Author Topic: CB750K7 Brake upgrade  (Read 7539 times)

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Offline Doctor Jones

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CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« on: November 13, 2013, 01:36:30 AM »
Hi all. Would anyone be able to help with these questions?
a) Is there a fork/twin leading shoe/wire wheel combo that will fit a 1977 K7 without too much machining?
b) Is there a fork/twin disc/wire wheel combo to fit the same?
Although I haven't checked I'm told a Suzuki 600 Bandit front end fits but I would rather keep everything Honda if possible.
Many thanks for any tips you may have.
Regards

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 12:00:27 PM »
1978 CB750F for would work, except for the wire wheel.
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Wobbly

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 02:05:36 PM »
The one from the 76 Goldwing might work. But if that is much better than just adding a second caliber/rotor to the side, I don't know. I doubt it. Swapping the entire fork to improve the front brake is common in this forum, apparently. It's always been beyond the scope of my--obviously--limited intellectual horizon why people do that. You do that, and the rest of the suspension and rear brake of the K models still suck. And the performance output of the engine isn't any better in comparison to more modern bikes. Why not improve all these things by simply buying a more modern 750 Honda or what have you Japanese bike? You can pick them up cheaper than a good CB750, and it will save one from being hacked to piece--which seems to be fashionable these days.

Offline martin99

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 02:43:07 PM »
Hi Doctor Jones and welcome.

What exactly are you trying to achieve? If it's an extra disc you're after, try typing 'twin disc conversion' in the search bar and you will find it comes up with lots of info.

In case you've missed it, here's an excellent ongoing thread that will give you an idea of what can be involved in swapping front ends from a non-Honda. Impressive stuff!

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131294.0


« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 02:49:29 PM by oldskoolnuts »
Build threads:
77 750F2 Refresh Project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144075.0
TRIBSA http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,160296.0.html

1977 CB750 F2
1958 Norton Model 99
2011 Triumph Street Triple 675

fendersrule

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 02:56:04 PM »
The one from the 76 Goldwing might work. But if that is much better than just adding a second caliber/rotor to the side, I don't know. I doubt it. Swapping the entire fork to improve the front brake is common in this forum, apparently. It's always been beyond the scope of my--obviously--limited intellectual horizon why people do that. You do that, and the rest of the suspension and rear brake of the K models still suck. And the performance output of the engine isn't any better in comparison to more modern bikes. Why not improve all these things by simply buying a more modern 750 Honda or what have you Japanese bike? You can pick them up cheaper than a good CB750, and it will save one from being hacked to piece--which seems to be fashionable these days.

77-78F's had dual disc front and disc rears so it's not really new tech, but I agree that swapping out the front end just to do this is in my mind, hacking.

But yea, the rest of these bikes are still severely lagging by today's standards. I thought about a dual disc conversion from the front, but the effort and money is better spent elsewhere.

If anything, upgrading to braided brake hoses is probably a good "bang-for-the-buck-and-better-than-stock-and-not-hacked" move. Keeping up on your maintenance (adjustment of caliper) and making sure you're pads are in good order is plentiful for me.

Obviously, new bikes stop WAY faster than old bikes. It's not even comparable. Not even in the slightest bit debatable. But to be honest, I never felt that I "NEEDED" to stop faster with my K8. Increase your following distance, ride within your limits, and ride safe and the brakes are plentiful and sufficient.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a drum brake on the rear, either. 10-20%, tops, of stopping power is supplied by rear brakes. I'm sure drums are perfectly equipped for that.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 03:00:49 PM by fendersrule »

Offline Patrick

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 02:57:19 PM »
The front fork from a late 70's DOHC 750 is a bolt on improvement. If offers dual disk brakes and dual piston calipers. I could not, however, find a spoke wheel that fits.

Patrick
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 05:43:41 PM »
The one from the 76 Goldwing might work. But if that is much better than just adding a second caliber/rotor to the side, I don't know. I doubt it. Swapping the entire fork to improve the front brake is common in this forum, apparently. It's always been beyond the scope of my--obviously--limited intellectual horizon why people do that. You do that, and the rest of the suspension and rear brake of the K models still suck. And the performance output of the engine isn't any better in comparison to more modern bikes. Why not improve all these things by simply buying a more modern 750 Honda or what have you Japanese bike? You can pick them up cheaper than a good CB750, and it will save one from being hacked to piece--which seems to be fashionable these days.

You just don't get it, do you?
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Offline scottly

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 05:49:54 PM »
If the goal is better braking, the easiest method is to simply add a second K7/K8 caliper and a rotor from any K 750.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline 78whiteorbs

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 06:05:22 PM »
 also XS 650 Yamaha front ends (spoke rim) with dual disk , slide them forks up in them trees and go.

