Author Topic: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife  (Read 102916 times)

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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #300 on: April 20, 2014, 01:47:38 PM »
That was a busy Easter Sunday.  Nice work.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #301 on: April 20, 2014, 02:16:59 PM »

That's some fancy stuff you have there. NICE JOB!

Thank you Thirsty-san!
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #302 on: April 20, 2014, 02:36:31 PM »
OK lads, help me out with a couple of electrical questions  and glitches I have to sort out please.

My front turnsignals are not lighting up except feebly, and nothing is flashing, two flasher modules including a NOS one having been tried. Battery is fully charged.

I am definitely having grounding issues up front, which I believe I understand like so: I see that the wiring harness spits off two grounds up under the headlight, to connect to the two nuts that the side reflectors screw into. Knowing that the turnsignals are ungrounded except through the base of the turnsignals themselves. It stands to reason then that if the headlight bracket through which the turnsignals connect through to ground are newly powdercoated, then they will not ground. And that seems like a simple fix, I'll pull the turnsignals off, go after the bracket at that spot carefully with the Dremel to get it down to bare metal, and that should connect them to the bracket electrically. At the other end I'll do the same - remove the reflectors, carefully Dremel them to clean metal, replace the washers etc and see if that fixes it. Do I understand this correctly before I do?

These are aftermarket K&S turnsignals by the way, 2-wire units up front and single wire units in the rear.

The other is much simpler perhaps, there are two wires from the left-side switchpod just under the steering head- I cannot find them on the wiring diagram nor do I appear to have a mate for them in the big bundle - one is brown with a red stripe, with a yellow pipe and the other is a brown with white stripe, which seems to power the little dash bezel lights.



This is driving me nuts. are these unused? FYI these are NOS switches, and I do not know if they are Honda or repro.

TIA for your thoughts.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #303 on: April 20, 2014, 02:43:32 PM »
ahhhh - does the brown white go to the little light on the top of the headlight bucket that I do not have?
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline DustyRags

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #304 on: April 20, 2014, 03:57:46 PM »
Woah, mega-update! Lookin' great!
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline thirsty 1

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #305 on: April 20, 2014, 04:30:02 PM »
I cant remember which ones I left off of mine. I want to say the wires with strips are running lights and the solid ones were the signals? Or its the other way around. ? Here's this but I'm not sure it will help?

http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/wiring350F.html
73' CL125, 75' CB400F, 16' KTM 1190R, 05' KTM 525EXC

75' CB400F  -  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127295.0

My 79 CB750F for fun   ----   http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=19923.0

Offline NobleHops

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Fire in the hole!
« Reply #306 on: April 20, 2014, 09:37:51 PM »
Alright, I was able to track down several wiring gremlins, so far so good!

I whipped out the Dremel and scuffed the inside of the headlight ears a tad and that did indeed fix the ground issue, I THINK*. Also discovered that I had the rear taillight wired wrong, it's a three-wire setup replacing a two, and I screwed up the ground of that. Took it apart and put the meter on it and quickly figured out I had the wrong wire to ground, and was also therefor putting current to ground, again. D'oh! That's why I'm a little unsure about the front turn signal ground question.

Was scratching my ass wondering why the starter would not fire, did all manner of testing and bypassing to see if I could isolate the trouble.  Crossed the solenoid terminals and the rebuilt starter cranked like mad. Put power directly to the solenoid trigger circuit and it happily clicked. Having tested everything and refreshed all the connections I figured it had to be the clutch safety switch but that seemed fine when I tested it too - pulled its leads and tested it with the meter and it was perfect. 

Stared at that for a bit and suddenly realized that I had clutch safety switch wrong - it's a replacement and its colors do not match what it plugs into, and I stupidly connected its black wire to a black wire in the headlight bundle, once again putting current to ground. Studying the wiring diagram the lightbulb finally went off, black is not ground in Hondaspeak, green is of course, and so as soon as I had that wired correctly POOF, the starter cranked like mad as soon as I pulled in the clutch.

Went in the house for a minute and mentioned this to my wife, and said, "At this point I'm pretty sure it will fire right up" and she said, "Well then, why don't you fire it up". So 10 minutes later I had the gas line on and the remote bottle gassed up and connected and gave it a few cranks to see if I could get the float bowls filled up. It coughed nearly immediately and so I stopped, ran into the house and got Felicia to come out to the garage and see if we could catch the first fire.

