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Offline TwoTired

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How long until...
« on: November 19, 2013, 10:03:50 am »
Now that we have national "health care (insurance)" that can collect and monitor every individual's medical history into a federal database, how long until everyone's DNA sample is also collected by the Federal government computers at birth?

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Offline simon#42

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2013, 10:09:03 am »
i wouldn't get to paranoid just yet , we have had  national health for years and nobody takes dna samples at birth .

Offline TwoTired

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2013, 11:10:12 am »
i wouldn't get to paranoid just yet, we have had  national health for years and nobody takes dna samples at birth .
...that you know of...

Or, you might just be desensitized to government intrusion.  But, it is an interesting comment coming from a country that has every single person registered at birth as a future taxpayer, and uses widespread video monitoring/recording of their subjects.  I imagine that all seems very normal and acceptable to you.

Anyway, it's not paranoia.  I'm just looking towards the horizon to be prepared for the eventuality, even if 100 years from now.

Simple fact is that governments have always used technology (and/or force) to mine resources from the populace.  That is just historical fact.

One example for the U.S. is the tax system, easy for computers to calculate what's due, nearly impossible for the taxpayer to fathom the minimum requirement without overpaying.

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Offline flybox1

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2013, 11:11:58 am »
Now that we have national "health care (insurance)" that can collect and monitor every individual's medical history into a federal database, how long until everyone's DNA sample is also collected by the Federal government computers at birth?
You don't think its already being done?  ;D
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 11:25:59 am »
I think some states already catalog DNA samples for felons when they enter the system.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 12:43:29 pm »
I think some states already catalog DNA samples for felons when they enter the system.
They sure as he!! better!
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 12:45:22 pm »
..that can collect and monitor every individual's medical history into a federal database,..

If one is over 65, they have been doing it since the inception of Medicare. ;)
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Offline martin99

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 01:07:02 pm »
i wouldn't get to paranoid just yet , we have had  national health for years and nobody takes dna samples at birth .

No, but they can take it if you are arrested, and it remains on a database even if it is proved you have done nothing wrong.
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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 02:17:49 pm »
Now that we have national "health care (insurance)" that can collect and monitor every individual's medical history into a federal database, how long until everyone's DNA sample is also collected by the Federal government computers at birth?

There are so many things wrong with this it is hard to know where to begin. We don't have a "national health care (insurance)" The ACA simply requires everyone to have insurance and sets some guidelines about what that insurance must cover. Most everyone will be covered through a private insurance company unless they qualify for Medicaid or Medicare. Those private insurance companies have been monitoring and collecting your medical history and used that information to deny coverage or cancel people every day.

Believe me I probably like Obamacare less than you, but for real reasons.

Offline simon#42

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2013, 02:19:36 pm »
suppose for a minute the do take a sample , what problems do you see this causing ?

Offline ofreen

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2013, 02:24:40 pm »
.

Or, you might just be desensitized to government intrusion.  But, it is an interesting comment coming from a country that has every single person registered at birth as a future taxpayer, and uses widespread video monitoring/recording of their subjects.  I imagine that all seems very normal and acceptable to you.


I reckon we in the "land of the free" shouldn't be too smug considering the proliferation of cameras here. Back in the 70's, if someone told me there would be this many cameras now, i would have said no way would people put up with it, that the cameras would be torn down by outraged citizens. One of things I didn't figure on (besides people's complacency) was that the cameras would be so small that people wouldn't even be aware of them. Hell, even the Forest Service has cameras out in the woods now. Like I always say, Orwell was a genius, his calendar was off a little is all.
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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2013, 02:30:34 pm »
No offence to you guys but since your governments regulations on scrutinizing visitors I've decided I shall never set foot in your land...even though I would love to see the Grand Canyon. Too much "Big Brother" for me.

http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/shortcuts/2013/jan/25/game-destroy-cctv-cameras-berlin
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 02:35:45 pm by LesterPiglet »
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline martin99

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2013, 03:13:59 pm »
The Big Brother thing galls me too, but if it's about stopping people coming into the country who are intent on causing harm then I think we have to accept it as a sad sign of the times. I've been to the States a few times now, and TBH I find all the security pretty reassuring. And TT is right - the CCTV is a lot less obtrusive in the places I've been in the USA than it is in your average English town.

The DNA thing is something else. If you were a time traveler from 100 years ago and pitched up today, you would think you had landed in some unimaginable futuristic world, technology's moved on so fast. Who knows what will happen with all those samples 100 years from now. The last attempt to create a perfect race didn't turn out too well for anybody did it?
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2013, 03:15:33 pm »
No offence to you guys but since your governments regulations on scrutinizing visitors I've decided I shall never set foot in your land...even though I would love to see the Grand Canyon. Too much "Big Brother" for me.

