Topic: Are these points done for?

[lucky]

Get urself a points file (talk to the OLD guy at the auto supply store) and they'll clean right up.

I picked up a points file yesterday at my local O'Reilly's.  I was suprised, there were actually three or four of them in the tools aisle.  I started filing down the points immediately.  The fixed 1.4 point actually cleaned up to a shiny surface relatively easily.  The 2.3 points look like they'd clean up easy too, but I spent a good half an hour on the 1.4 rocker arm point with no success.  The picture I included is after all of the filing.  It's hard to tell from the picture, but the pit in the middle is quite a bit deeper than the surrounding metal, so the file would have to take off a lot of material to make everything level.

Like they said above, those points are fine. They look to have maybe 3000 miles or so on them. I suspect the condensors are a different story, though, based on the fact that they are pitting in opposite directions and the "hole" is in the moving arm on the closeup: that indicates low capacitance. Old condensors leak when cold, which makes for weak spark until the engine is hot, and causes the points to pit faster and eventually burn black, which ruins them. Far too many of these bikes have old condensors.

Look to one of our advertisers, PartsNmore.com, for low-cost, adequate condensors. They work fine on stock points and with my Ignition, both. Those points would run fine with my box, but fix the basic problem before adding electronics into the mix, whether it's mine or Dyna's.

Thanks for the reply!  It sounds like my condensers are the culprit, or at least the first place to start.  Is there any way to test condensers with my handy multimeter?  I'll definitely hit Partsnmore and order some.

Bad sparkplug caps (or loose ones) are a common problem on the "F" bikes: they must not measure more than 10,500 ohms (with an ohmmeter) or spark troubles will develop. NGK sells new ones at most bike shops, about $5 each, for these bikes: get the 5000 ohm ("5K") variety for best results. If yours have a dull surface finish and dry, cracked rubber boots on them, they are done, or soon will be.

Also, what color are the sparkplugs? Are they white, or charcoal?

Spark plug caps are new NGK's installed last spring.  I don't recall if they were the 5K Ohm variety or not....  The plugs were a beautiful tan color.  That was one of the first things I checked, because, um, that's all I could think of that could be wrong.  Like I said, I'm a completely inexperienced mechanic.

Included is a picture of the entire contents behind the points cover.  Don't know if you can tell if condensers are bad by sight, but, just in case.

You cannot test condensers with a regular multimeter.

[lucky]

Why you cannot adjust old points without a dwell meter.
A thickness gauge will not work.

[bjbuchanan]

All depends on the DAICHII points you get. I have a set of marked japanese ones that timed in just right after I shimmed my timing plate to take the slack out.

From all the negative backlash form daichi I'm sure they aren't all that great but I wonder how many people out there blamed it on the points when they really just didn't pay attention to all the variables

[dave500]

i wonder how many people have wired up electronic ignitions wrongly/poorly and fried them?

[fendersrule]

An update: I could NOT get my Daichii points to time in spec on my CB450 after 8 attempts. Got lucky and found a NOS points assembly plate on eBay.

You can mark me down as a Daichii non-beliveiver.

With that said, you can probably get some Daichii points that will possibly be in spec, but there's atrocious quality control. I would just pay the extra money for OEM instead of spending 4-5 hours breaking your back to time poorly made points that may/may not time correctly.

Good post lucky.

I'll post an update after I installed the Honda points.

[dave500]

four or five hours to set points?your doing it wrong,just use a boyer,fit it in half an hour.

[fendersrule]

I am doing it right. Time has sunk into playing around with the right gap in order to get the left gap reduced. Took many attempts and frustrations. Talking about a CB450 by the way.

[andrewk]

An update: I could NOT get my Daichii points to time in spec on my CB450 after 8 attempts. Got lucky and found a NOS points assembly plate on eBay.

You can mark me down as a Daichii non-beliveiver.

With that said, you can probably get some Daichii points that will possibly be in spec, but there's atrocious quality control. I would just pay the extra money for OEM instead of spending 4-5 hours breaking your back to time poorly made points that may/may not time correctly.