Fire in the Hole

W00t!

That was a totally legit first firing. I completely forgot to put a little oil down the bores but it had cranked for a total of 20 seconds or so prior so hopefully it got a little oil through everything. Yeah I'm psyched.

It sounded a little noisy, not quite sure if it was just due to it being a little dry and sticky in there, or might have been an exhaust leak, hard to say. I shut it down after a minute and looked for oil and gas leaks, didn't find anything spewing. Opened up one of the tappet covers and saw it a little oily there, and so figured that the oil pump had primed itself OK. Fired it up for another minute and it sounded quieter, then shut it down. Tightened up the exhaust nuts a tad, declared tentative victory.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 09:59:41 PM by NobleHops »
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #307 on: April 20, 2014, 09:55:48 PM »
That was a busy Easter Sunday.  Nice work.

Thanks mang!
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline DustyRags

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #308 on: April 20, 2014, 10:05:42 PM »
WAAAHOOOOOOOOOO!!

Check the torque on the exhaust studs in the manual. On the 550's, it's higher than it feels like it should be. Might be the same for the 400's.
1976 CB550K- sold
2005 Kawasaki Vulcan 500- sold
2000 CB750 Nighthawk - sold
1975 XL350 - crashed
2004 Suzuki Vstrom 650 - sold

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #309 on: April 20, 2014, 10:21:08 PM »
WAAAHOOOOOOOOOO!!

Check the torque on the exhaust studs in the manual. On the 550's, it's higher than it feels like it should be. Might be the same for the 400's.

Thanks man, I will. I was snugging them trying to crush those gaskets and thinking, "Man, this is tight". Will go back and torque them properly, and fluff-test them for leaks.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #310 on: April 20, 2014, 10:42:38 PM »
What a great feeling that must have been firing the bike!!
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #311 on: April 20, 2014, 10:44:44 PM »
What a great feeling that must have been firing the bike!!

It was indeed! I was a little concerned with how noisy it was though.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline thirsty 1

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #312 on: April 21, 2014, 06:41:16 PM »
WOOHOO!!! NICE NILS..

Yosemitebear Mountain Double Rainbow 1-8-10


what kind of noises. cam chain or a clutch rattle..tappets?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 09:43:20 PM by thirsty 1 »
73' CL125, 75' CB400F, 16' KTM 1190R, 05' KTM 525EXC

75' CB400F  -  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127295.0

My 79 CB750F for fun   ----   http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=19923.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #313 on: April 21, 2014, 10:30:41 PM »
HAHA, nicely played Matt! Thanks!

OK, so I spent some quality time with my multimeter tonight and have sorted out some of the mysteries of the 400F wiring harness. Before I detail what I learned in the interest of helping the next guy that does this let me stick in a couple of facts/disclaimers so you don't chase your tail because you were using different components then me. Corrections and clarifications are MOST WELCOME.

- I am using a NOS wiring harness (believed to be Honda) of unknown vintage. In a couple of places the colors were strange and did not match the wiring diagram.

- I am using K&S replacement blinkers - 2-wire units up front and single wire units out back.

- I am using some POS knock-off taillight sourced from 4into1, a three wire unit replacing the stock 2 wire unit with the ground on the base.

- My headlight bracket is a repro unit from David Silver Spares - also painted.

- My taillight brackets were powdercoated before this installation.

- With that all said, nearly every one of these things came into play such that it took me 3+ hours to get it all sorted out.

FRONT TURNSIGNALS

K&S or Honda, these ground electrically through their bases, then through the arm they are bolted to from the headlight bracket, and then through the headlight shell where the nuts with the grounding lugs are on the inside. Those nuts with the grounding lugs must be connected to the green leads from the main wiring harness within the shell. You must have bare clean metal at each contact point, on the arms, and through the headlight shell via the metal of the ears on the bracket and the metal collars that pass through the headlight hell to the big nuts with the lugs within. If you do not have good clean contact you will have weird intermittent grounding problems that are a PITA to diagnose.

If you're using the stock turnsignals then just connect the like colors to each other.

If you're using K&S turnsignals:

  - Connect the right turnsignal red lead to the solid light blue wire, and the black lead to the light blue wire with the white stripe (the black lead is your running light element).

