Author Topic: Best points and condensers to buy? (Read 7518 times)

mario medeiros · « **on:** November 19, 2013, 06:22:58 PM »

Have a 75cb550 nothing wrong with the points or condensers just after so many years I thought I should replace them?who makes the best set?or are they all the same? Or should I just leave it be?thanks

DH · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2013, 07:39:37 PM »

www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/sohcign.html

This is a good article. Some may agree, some may not. Worked for me.

Should apply to the 550 as well. I've done the gl 1000 coil switch too.
LOTS more plug wire length, which is very nice. Trim it/forget it.
Coils fit with no mods in stock brackets. Talks about points thoroughly.

Black 750K8 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2013, 08:30:19 PM »

Dimitri13 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2013, 09:24:32 PM »

Stock/TEC/Toyo Electric Company (all the same thing) and HondaMan's transistorized ignition.

HondaMan · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2013, 09:56:35 PM »

Avoid the Daiichi brand. They have a tiny little "clover"-like emblem stamped on many of them. They are poor quality, don't time up properly, and the contacts have thin tungsten that burns quickly (unless used with my Ignition - but that won't fix the timing issue). The condensors used to be OK, but lately have been reported to be shorting out, which is curious. This means they don't have enough insulation rating, so the 400v+ kickback from the coils is eating them up.

Honda sells the whole plate, pre-assembled and timed, from TEC (Dimitri's post ^^). Those often drop in, time one side (1-4), the other is done already. Very nice! If you have the option, go to Ace Hardware and get 3 of their 5x16mm stainless bolts with washers to replace the screws for the timing plate. This combination makes things a lot easier during setup, and they don't strip out later on.

andrewk · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2013, 10:06:17 PM »

The new OEM plate assembly is the way to go for sure. More money, but trouble free. Off brand plates often need shimmed to be perfectly aligned

Dimitri13 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2013, 10:24:15 PM »

But don't forget about the advance springs. Over time they anneal (soften), and the advance curve is messed up (advance kicks in too early). The typical fix for that is to cut a certain amount of of coils off and bending a new hook, essentially making the springs stiffer.

I'm sure HondaMan or any of the other gurus will chime in and expand on that.

And also don't forget about replacing the plug wires and boots, as over time they lose resistance (I think that's what it is) and can cause issues as well.

fendersrule · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:10:49 PM »

Quote from: HondaMan on November 19, 2013, 09:56:35 PM

Avoid the Daiichi brand. They have a tiny little "clover"-like emblem stamped on many of them. They are poor quality, don't time up properly, and the contacts have thin tungsten that burns quickly (unless used with my Ignition - but that won't fix the timing issue). The condensors used to be OK, but lately have been reported to be shorting out, which is curious. This means they don't have enough insulation rating, so the 400v+ kickback from the coils is eating them up.

Honda sells the whole plate, pre-assembled and timed, from TEC (Dimitri's post ^^). Those often drop in, time one side (1-4), the other is done already. Very nice! If you have the option, go to Ace Hardware and get 3 of their 5x16mm stainless bolts with washers to replace the screws for the timing plate. This combination makes things a lot easier during setup, and they don't strip out later on.

I thought I was reading something from you before that you were testing the MIJ Daiichi points/condensers and you had found somewhat favorable results from their usual Made-In-China offerings?

I am in no way an expert on this, but I installed MIJ Daiichi points/condensers on a CB450 and had no issues with setting the static timing.

People will always say the "Buy the TEC, TOYO ONLY" statements, but when it comes time to put the money to where the mouth is, you simply can't find them for sale. I've never seen OEM points for either the CB750 or the CB450 available anywhere, but maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.

How much can one plan to spend on a OEM plate assembly?

Jayelwin · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:31:50 PM »

Why not just go electronic? It's a hidden part so won't spoil an authentic look.

Mooshie · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:55:53 PM »

Quote from: Dimitri13 on November 19, 2013, 09:24:32 PM

Stock/TEC/Toyo Electric Company (all the same thing) and HondaMan's transistorized ignition.

+1 on all of those (especially Hondaman's ignition). I found NOS TEC point plate on Ebay. Very reasonable. Just make certain it is a TEC (it says so next to the 1-4 (just a tad above I think) points. So check out the picture not just what they say. I could have also gotten it from my Honda dealer but a tad more $$ so they can be found fairly easily.