Good post lucky.

I'll post an update after I installed the Honda points.

Experience is the great teacher.   I learned this lesson the same way.  Nothing worse than time and money wasted.  Hope the new parts get there quick!

[fendersrule]

Gave up.



Much better.

[Black 750K8]

Wow never saw a setup like that are they NOS or new. Where did you get them and are they model specific just for 450?

[Imago]

I'm a new mechanic....yesterday my bike started missing on cylinders 1 and 4.  Sounds like an ignition issue.  I've never dealt with points before, so once I did a ton of research and got over my fears I headed down to my 77 cb750 to see if I couldn't find out what's going on.

Pulling the points cover was easy enough, but I did notice that there wasn't any sort of gasket beneath it.  Isn't there supposed to be a gasket?

I looked at the points.  All of the point faces looked pale gray and each had a dot in the middle of the face.  Upon closer inspection, the 2.3 points had a shiny metal dot, and the 1.4 faces had more of a small pit.  See attached photos.  I also noticed that the fixed point and the rocker arm point on 1.4 didn't line up directly.  The rocker arm was able to move a bit so that it wouldn't be in direct alignment with the lower point.  Sounds like a problem with the cheap "Daiichi" points I've been reading about, but I can't tell who manufactured my points.

I started filing away at the fixed arm of 1.4.  I got rid of all of the gray and made it all shiny.  I started working on the rocker arm of 1.4 and kept going and going, but I couldn't get rid of the pitting.  I didn't clean the 2.3 points, because if I have to replace one, I might as well replace both.

I checked the gaps, and 1.4 had a slightly narrower gap than stock.  Maybe that's why it was pitted, and why cylinders 1 and 4 were missing.

So my question for all y'all is...Are my above assumptions correct?  Do I need completely new points, or can I make the ones currently on the bike work with a little more elbow grease? 

If I need new points, then maybe I'll  just switch over to a Dyna-S ignition.  If the points will be okay with a little bit of work, then I'll give good old HondaMan a PM and ask for one of his ignitions.  I'd prefer to support HondaMan and this forum, but new Honda OEM points and the HondaMan ignition are pricier than the Dyna-S.

Like they said above, those points are fine. They look to have maybe 3000 miles or so on them. I suspect the condensors are a different story, though, based on the fact that they are pitting in opposite directions and the "hole" is in the moving arm on the closeup: that indicates low capacitance. Old condensors leak when cold, which makes for weak spark until the engine is hot, and causes the points to pit faster and eventually burn black, which ruins them. Far too many of these bikes have old condensors.

Look to one of our advertisers, PartsNmore.com, for low-cost, adequate condensors. They work fine on stock points and with my Ignition, both. Those points would run fine with my box, but fix the basic problem before adding electronics into the mix, whether it's mine or Dyna's.

Bad sparkplug caps (or loose ones) are a common problem on the "F" bikes: they must not measure more than 10,500 ohms (with an ohmmeter) or spark troubles will develop. NGK sells new ones at most bike shops, about $5 each, for these bikes: get the 5000 ohm ("5K") variety for best results. If yours have a dull surface finish and dry, cracked rubber boots on them, they are done, or soon will be.

Also, what color are the sparkplugs? Are they white, or charcoal?

Hondaman, which points/condensors on the PartsNMore site should I buy for my '78F? I don't want to get the wrong ones. It's also time to put in your ignition/saver module I've had for over a year!

[Black 750K8]

Hondaman, which points/condensors on the PartsNMore site should I buy for my '78F? I don't want to get the wrong ones. It's also time to put in your ignition/saver module I've had for over a year! I have the same year but a K model with Marks  ignition/saver module  Mark told me to super clean and file just a little on new points They have some crap on them to prolong shelf life. Then run it for about 100 miles before putting on his box. I think that is the way I remember it. I got my point from Honda cost a little more but with his box it may be my last set.