  - Connect the left turnsignal red lead to the solid orange wire, and the black lead to the orange wire with the white stripe (again the black is the running light element).





REAR TURNSIGNALS

K&S or Honda, these ground electrically through their bases, then through the arm they are bolted to from the rear of the frame, via the wiring terminals on the turnsignal bases, Make sure those are clean and making good contact and maybe treat them to a little dielectric grease before you install the green leads from the rear segment of the wiring harness. As on the front turnsignals, be certain you have bare metal at the notch where the bolt makes contact with the mounting bracket, and around the end of the arm where it sits within the turnsignal for good measure. As on the fronts, if you do not you will have weird intermittent grounding problems that are a PITA to diagnose.

If you're using the stock turnsignals then just connect the like colors to each other.

If you're using K&S turnsignals:

  - Connect the right turnsignal red lead to the solid light blue wire.

  - Connect the left turnsignal red lead to the solid orange wire.



IN THE HEADLIGHT SHELL

There should be a short jumper wire, male>male bullet connectors on it, one end is black and the other is brown with a blue pipe. Connect the black end to the black multi-terminal from the main wiring harness and connect the other to the solid brown wire also in the headlight.

If you are using an OEM clutch safety switch the colors will match up, but if you are not, the black wire goes to the green multi connector (ground) and the other lead, (mine was yellow/green) goes to the green/red lead from the main wiring harness.






IN THE BIG WIRING BUNDLE BEHIND THE STEERING HEAD

Again I had variables in the form of replacement or aftermarket switches, can't be sure which, so some of the wires may be different in your case. If you are using all stock components these may all match up color for color, but this is the combination that worked for me with the unholy union of components I have:

To/From left switch:

Brown female bullet connector with a blue mark (main harnesss): This is the other end of the brown wire that you jumped power to in the headlight shell. Connect this to the brown with white stripe wire from the left switch. Black with yellow stripe from the harness goes to the brown with red stripe (yellow pipe). The brown wire with the blue stripe from the left switch is unused. All other wires should match up, those are the turnsignal wires and the hi/lo for the headlight. 

From the right switch: Black white is your switched ignition leg that powers the coils and points/ignition, that should match up and so should the black with red stripe (starter solenoid trigger wire). The other two black wires connect to the black multi-connector.






REAR TAILLIGHT

Again this is a POS 3-wire replacement unit, not stock Honda or even aftermarket 2-wire.

The Black/white lead is ground, connect this to the green wire from the wiring harness.

The black lead connects to the brown on the wiring harness - this is your taillight power.

The red lead is your brighter brake light filament. Connect this to the green wire with the yellow stripe from the wiring harness.






AT TURNSIGNAL FLASHER UNDER LEFT SIDE COVER

Green ground lead is unused.



OK, I hope that's helpful to someone down the road.  If it is, maybe reply to this thread with a single "Boo-rah" just for fun.




Keywords: 400F turnsignal wiring, 400F aftermarket turnsignal, 400F wiring harness, 400F jumper wire, 400F three-wire rear taillight wiring, 400F turnsignal ground, 400F weird turnsignal ground faults, 400F unused wires
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #314 on: April 21, 2014, 10:42:07 PM »
LAST ELECTRICAL MYSTERY TO SOLVE

But it's an interesting one. My neutral light is acting wonky. The lamp itself works, but only when the clutch lever is pulled in. Thinking I had fried the diode under the left side cover shunting all that fun current to ground, I dug out the one from my old wiring harness and tried it, and with that one installed I get nothing, no light in gear, out, with the clutch pulled in, nada.

What's the skinny here? And is this little diode replaceable? The sole marking I find on it is  "S3H-02" and 4Y.

EDIT: Yes, I see it is, for $28!!Is this likely to be the culprit given my symptoms?


« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 10:55:05 PM by NobleHops »
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #315 on: April 21, 2014, 11:24:04 PM »
OK I am having a ball answering my own posts tonight so why stop now?

Google coughed up this link, and I have a multimeter so I tested the two diodes I had.

http://www.ohmcheck.com/content.php?142-How-to-test-a-rectifier-diode-and-how-rectifier-diodes-work

The one that was installed in the bike was definitely bad, it passed current in either direction. The one from the other wiring harness tests good, but nothing happens at all with it installed. This make me think I simply have a faulty neutral switch.

