Topic: Bike Title Thread

[csendker]

If you go the 'homebuilt' route, I think you have to meet the current safety standards and EPA emmissions requirements.  Having a 30 year old bike w/title, you only have to meet the standards in effect when it was built, not today's standards.  This isn't too much of an issue with small trailers (brakes maybe being the execption), but if you slap a motor on it, the motor will need to conform as the age of the bike follows the frame, not motor.

If the frame has a VIN but no title, the title companies may be an attractive route.  But no VIN will be a problem, as they need a VIN to work their magic.  The 'salvage' & 'destruction' titles are a pain, as the DMV will require a full inspection before proceeding with their nightmarish title process, but I think again, they follow the standards in effect when it was originally built.

You could find a parts bike with a clean VIN (title or not) and use it's number for your VIN-less frame.  At least you would be sure you're not duplicating a VIN (bad...) and would be held to 30 year old standards (good...).

[ElCheapo]

I went through the "salvage title" agony with my car. What a pain.  There was
a Honda CBR I was looking at on ebay that carried a "distruction title" having been
purchased from an insurance company as a theft recovery.  It looked to only have
at most a thousand bucks damage, mostly scratches.  but I'll bet it would be a
real pain to get a "salvage title" issued for it......in Florida. I still question why it had
a "destruction" title. 

I am led to believe that if the damage is more then 80 percent of the wholesale
value, a distruction title is issued and the vehicle can only be used for parts. In the
case of my car, the damage was 70 percent so I squeaked by.

I was tempted to bid, but the thought of having to face the people at the title
office stopped me.

Jim

This one I know, This is also known as a scrap title. This means outside of parts, the bike is worthless unless you are willing to do frame off transfer or other thing if you know what I mean. 

In Wisconsin they will issue a title with many laps of fight, your life's story, the bikes history, and possibly having to bond the damn bike.

[DiscoEd]

OK...so how do they know the frame isn't a fabricated frame?  They must have a process for assigning a new VIN, right?

I was wondering this myself. If you were to build a bike from scratch what would be the process? There has to have been a lot of bikes scratch built and built from pieces that have been titled with no problem.

Regards,
DiscoEd

[csendker]

If you go the 'homebuilt' route, I think you have to meet the current safety standards and EPA emmissions requirements.

Forget using a 30-year old motor.  Think of the carb & choke changes in '77 & '78 just to meet the updated standards of the day.  I doubt you could ever get a SOHC motor to meet today's emmission standards.  Most of the 'homebuilt' (ie choppers) bikes I see on TV or around town seem to have a nice, new (usually V-twin...) motor stuck in them.  Of course, they never show the title process that must go along with the OCC bikes.

[bill440cars]

             



              I don't know this for a fact but, I've heard that if you provide receipts for major items like
        engine, wheels and such. That's what I've heard. It may not be required but, it could make it
        easier. You'd think something like that would be standard all over. Later on, Bill     
     

[techy5025]

In my car case I had to supply the insurance estimates and receipts showing that each item was
replaced.  In a couple of cases they let me slide with a fix instead of a replacement. They also
inspected all labor stuff.....and nitpicked several title issues. In sum, a royal PITA. 

Jim

[bill440cars]

                        In Arkansas, you have to actually have insurance.

[DiscoEd]

Of course, they never show the title process that must go along with the OCC bikes.

The OCC guys can probably afford to hire some pigeon who spends all day at the DMV greasing palms.

[ElCheapo]

Of course, they never show the title process that must go along with the OCC bikes.

The OCC guys can probably afford to hire some pigeon who spends all day at the DMV greasing palms.

They are a licensed vehicle manufacturer. Plus they do use frames that come already to go with the vin and a certificate of manufacture. Not all title things are done by dirty SOBs behind closed doors. I only know this as I am getting ready to go head long down this path with custom bikes..

[mkramer1121]

Heh, grant it I had all the info from the previous owner of my bike (my cousin) but he lives waaaaay up in northern Wisconsin and he told me to do this.  He couldn't find the IL title when I picked the bike up, so he told me forge his signature on the lost title form as well as on the title to transfer it.  Illegal, probably, but it was with his blessing....

