Author Topic: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others  (Read 12654 times)

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Offline chewbacca5000

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73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« on: September 20, 2011, 05:44:56 PM »
I have a 1973 CB750 and Number 1 cylinder is not heating up like the others.  It is about half as hot.  Spark, and fuel level check ok too.  Any ideas?

KingCustomCycles.com

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 05:51:18 PM »
Look at the plug, dark is fuel fouled from a rich mixture and shiny like new is lean.  Could be intermittent ignition also, trim the lead at the end and inspect inside the plug boot for corrosion.  That is a start at least.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 06:05:27 PM »
Last time I checked the plug looks tan colored.  I trimmed 1/4" from the plug wires and it did not make any difference neither did Iridium plugs.  I have stock exhaust w baffles, K & N filter, 110 mains, 1 clip from bottom. Air screw 1 turn out.  Compression on 1 w no carbs is 150 PSI while not perfect should be enough.  My other bike reads 175 with no carbs.

Once in a while it feels like 1 will kick on, but most of the time it just feels soggy.  I have adjusted float height using a hose and the level is just below the gasket at the from of the carb.  My floats are not new and am not sure the 26mm thing will work.

I might also have leaky needle valves to go along with a leaky petcock which could be over gassing 1.

It feels like it is only firing 1/2 the time.  Is it possible that the coil could fire 4 properly but not 1?  I have an extra coil I could switch with. 

I am probably going to have to tear into this engine to fix a leaky puck, but would like to sort out the cylinder 1 not firing issue before I do so.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 06:18:16 PM »
Swap plugs or replace them.  If it is a plug problem it will move with the plug, or be eliminated with a replacement.

Have you checked points for gap, timing and contacts cleaned to bare metal?
How old are the condensers?  Do problems follow if you change them side for side?

Do you know that the pilot jet is clean and clear on #1 carb?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 06:27:48 PM »
I have check the timing and contacts and they look good.  Not sure about the condensers.  1 and 4 share the same condenser so if it was the condenser wouldn't 4 be only half heated too?

Not sure about the pilot jet.  I know 1/2 half turn seems to improve 1/4 throttle position a little, but I am having a hard time tuning these things.  My other set of carbs responds very quickly to an air screw change these seem to not do much of anything.  I can turn cylinder 1 air sdrew all the way in or out and it doesn't make too much of a difference to idle.

I will try switching plugs and see if that helps things. 

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 06:38:34 PM »
I have check the timing and contacts and they look good.  Not sure about the condensers.  1 and 4 share the same condenser so if it was the condenser wouldn't 4 be only half heated too?
Yes, given the two cylinders were at the exact same efficiency level.

Do check the spark leads carefully for cracks where spark can leak to frame/engine instead of making the journey to the spark gap.

Got a darkened garage to look for arcs where they shouldn't be?  Dirty spark leads can leak. Are they clean?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 06:43:23 PM »
A bad spark lead may be at fault.  I will try to start it in a dark garage to see if I can find arching.  Also, since this is a wasted spark system can't I just switch 1 and 4 and the problem will move to 4 correct?

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2011, 06:46:17 PM »
Just tried to start it up in the dark and there is no noticeable arching.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 06:51:07 PM »
Just tried to start it up in the dark and there is no noticeable arching.
Good news and bad news.
Kinda leaves spark plugs and carbs, (if the valves are working properly and adjusted).

Or, might you have an intake leak?

...Just listing possibilities for you to eliminate.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 07:22:54 PM »
I haven't checked the valves at all.  I will check for a leak w WD 40 when I get a chance.  I think I need to do an oil change first as I suspect gas in oil with carb overflow out top.  Thanks for the help!

Offline bluesmoke69

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 09:26:29 PM »
Have the same problem on my 1976 CB750F. Talked to Hondaman, did all tune up, adjusted the valves and cleaned carbs. He said to replace the condenser  and coil. I tried a new condenser  first it help a little. The #1 is getting hotter, but not right have not had time to replace the coil yet hope this helps and good luck!!

Offline CoachDoc

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 10:58:24 PM »
I had a similar problem (except invoving 2,3) when trying to waken my 550 from a longgggg sleep. Finally went away when I bought new 5 ohm Dyna coils. By then I had already replaced the plugs, connectors, plug wires, condensers and points. Carbs were/are good. Runs great now. good luck.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 05:12:42 AM »
Thanks I will switch the coils if I have to got some thing to check valves, plug, coils, condensers, points.  Think this will be my plan of attack.  Thanks!

Offline steam-powered man

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 07:08:23 AM »
if it were me, i'd suspect the pilot jet/idle circuit.  you are fortunate in that the jet is easily accessible (#1 carb with clip-release of the float bowl).  i'd yank the pilot jet first and have a look, quick and easy. 
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Offline boojiking

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2011, 12:40:24 PM »
 The carb for # 1 cylinder is probably not working the same thing happened to my 400F. Emulsion tube was blocked cleaned it up and now the #1 cylinder is same temperature as the other three.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2011, 01:21:24 PM »
if it were me, i'd suspect the pilot jet/idle circuit.  you are fortunate in that the jet is easily accessible (#1 carb with clip-release of the float bowl).  i'd yank the pilot jet first and have a look, quick and easy. 
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2011, 05:23:19 PM »
Being a good tech I took all the suggestions and tried them one at a time Not!  All at once is so much more fun.