So I switched the bike on, and jumpered the post of the neutral switch to ground. Voila! Neutral light...lights up. So the wire and the circuit and the diode are all good. Just for fun I checked the continuity of the subhanress on that wire, all good.

So I am pretty sure this simply points to a bad neutral switch. True?
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline Statenheimer

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #316 on: April 22, 2014, 08:18:54 AM »
Sounds that way to me.   :)
'75 550F - Resto/mod - Riding - But never really finished...
'76 550K - Cafe build - On hold
'78 550K - Parts - Good engine for another day
'73 500 - Parts - Engine seized
'90 CB-1 - No longer seized! but still title-less

Offline NobleHops

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More on the neutral switch, actually
« Reply #317 on: April 23, 2014, 09:33:03 PM »
OK so tonight I thought I'd skin the neutral switch and see what gives with it. I do not think my diagnosis last night was correct at this point. I think something else is wrong, and I could use some advice.

I pulled the sprocket cover and removed the wire, removed the Philips screw and bracket and wiggled the switch out, easy peasy, put the meter on it and when I depress the little doobus at the business end of it, sure enough there is continuity through the switch. Switch is fine. So why wasn't it working? Peering through the hole in the case at the back of the shifter drum, I expected to see some little nubbin that this would contact to ground it and trigger the neutral light. Not so. I shifted the trans from 1st to 3rd and watched the end of the drum swivel, but found no nubbin on the back of the drum, and no discernible spot where there would be one either.




Here's my spare shifter drum to the right, and the neutral switch to the left.



So my questions are like so:

Am I understanding correctly how this is supposed to work?

How is that little contact/nubbin on the shift drum installed? Sure looks to me like it's pounded in like a drive rivet or something, interference fit. Wouldn't there be a hole for the contact if it had fallen out?

Looking at the shifter drum, there is really only one way for it to go together, the parts are designed so you can't really get it out of phase.

The only other possibility I can think of is that' it's the wrong f'ing shifter drum in there.  And nothing would surprise me at this point, even that.

Opinions and advice are most welcome. The oil is draining out of it now as I muster the mojo to pull all that stuff off that I just put on, pull the engine out and take the bottom end of the engine apart and see what the hell is going on with this.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 09:46:11 PM by NobleHops »
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline neevo

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Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #318 on: April 24, 2014, 02:20:03 AM »
If that's your spare and the other one doesn't have it I think your assumption it's not the correct drum could be right.

Want me to check the drum in my motor parts box?

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #319 on: April 24, 2014, 07:12:24 AM »
If that's your spare and the other one doesn't have it I think your assumption it's not the correct drum could be right.

Want me to check the drum in my motor parts box?

Yes please Neevo.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline neevo

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #320 on: April 24, 2014, 10:28:09 PM »
Ok NobleHops, turns out my drum has the button on it for the neutral switch:





You need any other pictures?

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #321 on: April 24, 2014, 10:36:25 PM »
No man, but thank you kindly Neevo, I think I'm good.

I'm gonna take the engine apart but I have to put it down for a couple weeks and put another bike on the lift for an upcoming tour, so this thread is gonna go mostly dark for a month.

I will return as soon as I can get back to it.

Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #322 on: April 25, 2014, 02:12:25 PM »
NEVERMIND ALL THAT FUSSING I DID. I am too stupid to work on motorcycles sometimes.

The transmission was in 4th. What I thought was neutral was the false neutral it is all too easy to get between 4th and 5th. Everything is fine with my transmission and presumably my neutral light too.

N., no pride at the moment.


Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline neevo

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #323 on: April 25, 2014, 02:31:35 PM »
Bwahahahahaa.

Slightly embarrassing but the best outcome as it's now fixed without having to take it apart again :)

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Re: Noblehops makes a 400F pretty for his wife
« Reply #324 on: April 25, 2014, 03:32:07 PM »
That's damn awesome dude. +1 on Bwahhahahahahaha that's some s I'd do. Lol!
73' CL125, 75' CB400F, 16' KTM 1190R, 05' KTM 525EXC

75' CB400F  -  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127295.0

My 79 CB750F for fun   ----   http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=19923.0