[fotoguy79]

Of course, they never show the title process that must go along with the OCC bikes.

The OCC guys can probably afford to hire some pigeon who spends all day at the DMV greasing palms.

What are you guys talking about?  OCC uses brand new engines.

[bill440cars]

                     A little of the subject but, I gotta tell ya, I have a lot more respect and feeling for the guy who has a garage, living room apartment, rented storage space, driveway or whatever to work with and a budget that a little or even some expenses to be spent monthly than I do for the guys like those at OCC. The bikes, built by guys like us on this site, are special and there is more thought along with feeling that go into them. This is the way I look at it. When a guy (on this site) builds a bike, he's put his heart and soul into it (and a lot of the time, thoughts & ideas from others also) and when he's through, his bike has character and is a part of him. Those guys on that show get ideas, go into their shop, gather up some parts, order up some of them (usually more expensive that our bike), fabricate some, have someone else paint it (some of us have to do that though) and they assemble it. If there is a problem, they call someone in. We don't have that luxury. I've said way too much, Sorry. Bill

[GroovieGhoulie]

                     A little of the subject but, I gotta tell ya, I have a lot more respect and feeling for the guy who has a garage, living room apartment, rented storage space, driveway or whatever to work with and a budget that a little or even some expenses to be spent monthly than I do for the guys like those at OCC. The bikes, built by guys like us on this site, are special and there is more thought along with feeling that go into them. This is the way I look at it. When a guy (on this site) builds a bike, he's put his heart and soul into it (and a lot of the time, thoughts & ideas from others also) and when he's through, his bike has character and is a part of him. Those guys on that show get ideas, go into their shop, gather up some parts, order up some of them (usually more expensive that our bike), fabricate some, have someone else paint it (some of us have to do that though) and they assemble it. If there is a problem, they call someone in. We don't have that luxury. I've said way too much, Sorry. Bill

That and all their bikes are cookie-cutter bikes even though they claim to be "custom".  I think a lot of our bikes are "custom" since I have not seen two that look exactly alike, stock ones aside.

[bill440cars]

                       GroovieGhoulie,  That's exactly what I mean. I'm not too good at putting it into words. I mean, how can aperson look at the bikes, like we've seen examples of, that are build by regular type guys and each bike is a piece of work to be admired.  That's it, I think I'm off my soapbox,for now.  Later on, Bill

[csendker]

What are you guys talking about?  OCC uses brand new engines.

Exactly my point.  They don't stick a 30-year old engine, which was built to yesterday's EPA standards (if any...) and then register the final product as new, or homebuilt.  They use a motor that conform's to today's standards.  If you get an old frame or bike with no title, going the 'homebuilt' route will probably require you to bring it up to today's standards, which would be reasonably impossible to do.  Depending on where you live and try to register it, you may get some sort of 'homebuilt-grandfather' thing going with the DMV where you just have to bring it up to the original standards, not today's.  I doubt NYS would let me get away with that though.

[dusterdude]

if im not mistaken,the street rod guys can register their new 32 fords and such as 32 fords.if someone on here has experience messing with street rods and knows more about this please chime in.

[ElCheapo]

Well you guys have a good point on the custom fab bike issues there. To watch guys like OCC, Arlen Ness, or other major industry players you get a spending contest during the build offs. Matt Hotch of Hot Match uses $15,000 rims on his contest bike! His bikes are pretty cool with the whole air suspension low rider thing. I watched a history on OCC thing. It appears that they wanted success, which they now have. But you could say they really did not ask for it. When money flows solid into a business there are going to be changes no matter what. Good, Bad, or indifferent.

After seeing these guys go spend happy I have revised the Velveeta jingle. "Put the money in, take the brains, shove it in and pull'em out" -(sound effect) Cha Ching "Thats what it all about".

