Topic: Define survivor, original, restored. Can of worms?

[Don R]

 Just curious about the degree of originality to which a motorcycle needs to qualify as one of these.

 Restored sounds easy, this would be a bike that has been repainted, rebuilt , rechromed to showroom condition. But to what degree is a less molested bike considered restored?
 If a broken sidecover has been replaced with a same part number Honda sidecover does that remove the possibility of referring to it as original? How about survivor? Are they the same thing or is there a different degree of originality needed?

I just realized my new to me bike is the most original one I've ever owned, except the 500 I bought new, but it has a broken sidecover and the original rear wheel spent some time on the PO's drag bike. (I bought the drag bike to get the rear wheel back) It had taller handlebars on it so I put on a set of correct Honda bars, to me it's not restored, but yet it's packing correct part number honda parts. In one sense it's original, but I think since it's not perfectly original or restored it may be a survivor.

I just don't want to use an incorrect label, maybe there's another one that fits.
 

[TwoTired]

To me, a survivor is an unmolested bike, with little changed on it since new.  Or if has changes, ones that are pretty easy to reverse to original.  It could have rust or faded paint, but not so much that the parts are unserviceable.

For example, if the tank and side covers are replaced, and the bike once again looks and works like a factory model, it survives.  It could even have a fairing or windshield.  So long as it can be returned to original configuration and is operable pretty much from the get go, it's a survivor.

If it needs an a engine out detail rebuild of frame and or engine, it traverses into the realm of restoration or at the very least, resurrection from the dead.

imo

[Bankerdanny]

It's funny I keep typing a response, the proof reading and deciding to change. So defintitely not an easy question. Original can overlap with both survivor and restored, but a restored bike can never be a survivor.

Someone could be selling an 'original' bike that is in awful condition and in need of total restoration to run. But the engine/frame/tins, gauges etc are all the ones that came on the bike from new. So you can honestly say the bike is all original. Now you could restore it to as-new condition and call it restored original condition. Not the original paint, some new parts like mufflers or wheels, but by and large just the parts that came on the bike from Japan restored to original condition.

To me, to be a survivor, the bike needs to run, or be relatively easy to get running and retain the vast majority of its original from the factory parts.  My '77 Goldwing is a good example of this. It's mostly as it came from the factory with the exception of the fairing and bags and king/queen seat. But the paint is original as are the shelter (faux gas tank) and sidecovers, muffler, wheels, gauges, and one of the exhaust manifolds. The frame and engine go together. It ran when I bought it, but poorly. None of the repairs required opening the engine or replacing any major mechanical systems.

My '77 550K was an original survivor combo. When I bought it had been sitting since 1981 or 1982 and still had the tires from the showroom. When I changed them the tubes had 1977 printed on them. The seat, tins, exhaust system, gauges etc all original to the bike. Hell, I didn't even bother to replace the brake shoes/pads, points, and drive chain when I got it back on the road. The only unoriginal cosmetic part on it was the suberbike bar and Randakk's grips. And I kept the original bars in case a future owner wanted them. Getting it running was a case of new battery and plugs, a good carb cleaning, and replacement of fuel lines and the tank petcock. I don't think I even replaced the air filter since it was nice and clean. The tool kit was under the seat and looked like it had never even been opened.

[markb]

My opinion is original is only original once.  With all the parts that came from the factory.  No matter what condition.  You can have nice original or rough original.  I would exclude batteries and light bulbs but not tires.  You could call it original except tires in that case.  I guess that would be a survivor too.  Restored would be if anything is replaced or changed.  Just different stages of restored.  I don't think you can have restored original.  Again, just my opinion. 

[TwoTired]

I don't think regular ordinary consumables like, batteries, fluids, or tires count, when assessing a survivor.  A survivor is still alive and viable, it can't be that if the fluids have turned or the rubber has deteriorated with age, to make it unsafe to operate.

I suppose true "originals" must be in museum type storage and can't be roadworthy or ever used as originally intended?  Original = ornament?