Hastenbrucke · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2013, 03:59:28 PM »

agree TEC only ..I replaced my plate, condensers and points with the D" brand and immediately decided to change them out to TEC ..ACE will attest as to how bad some of the aftermarket sets are.

mario medeiros · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2013, 05:04:10 PM »

So again if your points and condensers are not giving you any problems do you replace them just because?not sure how long they have been there and who's make they are?btw honda wants $98 for the complete plate.not being cheap I will buy whatever I need just do I replace or is it a why fix something that ain't broke?

Dimitri13 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2013, 06:41:32 PM »

Because it's a wear item. Would you leave your oil filter in place if it wasn't giving you any problems? If your plate is TEC, I believe you can just buy the points and condensors (not the entire assembly).

Fenders, Honda dealer carries them, as well as a few of the CB stores, like DCC, DSS, cmsnl, etc.

fendersrule · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2013, 07:00:04 PM »

Here's some prices for a CB450:

POINTS, L.
30204-292-003 (replaces 30204-292-154) 001 $37.80

POINTS, R.
30203-292-003 (replaces 30203-292-154) 001 $37.55

I don't even want to look at the prices for the condensers. This already is nearly $80 + shipping for POINTS!!!!!!! Are you willing to place a bet that these would be discontinued if I were to order them?

Here's points for my CB750:

POINTS (2&3)
30204-300-154 001 $33.13

POINTS (1&4)
30203-300-154 001 $33.13

Again, nearly $70 for friggen points that likely won't be in stock!!!

I think people make too much big of deal out of aftermarket points. They are not computer chips or high tech items. They are simple machinisms that flap together to make an electrical connection. I'm just not convinced that TEC is the ONLY way you will ever get your bike to run right. And honestly, you should not just "replace" them without inspecting so in some ways, they are NOT like an oil filter. The Honda manual shows what to look for to determine if they need replacement. I have five 70s Hondas in my shop (soon to be six), and not one of them have "bad" looking points that shows any of the deformities shown in the Honda manual. I think there's a lot of splitting hairs here.

HondaMan · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2013, 08:04:26 PM »

Well, the issues we have all had with the Daiichi points in the Fours is well documented in these forums. To be specific: they appear to be closer to the ones from the Yamaha 750 Triple, which while resembling the ones for the SOHC4 engines, have a different pivot geometry by about 5 degrees. This results in having to set the L side to .016" to .019" to make the timing marks line up with the plate fully up against the slots' stops, and then the R points must be set at .012" and fully against the sub-plate stops to get into 'line'. This is unacceptable at best, as it causes non-symmetric timing which becomes quite a buzz in the frame at speeds over 4000 RPM.

Some of us have also experienced the Daiichi-China points coming apart at the pivot, the tungsten plating flaking off, the foot rubbing away in just a few thousand miles, or the contacts being so misaligned that they only close on one edge or another. I have about 8 sets of these in my parts drawers as momentos, and they will be starring in my next Performance Handbook (as things "not to do with your SOHC4").

flybox1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2013, 08:31:08 PM »

Find a stock, used points plate on eBay, from a low mileage bike.
I've done this twice, and found salvageable points for about $30ea, that I'm now running w my HM ignition module.

HondaMan · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2013, 10:15:49 PM »

Quote from: flybox1 on November 20, 2013, 08:31:08 PM

Find a stock, used points plate on eBay, from a low mileage bike.
I've done this twice, and found salvageable points for about $30ea, that I'm now running w my HM ignition module.

That's exactly what I do to the bikes I rebuild. I've found the used points work better with my box than new ones do! Interesting discovery...

andrewk · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2013, 05:08:36 AM »

Quote from: fendersrule on November 20, 2013, 07:00:04 PM

Here's some prices for a CB450:

POINTS, L.
30204-292-003 (replaces 30204-292-154)   001   $37.80

POINTS, R.
30203-292-003 (replaces 30203-292-154)   001   $37.55

I don't even want to look at the prices for the condensers. This already is nearly $80 + shipping for POINTS!!!!!!! Are you willing to place a bet that these would be discontinued if I were to order them?