Offline timbo750

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 09:24:53 PM »
I have a front end from a 77K Police bike with standard twin disks, but as a couple of people have already said a second caliper assembly can be fitted to your existing forks and to get the best out of it you will most likely have upgrade the master cylinder, install a manifold in the brake line to split the flow to both wheels and also fit braided lines.

Offline ozpacman

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 03:49:26 AM »
Okay you're going to test my memory here but this is what I recall doing with my K7 back in 1978!

Starting with the standard front wheel I simply bolted on an additional CB750 disc rotor using GoldWing disc bolts through the hub.  Wings came standard with twin discs so these were perfect in length.  My brother kindly took both discs and drilled them in a beautiful pattern that looked extremely trick back in the day let me tell you! 

I then purchased and fitted a left side fork slider and fitted it to the right side fork tube and added the second caliper on the mounts.

I recall modifying the tabs on the speed drive so that it would still do it's job but I can't recall exactly what I had to do to it, but I know it worked!

I then removed the brake light switch up under the triple clamp and plumbed the new brake line for the second disc into there.  My riding style sees both F&R brakes being used together always so I didn't see this as being an issue.

I figured that I was probably going to need a bit more beef at the master cylinder so purchased a new GS1000 Suzuki unit and bolted that up.

Then it was simply a matter of adding fluid and bleeding them out and she was good to go.  I can definitely recall the dramatic improvement in braking performance and I would still consider this would be a good mod to do even today.

I've attached a photo of the old girl here just for a laugh.  Those are genuine J&R pipes that cost me about 4 weeks wages back then!  You can also see my Kawasaki H2 steering damper there as well. 

Cheers,

Russ
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 03:53:53 AM by ozpacman »

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2013, 04:01:06 AM »
Lemme pitch in with the speedo drive:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=70195.0

That's one way to do it, I made my own adapter from chunk of aluminum.
Prokop
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2013, 07:56:52 AM »
The one from the 76 Goldwing might work. But if that is much better than just adding a second caliber/rotor to the side, I don't know. I doubt it.

the advantage to the GL setup isn't just the brake, it is the 37mm forks with a slightly wider overall track. The stock 35mm forks aren't the greatest things in the world every little bit helps.
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Wobbly

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2013, 08:44:34 AM »
The one from the 76 Goldwing might work. But if that is much better than just adding a second caliber/rotor to the side, I don't know. I doubt it.

the advantage to the GL setup isn't just the brake, it is the 37mm forks with a slightly wider overall track. The stock 35mm forks aren't the greatest things in the world every little bit helps.
40 or 35 years ago, I would have agreed. But now you can get a newer, used bike for very little money that outperforms the Honda in every aspect (but dependability). Adding a second disc, getting better shocks, or installing an electronic ignition is all good and fine. But when you start to butcher the CB 750, is where I draw the line. It doesn't make sense to me. Follow that path, and you have to replace the engine, then the rear frame. It is simpler and cleaner to just buy another bike. By the way: the Goldwing suspension was atrocious at high speeds. There were numerous accidents reported with the first Goldwings, not few of them which ended deadly. I have vivid memories about this because a fellow soldier died in one of them back in the day. People can do what they want to their bikes, may it be tasteful or not. But I mind the fact that these slapped together bikes (everyone is an engineer these days), that would never pass a serious safety inspection, are sharing public roads with me.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2013, 09:07:45 AM »
Is Germany that bad?  Amazing  ;D
Prokop
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2013, 09:31:46 AM »
40 or 35 years ago, I would have agreed. But now you can get a newer, used bike for very little money that outperforms the Honda in every aspect (but dependability). Adding a second disc, getting better shocks, or installing an electronic ignition is all good and fine. But when you start to butcher the CB 750, is where I draw the line. It doesn't make sense to me. Follow that path, and you have to replace the engine, then the rear frame. It is simpler and cleaner to just buy another bike. By the way: the Goldwing suspension was atrocious at high speeds. There were numerous accidents reported with the first Goldwings, not few of them which ended deadly. I have vivid memories about this because a fellow soldier died in one of them back in the day. People can do what they want to their bikes, may it be tasteful or not. But I mind the fact that these slapped together bikes (everyone is an engineer these days), that would never pass a serious safety inspection, are sharing public roads with me.

What's to butcher? the GL uses the same steering head bearings as the CB750. Nothing you do in this conversion can't be undone to the cb750. So who is buthcering anything?

the goldwing "suspension" issue you talk about relates to the rear suspension more than the forks. The rear coil spring was too light and the rear shock was under dampned and when pushed would cause all sorts of weight transfer and jacking issues, usually at speed.