That's hilarious.  Government "control" and scrutiny in the UK is precisely why I will never go there.  ...Or for all of Europe for that matter.  Well, that and the universal hate for Americans, fomented by government controlled media.

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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2013, 03:21:52 pm »
I know what it's like here TT but I can't emigrate. I'm still not sharing my bits with the US if I can help it. I do my best to keep my details off databases here.
This is Northern Ireland by the way, not England. We still burn turf and have oxen.  :P
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline 72 yellow

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2013, 03:53:47 pm »
suppose for a minute the do take a sample , what problems do you see this causing ?
The continuing loss of any privacy for one...

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2013, 03:58:13 pm »
Well, that and the universal hate for Americans, fomented by government controlled media.
It isn't a universal hate for Americans. It is a worldwide hate for the US governments agenda. I don't think any other beings in the universe know the USA exists.
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« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 03:59:47 pm by LesterPiglet »
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline TwoTired

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2013, 03:59:46 pm »
The ACA simply requires everyone to have insurance and sets some guidelines about what that insurance must cover.

Part of the ACA requires doctors to turn over patient records to the FED's central database, through no agreement (or knowledge) by any individual.
I see this as being quite different in principle, from allowing or withdrawing agreement regarding those records with a private company having limited distribution of that data.

I've been able to live my life with relative anonymity.  I wasn't fingerprinted as a child, never arrested.  Heck, I wasn't even fingerprinted in the US Navy.   I don't believe there is any legal reason for the FEDs to have my fingerprints, DNA, or my medical records.

Still, I'm sure I'm on some suspected terrorist watch list because I WAS in the military, and there is or was a record of me purchasing a gun (which is against federal regulations to retain).  But, they don't really have a bonafide easy way to track all my movements or whereabouts...yet.  Certainly the mandatory report of medical records allows one step closer capability to know where everyone is at any time (and what drugs they are likely to require to survive).  I think there are very few people that can avoid a doctor's visit in their lifetime. Whether individual tracking was the original intended purpose or not.  The effect is there and the capability can used in future actions without indemnifying any government individual or agency.  Further, databases can be corrupted, altered, or hacked, which can put me at some unwarranted risk.  All without my knowledge or agreement.

I'm well aware I do not have total control over my life.  But, I am loathe to relinquish what control I do have, on a bureaucrats whim and with no possible benefit to me.


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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2013, 04:02:55 pm »
At Passport Control, most foreign travellers need go through the US-VISIT process. A CBP officer takes your electronic fingerprints and a photograph as part of your travel record.
On yer bike.
Not having my fingerprints. To me it makes me feel like a criminal.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 04:05:09 pm by LesterPiglet »
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline 70CB750

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2013, 04:05:52 pm »
TT dont you need fingerprints for CCW?  We need that in VA - besides as alien, before I was citizen,  I was fingerprinted 4 times at least.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2013, 04:10:29 pm »
Well, that and the universal hate for Americans, fomented by government controlled media.
It isn't a universal hate for Americans. It is a worldwide hate for the US governments agenda.

But, if I travel abroad, I'm still an American, and instantly accessible to bestow discontent regarding any perceived agenda, real or imagined.

I've watched british tv programs, both entertainment shows as well as news shows.  Rare things aren't presented where Americans aren't inferior, stupid, or brigandish.
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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2013, 04:11:49 pm »
I may be one of the few TT, I don't have TV. I am not a sheeple. I do not judge a book by it's cover.

I came back from Holland by ferry to Harwich in England and was disgusted as people sang derogatory songs about Europe when we left dock, I also heard an older gentleman talking about "darkies" at the same time.
WTF? Live and let live.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 04:16:26 pm by LesterPiglet »
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline TwoTired

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2013, 04:23:58 pm »
TT dont you need fingerprints for CCW? 
Yeah, nowadays in California you need fingerprints to transfer a gun or even ammunition.  CCW, as well, I'm sure.  Apply for one all you like.  But, you can't get a CCW here unless you are law enforcement, a politician, or have close personal ties to a politician.  Must have complete control over the people, don't you know.  Only elected officials can be trusted.  ::)

I'll be out of state, soon.  Hopefully, within a year or maybe two.
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Offline nccb

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2013, 07:03:40 pm »
I don't know who you should be more worried about: internet companies such as google or Facebook; or a barely functioning government that is to tied up in its own drama to pass basic legislature and can be shutdown by a minority conservative political party who panders to an even smaller constituency  8)


Offline scottly

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Re: How long until...
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2013, 07:56:10 pm »
How long until this thread is locked due to the political nature? ::)
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