Here's points for my CB750:

POINTS (2&3)
30204-300-154   001   $33.13

POINTS (1&4)
30203-300-154   001   $33.13

Again, nearly $70 for friggen points that likely won't be in stock!!!

I think people make too much big of deal out of aftermarket points. They are not computer chips or high tech items. They are simple machinisms that flap together to make an electrical connection. I'm just not convinced that TEC is the ONLY way you will ever get your bike to run right. And honestly, you should not just "replace" them without inspecting so in some ways, they are NOT like an oil filter. The Honda manual shows what to look for to determine if they need replacement. I have five 70s Hondas in my shop (soon to be six), and not one of them have "bad" looking points that shows any of the deformities shown in the Honda manual. I think there's a lot of splitting hairs here.

When you get there, and have the problem, you'll know. That's about all anyone can say. When you get a bad set of points that don't time for squat and you just cant figure it out, you might learn the same lesson being told to you here today. They might just "flap together" but they still are a precision part.

For the 550/750, don't even bother with buying the points individually. You can buy the plate assembly (30200-300-154) for cheaper than the points and condensers individually. I got mine new from Honda for around 80 bucks, (120 list price!) and it's still available for that price if you know where to buy. (I've provided you the link a few times now...) You can get it from any dealer for 120.

It's true you don't change points like an oil filter. That's why 80 bucks wouldn't phase me much for an ignition. The points/condenser will last a long time. Cheap junk is cheap junk. Can't tell you how many diahchi points I've thrown away that won't time out evenly. Even new they sometimes barely work. Something you discover when you work on lots of these things.

TL;DR: Honda still makes these parts. Get the good parts while you still can, and don't mess with cheap junk if you want your ride to be the best it can be.

cabrala · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2013, 05:14:31 AM »

Agree with Andrew above. I needed new points and condensers but ended up with a whole new TEC assembly for $90. Buying the parts individually would've cost way more.

My local buddies wondered why I didn't just go with an electronic set-it and forget-it module.

andrewk · « **Reply #19 on:** November 21, 2013, 05:24:52 AM »

Points are attractive to me because if I ever have problems out on the road, I'm not stuck wishing in one hand and sh**** in the other. Get out the file, clean 'em up, and get home. Heck, if you carry a small jumper wire with you, you can even static time it on the road with the neutral light.

That said, I've never had problems with my points on the road. But I've had to ride a couple people two up home when their dyna-s failed. A benefit of the HM transistor box I suppose.

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:00:08 AM »

Oh lord, can't they just sell the decent condensors and points separately for those of us that don't want to buy an entire plate at a reasonable price? This pisses me off to no end how these companies do this crap.
I was thinking about getting my plate set up with new condensors and checking out the points for when my Dyna eventually bites the dust.
Knowing this information does not help.

flybox1 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2013, 12:01:34 PM »

two used plates on feebay w free shipping for under $20/ea...

Nic · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2013, 12:32:04 PM »

Quote from: HondaMan on November 20, 2013, 08:04:26 PM

This is unacceptable at best, as it causes non-symmetric timing which becomes quite a buzz in the frame at speeds over 4000 RPM.

Well I have the cheap points in mine and what I find is that every time I do the screw up after setting the gap the bloody gap has changed, so anyway, my bike has a bad vibration at around 4k rpm that makes it impossible to see anything in the mirrors so I just bought the whole TEC plate ass which seemed to be cheaper than just points and condensers. Here's hoping the vibration goes away with the new points

Back in the day you never had a problem like this, who'd av thought it was the points

HondaMan · « **Reply #23 on:** November 21, 2013, 05:22:49 PM »

Quote from: Crush on November 21, 2013, 05:14:31 AM

Agree with Andrew above. I needed new points and condensers but ended up with a whole new TEC assembly for $90. Buying the parts individually would've cost way more.

My local buddies wondered why I didn't just go with an electronic set-it and forget-it module.

Get one of my boxes and show them how you can not only 'set and forget', but have 100% backup out on the road, to boot!

I once mentioned this to a vintage car guy, so put one on his 1958 T-Bird before a car show. Next thing that happened was: I had special orders all up and down the East Coast for pretty colored-box units for cars, for almost a year! Car points are becoming scarce, and this thing lets them run for a LONG time.