This isn't a modern slapped together mod, it's been around since the bikes were new and it's been tested and proven by many. Plus 40 years of progress has happened and if the forks really bother you, you can get better springs, cartridge emulators, and better fork oil for both the stock 35mm and the 37mm forks.

when the cb750 was new, the average car had four wheel drum brakes and a stopping distance well into 200 feet from 60mph if they were perfectly serviced (few were). There were few things the CB750 could outstop back then. Now a 10 year old minivan with worn pads can outstop you. There is nothing wrong with brake and suspension upgrades to compensate for modern traffic. And thicker forks help this as much as better brakes. BTW, we aren't talking about radically better brakes, just better than what was available stock. Ever see a cb750 lock up the front wheel? you can watch the fork vibrate back and forth as it tries to tuck under the bike.

Wobbly, I don't really care where you draw the line - but it would help if you knew what you were talking about before you drew one at all. I will agree that there are too many "kids" just throwing on sportbike front ends with no consideration to geometry and getting themselves in trouble, but there are also some things out there that have been evaluated both from an engineering standpoint and trial and error and actually work. I don't advocate sportbike front ends unless you feel like doing a year's worth of math homework (I put an fzr600 front end on my h1 and yes it took me a year to figure out safe geometry). If you look at the racing classes that have the SOHC cb750, there is a reason the fork size is limited to 38mm (with exceptions for Rickman 42mm forks). When the Rickman bros first designed their frame they used a 42mm home manufactured fork and then a 38mm betor fork - but they didn't go back to a 35mm even though there was one available from all the good manufacturers (Ceriani, Marzocchi, Betor, Showa).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 10:44:48 AM by Geeto67 »
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Offline Doctor Jones

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2013, 03:15:30 AM »
Hi all and many thanks for the help and advice. I'm certainly keen not to butcher anything and indeed I'll try to keep as much Honda in the bike as possible but as I get older and my taste for bikes ages with me I find the braking power to be alarmingly poor - specifically so on this bike. If you compare my Triumph 1050 Speed Triple for example, there is a frightening difference and yes, this is a modern bike but modern traffic stops (sometimes randomly) a lot quicker than I can on the Honda. Just wanna be safe and have as much in reserve as I can whilst still having fun.
Wish I were in the USA right now as the second-hand spares market in the UK is not a friendly place to be.
Ride safe.

Wobbly

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2013, 04:41:04 AM »
Is Germany that bad?  Amazing  ;D

No, it's that good. That is why none of us want to return to the States, and I be retiring here. Only Vicenza, Italy, would be more to my liking, but it is impossible to find a position there. I prefer to watch the madness in the States from a distance--and I am not just referring to vehicle safety or lack thereof. Besides, it be a long way to the Alps from San Diego.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2013, 06:10:36 AM »
Ordnung! Is everything to you :)

They could not pay me enough to live in Germany, nice country but full of Germans.
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Offline Mr. Mike

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2013, 09:03:02 PM »
Hey Russ,
Who's the mfgr on that sweet little fairing on the old girl?
2002 Electra Glide
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Offline Don R

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2013, 09:24:15 PM »
If the goal is better braking, the easiest method is to simply add a second K7/K8 caliper and a rotor from any K 750.

I did that, and love it. It's almost a bolt on and my bike will punish the front tire if I want to.   The drum, in good condition will lock at will too, but the 75-76 750F had a rear disc with a wire wheel. The rear M/C mount and pedal would require fabrication though.
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Offline ozpacman

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2013, 12:18:02 AM »
Hey Russ,
Who's the mfgr on that sweet little fairing on the old girl?

The bike wasn't even a year old in that pic Mr Mike!

There was an Australian movie called 'Stone' that was released in the mid 70's.  The main players were a fictional motorcycle club called the Grave Diggers and it was filmed around Sydney.  All the members rode Kawasaki 900's and they were all fitted with a small bikini fairing. 

As young blokes, we all thought the bikes in the movie they were very cool so everyone was running fairings for a good while.  They were so popular that they became universally known as a 'Stone' fairing!  The movie was a big deal at the time but like a lot of those old flicks, it's a bit cringe worthy when you watch it now!   

I recall that I bought it from a little shop in Brisbane called ABA, but they'd be no doubt long gone now.   I  see they're still available - although these versions are plastic they're probably a better fit than our old fibreglass ones:

http://www.zpower.com.au/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2007/products_id/396

I loved that K7 and thought I was a pretty big deal when I was zooming around on it.  The pipes were the thing.  Just about everyone was running a locally manufactured 4 into 1 in those days which cost about $80 to buy.  I bit the bullet on those J&R's and imported them from the US.  They cost me about $260 back in '79.  I couldn't afford to eat for a month but man - I was cool!

They were great days!

Russ
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 02:11:36 AM by ozpacman »

Offline Mr. Mike

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Re: CB750K7 Brake upgrade
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2013, 11:31:57 PM »
Yep...they were. Thanks for the link to Z.
2002 Electra Glide
1978 750K
1966 CL77 (sold)
2020 CB500X