Author Topic: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?  (Read 6525 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2013, 06:05:43 PM »
Thanks for post TT. I thought I did the check you mentioned but that last post cleared it up for me. Back with results soon.

Just to be clear the voltage on the negative side is zero right?

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,405
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2013, 06:19:54 PM »

I did find a problem with one of the yellow wire bullet terminals under the sprocket cover. It was totally black and melted. Not sure if this IS the problem or the result of a problem.
A poor connection on a yellow stator wire would not cause the system to over-charge. It's more likely that a malfunctioning regulator caused it to overheat. With that phase no longer in the charging circuit, your running voltage is lower.   
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2013, 06:25:30 PM »
Thanks scottly
Electrical theory is definitely not my specialty so I can use all the help I can get. Appreciate the clarification 

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2013, 06:32:54 PM »
OK
So I just checked and both reading were zero.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,802
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2013, 06:38:51 PM »
Just to be clear the voltage on the negative side is zero right?

It's all relative, I'm afraid.  The Neg terminal is usually assumed to be at zero potential just to make us humans confortable.  However, the POS terminal can also be a reference point.  If you reverse the leads on your voltmeter and place the terminals on the battery posts, the meter reads  -12-ish volts right?  That is because you just changed the reference over to the POS terminal.   The meter is just telling you that one probe is at a more negative potential than the other and displays the magnitude of that differential.   In fact, all the power using devices on the bike don't care about zero volts at all, they care about a difference in potential applied to them at their power connections.  In reality the bike would be perfectly happy if the POS terminal was 100V and the Neg terminal was 88V.  The bike only sees and uses the 12 volt differential, referenced across the POS and NEG terminals.

OK
So I just checked and both reading were zero.

If you are talking about the tests I recommend, those reading are nearly impossible as it infers the switch contacts wire and connectors have Zero resistance when passing current.  Nice dream, but completely unrealistic.  All electrical conductors have SOME resistance.

I'll admit it is easier to assume that the Neg terminal is at zero volts.  But, that zero volt reference is distributed about the bike over green wires (and frame steel), that have their own connection and wire resistances.  When current is flowing, some of the POS voltage offset potential gets applied to any part of the circuit that is separated from the NEG terminal by any resistance.

Easier to show/explain with pictures and diagrams, but there it is.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2013, 06:53:22 PM »
So after consulting the schematic I discovered I made an honest mistake
 :-[


I was checking voltage on the rectifier input....ooops


New readings
meter lead on battery POSITIVE and regulator power input (BLACK) reading is .93 VDC
meter leads on battery NEGATIVE and regulator green (GRD) wire reading is .01 VDC


These reading sound better?




Just to double check my readings I did this check on my new rebuilt K4 and the readings were .39 VDC and .01 VDC


« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 07:20:11 PM by brandEn »

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,840
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2013, 08:44:48 PM »
Rough and ready check for what is blowing the bulbs:--

Look carefuly at the blown filament
If the filament is rolling arround in the glass vibration got it
If the open ends look melted with little balls on them over voltage killed it
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,802
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2013, 10:55:35 PM »
meter lead on battery POSITIVE and regulator power input (BLACK) reading is .93 VDC
meter leads on battery NEGATIVE and regulator green (GRD) wire reading is .01 VDC


These reading sound better?
The readings certainly make more sense.  But, you are losing nearly a volt between battery and vreg.  So, when the battery is at 15.4V, the vreg thinks it is 14.5V.  Kinda explains why you saw higher voltage in an earlier test.  Can't blame the regulator.

You can use the same technique you used for finding the .93V drop, by placing the meter leads on each side of each device in the path that lost the voltage.  Probably find the Key switch contacts are the major contributor to the loss.  But, testing will tell.  Track down that lossy component.


Just to double check my readings I did this check on my new rebuilt K4 and the readings were .39 VDC and .01 VDC
Not wonderful.  But, certainly livable.  There was less loss when new, I'm sure.  But, it isn't new anymore.  .5V loss is my personal threshold for seeking a cure.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2013, 04:59:16 AM »
Thanks again TT. I will check out the key switch. It is new but a cheap Emgo replacement.

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2013, 04:08:17 PM »
Hey TT can you recommend the best way to check if my switch is the issue?


I put one lead on the black regulator wire and one on the red wire going into the switch. Turned the switch on and read .5 VDC.
Sound like I am doing it right? Thanks for the help!

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,802
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2013, 04:35:44 PM »
That's the right idea.  To remove any doubt about additional included components, measuring at the switch terminals would show the sole contribution of the switch itself regarding voltage loss.

There have been other threads showing a low regard for the Emgo switch.  .5V at 10amps makes the switch dissipate 5 watts at the contacts as heat.  Without cooling airflow the heat just builds up on itself.  Possibly enough to distort the plastic holders of the contacts.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2013, 04:42:43 PM »
OK,
Looks like I got a bullet connector issue possibly. Voltage from the ignition plug red and black wires = .05VDC
That leads me to believe there is high resistance between the plug and regulator right?

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,802
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2013, 04:53:46 PM »
OK,
Looks like I got a bullet connector issue possibly. Voltage from the ignition plug red and black wires = .05VDC
That leads me to believe there is high resistance between the plug and regulator right?

Maybe.  I can't tell from here.  Keep going and narrowing your focus on component suspects.  You know you can make jumpers to break out contact points for testing.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,202
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2013, 04:56:28 PM »
Well come on up and help me out Lloyd! haha
 ;)
once again I appreciate all the replies on this one.
I am going to to dig into this deeper over the next few days but for now it sits.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

  • This MuthaF'er is getting to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,014
  • Bought her new 4/75
Re: Troubleshooting blown headlight bulbs - high voltage?
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2013, 06:24:48 PM »
My method would be to just replace the switch base with a new one as I'm 'electrically challenged'. Cheap, quick, easy and it can't hurt anything.

Hey TT can you recommend the best way to check if my switch is the issue?


I put one lead on the black regulator wire and one on the red wire going into the switch. Turned the switch on and read .5 VDC.
Sound like I am doing it right? Thanks for the help!
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)