I have a spare trans and shifter mechanism in hand, and this weekend I will remove the clutch and see what I find.  I spent some time with the spare parts and the manual tonight and I have a pretty good grip now on what all the parts are doing and how they are supposed to be assembled.



If the trouble is limited to the assembly of the shifter and I can fix it then I'll be back on track pretty quickly - if not then that indicates a problem with the assembly of the transmission. If that's the case then of course the engine is going to come out and that will be no fun for everyone involved, that is for certain.

So stay tuned. More in a couple days.

[MoMo]

Does not sound very promising now Nils

[DustyRags]

Ooooooh, man!

[thirsty 1]

So Nils does it shift through the gears while spinning the rear tire?  My thinking is that the drum and forks would be ok. I'd have to agree with pulling the clutch basket. You could then spin the input and output shafts while turning the drum with your hand. Mine shifted smoothly with minimal force.

[NobleHops]

So Nils does it shift through the gears while spinning the rear tire?  My thinking is that the drum and forks would be ok. I'd have to agree with pulling the clutch basket. You could then spin the input and output shafts while turning the drum with your hand. Mine shifted smoothly with minimal force.

No Matt, it definitely does not. I'm dying to get in there but I have guests coming tonight, so it will have to wait a day. Looking at the eBay shifter assembly on the bench I can see a few ways it could be assembled wrong, and I am hopeful that's it. But I found yet another thread where the DPO was still thrashing with it a month after his first post about struggling with it, so it seems he tried several times over the span of that month. Tried enough times in fact to have trashed that shifter shaft seal that dumped oil on my lift way back when in my project, right? He was so surprised about that seal being bad too. Yup.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=120198.msg1360799#msg1360799

I pieced-together my eBay gears and forks set on the bench last night, and then played around with the shift drum. Help me with my understanding of that component please - it almost seemed that with the gears and forks installed correctly, there could only be one way that the shift drum could install. Or in other words, maybe even the DPO couldn't #$%* it up. True?

If NOT true, then I think it's possible that the shift drum is in the wrong position, or possibly one or more of the shift forks are in there wrong. The left and right forks look pretty similar, and kind-of fit. He told me on the phone yesterday morning that he had Charlie's (a former Honda shop in SF) install the trans, twice, so it seems like there was some thrashing with that.

Well, we will have our answer soon enough, but I totally appreciate the thoughts about what to look for as I go to verify function. I will photo it clearly and carefully as I go.

[DustyRags]

Charlie's, as far as I've experienced, is pretty friggin' awesome. He's down in LA now, and that's a real loss to SF.

[NobleHops]

Charlie's, as far as I've experienced, is pretty friggin' awesome. He's down in LA now, and that's a real loss to SF.

Ya, was reading about them after Googling and trying to figure out who the "Charlie" was he kept referring to. Definitely too bad, seems they had a big following too.

[DustyRags]

He still does mail order stuff. He was my go-to guy for things like valves ("Hang on, let me grab you one... OK, that's a match, lemme clean it up for you..."), badges ("Nope, that's not a 550 badge, that's a 400... hang on... OK, found one, and it's even go the clips on it. Eight bucks."), and just plain answering questions. The man is a legend with good reason.

[thirsty 1]

I'm thinking (hoping) you'll find your problem at this particular spot.

"I am reassembling the engine on my CB400F and everything has been going smoothly until I hit the shifter assembly behind the clutch basket. My Climer book is not much help here. Does any one have any better photos or a better description of how to get these springs tensioned and put the assembly together?"

It's possible he jammed something up and said f it, and now your experiencing his problem. Fingers Crossed.

[NobleHops]

I'm thinking (hoping) you'll find your problem at this particular spot.

"I am reassembling the engine on my CB400F and everything has been going smoothly until I hit the shifter assembly behind the clutch basket. My Climer book is not much help here. Does any one have any better photos or a better description of how to get these springs tensioned and put the assembly together?"

It's possible he jammed something up and said f it, and now your experiencing his problem. Fingers Crossed.

Yeah, I read that and had the same thought. Thanks for the clues on how to test the trans and shifter drum without getting into the cases. Will skin it, try that first, then focus on the shifter assembly.

[camelman]

Strange.  I know that bike personally and looked at that shifter about ten months ago.  The PO asked me to take a look at it for him, and I got it working fine.  I only fiddled with the components underneath the shifter basket briefly, and it felt like it was shifting fine...I even shifted it through a few gears by turning the crank.  I did not look at it very closely though, so I am not sure if there is anything else wrong with it, and it was never started in my presence to properly run it through the gears.  I have seen those transmissions get sticky from sitting before, and they won't shift well at all without oil in the crankcase.  Good luck with it and I hope it isn't anything serious!

Nice job on the build too.  You definitely take your restorations to a different level than most! 

Regards,
Camelman

[NobleHops]

Strange.  I know that bike personally and looked at that shifter about ten months ago.  The PO asked me to take a look at it for him, and I got it working fine.  I only fiddled with the components underneath the shifter basket briefly, and it felt like it was shifting fine...I even shifted it through a few gears by turning the crank.  I did not look at it very closely though, so I am not sure if there is anything else wrong with it, and it was never started in my presence to properly run it through the gears.  I have seen those transmissions get sticky from sitting before, and they won't shift well at all without oil in the crankcase.  Good luck with it and I hope it isn't anything serious!

Nice job on the build too.  You definitely take your restorations to a different level than most! 

Regards,
Camelman

10 months ago...so June or thereabouts. So Eric bought the bike in February of last year, attempted to reassemble it, brought to Charlie's twice to have them install the lower end by how own account, then posted here looking for help with the shifter in March and then again 30 days later in April, then it sat for a while, they he enlisted you for help with the shifter in June or so, then it sat for a while, then he sold it to me in September with a "rebuilt engine". With no oil in it.

Thanks man, that's helpful to me to help piece together the timeline of events during his ownership.

N.

[camelman]

I'm not familiar with everything that went on with it before or internally, but roughly ten months ago is when I saw it.  A different friend had an issue with a full engine rebuild not shifting on a CB550 a little before that.  It was right before some friends (including the CB550) went on a 2000 mile moto ride...so we were short on time.  In fact, we were late because of his extended rebuild.  Anyway, there is an index system behind the drum that is held together by a 10mm nut or bolt.  If that nut/bolt is loosened, then the indexer won't function because one or more of the index pins will come out of place (I'm using my own terminology here, but it will make sense if you look at the components).  If I recall correctly, the 400f is similar in design, so I'd recommend checking that indexer system out before tearing into the internals.  The effect was that we could upshift the CB550, but couldn't downshift.

I mentioned that we were short on time because I did not want to drain the oil, but found I could lean the bike over to pool the oil on the left side of the engine while removing the right side clutch cover.  It was a handy trick to save some time.

Can you post some detailed pics of the shifter assembly?

Regards,
Camelman