..now I sound like a salesman... $:-\$

fendersrule · « **Reply #24 on:** November 21, 2013, 06:22:09 PM »

Hondaman,

Someone like me though who "collects" Hondas--it's kind of an expensive thing to buy electronic ignitions for all of them...

I'm not doubting your awesome knowledge. Thanks for writing what you did! So far, I'm not finding any vibration with the Diiatchi Points/Condensers on the CB450. Bike seems smooth throughout all the RPMs. It's not running to it's full potential yet, but I'm attributing that to the Keyster carb kit parts...going to put back in the original jets/needles soon to see if that brings it back to the performance that it should have.

I agree with what others are saying in that we need to be able to buy aftermarket points that don't break the bank that WORK right. Spending nearly $100 for points is not a smart idea.

I just find it hard to believe that every aftermarket ignition tune up kit sucks, yet they still stay in business, and yet every reputable shop (Sirius Consolidated, CB750Supply, Outwest Motorcycles, etc) sell them.

Usually things that completely suck don't last too long in the market...

By the way, how much is your kit for a CB450? Since I'm building an "all out" model, I'd like to give it try. My points aren't too bad, either.

Edit: $70 + shipping. I will have questions (that will probably be answered by anything you send me) how to set up my points to work with your ignition. Settings CB450 points/timing is completely different than SOHC Fours.

You sell gas tank pins? Do you happen to have an eBay store? I bought some REALLY nice ones with circlips on them that don't require mushrooming for the CB450. Did they come from you?

andrewk · « **Reply #25 on:** November 21, 2013, 07:16:24 PM »

Does anyone bat an eye at 130 for a set of new coils?

There's just some things that cost money on these bikes. Do it right once, and you don't worry about it again.

I want a cheap points plate too. But I'd rather pay double for one that works right than mess around extending slots and shimming cheap flimsy plates. New, used, however you do it- get good parts.

Things that suck exist everywhere. They exist in the market so long as people buy them.

Just because you haven't witnessed the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The problem is more wide production tolerances and cheap manufacturing than it is a completely wrong design.

HondaMan · « **Reply #26 on:** November 21, 2013, 07:30:11 PM »

Quote from: fendersrule on November 21, 2013, 06:22:09 PM

I just find it hard to believe that every aftermarket ignition tune up kit sucks, yet they still stay in business, and yet every reputable shop (Sirius Consolidated, CB750Supply, Outwest Motorcycles, etc) sell them.

Usually things that completely suck don't last too long in the market...

By the way, how much is your kit for a CB450? Since I'm building an "all out" model, I'd like to give it try. My points aren't too bad, either.

Edit: $70 + shipping. I will have questions (that will probably be answered by anything you send me) how to set up my points to work with your ignition. Settings CB450 points/timing is completely different than SOHC Fours.

You sell gas tank pins? Do you happen to have an eBay store? I bought some REALLY nice ones with circlips on them that don't require mushrooming for the CB450. Did they come from you?

The "gas tank pins" I have are simple screws with acorn nuts, in 18-8 stainless steel (non-sparking) and matching washers. They are just a fundraising thing I do for these forums, sending the proceeds back to the 'donations' place.

The Ignition is $72 plus shipping to the forum members, via check or money order to me. The same box fits all Twins and Fours: I also make them for 6 & 12 volt Singles, the 'brand X' Triples like Suzy and Kawi, and for vintage cars, trucks, boats, and tractors out there. The ones for cars (etc.) are a little different type from the bike versions, though.

In all cases, these just plug into the existing bike wire harnesses, with a ground wire that must go directly to the points plate (for special reasons). They are pretty easy to install, once you decide where the box should go.

74750k4 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2013, 03:53:36 PM »

4 into 1 parts seem to be Dai chi specialists!

http://4into1.com/search.php?search_query=points

Dimitri13 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 22, 2013, 04:26:39 PM »

No, they just do us a favor and let us know the brand, so we know what to avoid

andrewk · « **Reply #29 on:** November 25, 2013, 07:37:11 AM »

Here's a relevant thread, not two days after the discussion.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131982.msg1474935#new

I'm sure this guy isn't just making something out of nothing. Junk parts=junk running bike.

News:

Author Topic: Best points and condensers to buy? (Read 7518 times)

DH

Black 750K8

fendersrule

fendersrule

Nic

fendersrule