[Xnavylfr]

IMHO, I don't think it's possible to find a 100% original if the bike has actually been ridden and used.  Original to me would mean, just un-crated  , even if you change the drain hoses on the carbs ,it is no longer original. Like original YES
Restored=Back to showroom condition with all HONDA numbered parts



Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[Don R]

The local old bike guys advise me to not repaint or restore. Just re-install original parts, repair,  clean and enjoy it. Their motto, they're only original once. I think there are degrees of originality and almost every bike has a certain percent of non-originality.
 A buddy has a sweet Indian inline 4 with a welded window in the crankcase, I thought it was as cool as hell as is but will admit restored it is really nice too. You can't see the repair at all.
 I'm claiming survivor status on my sandcast, It's got almost 9K miles, I'd love to roll those numbers a little, soon.

[Kevin D]

These original parts didn't quite survive:

[Kevin D]

I'm enjoying this much more, even with resto side covers:

[Kevin D]

The original 300 pipes rusted out in a couple of years. The take off 341s have been on the bike for 35++ years, look and sound good. The 341 pipes have been on the bike 10x longer than the originals.

I have the new gauge faces from lecram, but so far have left them as is. The current condition reminds me how old the bike really is.

So I guess its a mixture, mostly survivor, excepting pipes, paint side covers, etc. But its not for sale so I dont really care if I've lowered the value, and frankly I think its one heckuva lot nicer, even though I'd probably score a lot fewer points at the concours. I enjoy riding it, more so with modern tires, paint, brakelines, headlamp.

[Greggo]

Survivor: A bike that has been ridden regularly throughout its life, and has had (mostly) stock components replaced over time to keep it in operation.

Original: As unmodified as possible, be it in showroom condition or covered in dust in a garage.

Restored: Brought as close as possible back to stock/showroom condition.

RestoMod: Brought back to operating condition from sitting, with modifications to suit the owner/builder's tastes.


It's all semantics really, so there will always be different interpretations. 

[MoMo]

Survivor, to me, means original patina  along with whatever replacement parts to keep the bike roadworthy. Repaints takes it into the restored range and I really like TT's defintion of original= ornament....Larry



Greggos defs are good

[seanbarney41]

These original parts didn't quite survive:

looks like they survived quite nicely...

[seanbarney41]

I have the new gauge faces from lecram, but so far have left them as is. The current condition reminds me how old the bike really is.

I personally hate it, when gauge faces have been restored...that just doesn't look realistic at all....oh and KevinD's bike is one of the best running/riding cb's I have seen

[ekpent]

I have been lucky enough to get some bikes from the old original owners that were luckily unmolested and pretty well taken care of. Once they start changing hands a lot they start losing stock bits quickly, heck some were getting changed as they rolled out brand new.

[dhall57]

Yeah Eric my 70KO and K6 are fairly original. The PO of the KO put later model carbs on it and a 16" harley wheel and changed the bars. The good is that still has the original 300's even though i've had to patch them in a few places and also still has the wrinkled tank and duck tail seat. The PO of the K6 put Mac 4 to 1 on it and 16" harley wheel (damn those harley wheels) and had put a mustang seat on it. But now has a stock seat back on it. But everything else is original. And that's how both bikes will stay

[ekpent]

I will go to my grave cursing the man who invented the King and Queen seat and still mutter bad things about Craig Vetter once in awhile   

[MoMo]

I will go to my grave cursing the man who invented the King and Queen seat and still mutter bad things about Craig Vetter once in awhile   

but  you're keeping the trashmen working with all the Vetters ...Larry

[Stev-o]

The PO of the K6 put Mac 4 to 1 on it and 16" harley wheel (damn those harley wheels)

Hall - have you considered changing the rear rim back to an 18"?
My Z1 also came with a 16" rim, hated it, and bought a new 18" rim, ss spokes and laced it to the original hub. Technically, it's not original, but looks better and I am much happier with it and bet you would be too.

[dhall57]

Sure have Stev-o on both bikes but just haven't done it yet.

[Don R]

I guess I can claim the sandcast as mostly original survivor status. I'm thinking we are basically on the same page term wise.