Topic: Cylinder Nuts Missing Washers? Help

[cakey]

Can't believe it everything was going great until I realised there is no washers underneath the cylinder head nuts. I didn't forget them because none came off the studs. I have everything all gaged up and labelled with photos as it came off the bike.

They are the Ape studs and I have torqued to 20 ft lbs.

Do I have to have the washers?
If I get washers can I replace one stud and re torque at a time instead of undoing the whole head?
I picked up on it when I was referencing Honda mans booked and double checked CSMNL. I am pretty sure they should be ther.

Please suggestions? Bugger just can't win at the moment

[cakey]

So the local nut and bolt shop has some hardened zinc washers.

Honda spec is
 E-04    90485-035-000        Washer, 14mm    ID 8mm   OD 18mm    thickness 2.3mm    Zinc   

The local shops specs are ID 9mm. OD 18.5mm. Thickness 2mm. Hardened zinc

Is this to far out?

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Why not order from Honda and be on the safe side?!

[cakey]

Can only order via Japan. If in stock then they will order from Japan after 23rd December.

I am going to try and find some second hand ones instead of using wrong size.

My main question now is how I am going to put them on.

Do I loosen the 6mm bolts and then undo the lot and re torque or will this stuff my gaskets?

Or do I do one stud at a time to not stuff the gaskets?

I just don't know

[bryanj]

doing one stud at a time on a gasket that has not run is what I would do (and i have been doing the job over 40 years) also those local ones are only 0.3mm or 12 thou thinner so i would use them

[cakey]

By the time I read your post bryanj I had already decided to loosen them off across the board. My reason owning was that if I did decide to loosen them then the sooner the better for the gaskets. Also the engine had not been run so I thought it would be safe. Also I am going up in small increments for the Ape studs so I thought that by the time I adjusted the torque wrench 8 times for 16 nuts it would do my head in and I might not get as even a torque doing it one at a time.

I am worried that the local washers from the shop might not fit in the recessed parts in the head if they are larger outside diameter than original.

[ekpent]

Good idea as you can call it a re-torque which will help the gasket bed in better. Also having washers may change the torque numbers also because of friction differences.

[Bodi]

Hardened zinc? Zinc can be hardened?
What are the OEM washers made of? Zinc is quite soft - could be an advantage in sealing but I believe the Honda washers are steel, much harder than zinc. Would the stud force be enough to crush a zinc washer?
I use zinc washers as sacrificial anodes to reduce corrosion, but I haven't ever considered the stuff good for high tensile fastener washers.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Yeah, zinc might loosen up since it is soft due to expansion/contraction and probably wouldn't hold the torque as well as the Honda ones which are probably?? hardened steel.

[lucky]

A washer is very important.
It acts as a spacer.
It acts as a bearing surface.
It acts as a corrosion prevention device.
It can be a locking device.

[cakey]

I ended up spending an hour at the motorcycle wreckers going through their buckets of washers. I found 16 that had the right dimensions. Re torqued back down and felt totally different this time.