I have respect for smaller builders like the late Indian Larry. This guy did some level of fab on just about every part he used. Plus when he needed something, he did not just go over to the "flow-jet" and cut it out. His stuff was done in the old school blacksmith way. Plus the fact that he looked at building (creating) a completely custom bike as a Holy Sacrement makes him kick ass in my book. Just show me one other guy who has used a welded logging chain to make the frame of a bike. The paint schemes on his bikes were just crazy sick. The only reason I think he had other people paint bikes from Gasoline Alley was that he knew early on if he painted something somewhere would suffer for it. You can have crazy visions of what you want you bike to turn out like, know that you can't paint worth a #$%*, and also know that the paint will make or break the look of the bike overall.

[dusterdude]

i agree tom,larry was a bike building god.

[bill440cars]

if I'm not mistaken,the street rod guys can register their new 32 fords and such as 32 fords.if someone on here has experience messing with street rods and knows more about this please chime in.

      Hey duster, I don't know anything about registering cars like 32 fords but, another example is
   "kit cars". Now, you know when someone builds a Cobra (for example), that motor isn't going to
    be up to smog standards. Nowadays, a person can buy and build just about anything including a
    53' Corvette and that's going to met smog regs, rigghhttt! Guys now days are putting all kinds of   
    technology into the old cars and such but, I believe it's just like the turn signal thing on
    motorcycles, if it doesn't have them, it doesn't have to and if it does have them, they better
    work (at least in Arkansas)   It may be all in what state you are from. In Arkansas, you can license
    a vehicle as an antique, if it is 25 yrs old. And you can use any custom accessories and such as
    long as they are similar to what might have been done back then.    Later on, Bill

[dusterdude]

yea,i remember when i was more into cars than i am now,about there being some sort of deal if the car was pre smog and if it is a "kit" car it can be registered as the year that the car would have been.

[bill440cars]

yea,i remember when i was more into cars than i am now,about there being some sort of deal if the car was pre smog and if it is a "kit" car it can be registered as the year that the car would have been.

                  I know what you mean. There was a time when I would like to build a Cobra and drop a
           440-6pk or a 426HEMI in it and mess with the Ford guys. Too much money. I couldn't even 
           afford to build a Cobra as a pedal car! That's another reason I gave up that dream. Now I'm
           just messing with bikes. I've got some "project jobs that don't have titles and I kinda keep my
           eyes open for a frame w/a title that's not too far away because you can find a frame priced
           fairly reasonable until you add in the shipping cost (if the seller will ship it). I'd rather swap
           frames than deal with the DMV because Arkansas regs can be kinda tricky. Later on, Bill

[fotoguy79]

So basically what we've all learned here is that I better check with my state's DMV, because there is no one answer.   

[bill440cars]

             Absolutely, that's the best way. Shame they aren't all the same but, that would be too easy
      and make sense.  Good luck!   Later on, Bill

[csendker]

Heck, with the NYS DMV, you can get different and conflicting answers all in one short visit; no need for multiple trips to screw you up.

[DiscoEd]

Heck, with the NYS DMV, you can get different and conflicting answers all in one short visit; no need for multiple trips to screw you up.

You can also get consistantly wrong answers. After several visits though you can take all of the wrong answers that you've learned eliminate them and you'll only be left with the correct answers (which you made up on your own anyway).

The other approach that I often find useful is to keep trying until you find the newbie working the desk that you can talk into doing anything. If you act act like you know what you're talking about they'll take your word for cause they don't know any better.

One thing that I find troubling is that in this age of electronic information, finding any of this information out about titling and registering old vehicles is like finding a 12th planet! On my state website there is a ton of information but very little of it even comes close to touching on any of this subject.

Concerning emissions, I'm just not buying that as the overwhelming reason for the problems with registering / titling old bikes. Sure improvements have been made, but a properly tuned up SOHC4 probably has emissions on par with many of todays bikes. My brother has a new bike with a hop up chip and I'd bet the emissions from my 550K1 are better than his. If they really want to save the environment they should follow some of the smog spewing trucks I see on the highway. It's amazing the amount of paticulate matter that gets dispersed from a diesel running in the wrong gear for 54 miles! I'd bet that you'll find HD (and others) lobbying against the kind of stuff that people like us and the Indian Larry types love at the state and federal level. Got to sell all those bikes on showroom floors one way or another.

Regards,
DiscoEd