#1 valve opening on intake was way off exhaust not bad .
Switched Points, and condenser for one off a running bike.
Switched coils on 1,4.
Checked pilot jet came back good.
Fixed Leaky petcock too 2 tires to get this one right.

After all that is started to warm, but couldn't atomize spit like the 3 others. 

So I fiddled with carb 1 idle screw and still nothing.  Then it just kicked on!

Not sure what's its issue was, but I am still not happy with the level of tune.  All 4 run and fire without choke, but the air screw adjustment is not bumping RPMs at all.  I know my throttle cable is on the tight side could this be messing up the tunablity of the air screw by bringing in the main circuit?

Thanks for all the help!

Offline Martin Thomassen

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2013, 03:30:37 AM »
Hi

I know this is an older topic, but I will try and revive it again  :)
Did you (topic starter) ever find the source of your problem? I´m in the exact same situation - the temperature of cylinder 1 is a lot lower than that of the rest of the cylinders, and the adjustment of the a/f screw on this cylinder also doesn´t seem to work...  :(

Jay Ace

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 07:12:05 AM »
I've had something like that happen where #1 remained cold.
Only thing I did was remove the bowl from #1 and put it back on and that solved the problem.
Why that is, I have no clue.

AJK

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Re: 73 CB750 #1 Cyclinder not heating up like others
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2013, 03:12:01 AM »
Just some things i'd check (along with the already good suggestions).

- I know this has been mentioned but arcing plug caps (40 yr old ones) seems to be a common problem. I had #2 only staying cold and it was by only checking it at night that i could tell that the cap was gone (external arcing). I temporarily cleaned the plug cap & wrapped it with electrical tape (with several layers) and it stopped arcing and the cylinder was firing properly again. This was a temporary fix so i could move onto other things. I've sinced replaced them with new caps and that completely solved that.
  If that spark plug is coming out wet, then you are getting fuel which is a good sign (but that doesn't gaurantee the idle circuit is working correctly so that would still need to be checked as 'steam-powered man' suggested). As already mentioned replace that plug & check for excessive carbon/sootyness (or other uncleaniness which could be deep down in the plug!) as this could be causing misfiring & keeping the cylinder cold due to shorting within the plug instead of sparking at the gap. If replacing or cleaning the plug still doesn't fix it, check your leads for continuity/discontinuity.
  When checking leads, you can do a 'lead' to 'lead' check. Since you know that it is only one cylinder thats getting cold (& not two cylinders that are shared 1.4 or 2.3), this tells you that your coil is fine, but doesn't rule out a problem with one of the leads. So, unscrew the plug caps so they are removed and no longer part of the equation, and check the lead-to-lead resistance with a multimeter by inserting each multimeter probe into the end of each lead. If both leads are ok, you will be effectively reading the resistance of the secondary winding of the coil (see pic) which should be around 14K ohms. Here i'm refering to checking between points 'A' and 'B' on the picture. If you want to test between cap-to-cap (by not unscrewing them), then you should get around (10K + 10K + 14K) = 34K ohms reading. This is between points 'C' and 'D' on the picture. So this is a end-to-end test for the coil & leads/caps in question. The resistance values i've mentioned assumes stock coils & stock plug caps, not after market ones.

- Other things carb related (already mentioned). Check that the float levels are set correctly and that the needle and seat is also operating correctly. If you have a chance to have the carbs on the bench, you can test by blowing through the fuel tube that the needle and seat is operating like a ON/OFF switch upon contact as the float is moved up and down, and whilst blocking the other carb needle and seat. You can also do this on the the bike, by removing the shared fuel line (as it comes from the tank and runs to the respective "T" peice of the two carb set). Remove the relevant fuel line from the petcock, and remove the 2 fuel bowls shared by the line you just took off. I.e. Either bowls for (#1 & #2) carbs or bowls for (#3 & #4) carbs. Lets say #2 is staying cold, then with one hand hold #1 fuel float upwards to block it off, & simultaneously blow through the hose to see if #2 needle & seat hisses air when you let it rest down, & that it also blocks the air when you hold it up. The hissing should be ON/OFF and also should actuate at the point of correct float height, so you can measure that too (on the bike). Petrol tastes great don't it ;) NOT. Alright, cup your hand over the fuel line and blow into your hand (ahh you dirty minds).
   Before doing the above, you can first try gently & firmly tapping the fuel bowl with the handle of a large screwdriver and see if it comes to life first before taking things off. I.e. in an attempt to unstick things in that carb.

- Make sure you have ample fuel in the tank (& the screen is clear in the petcock). More fuel in tank equals more pressure & gets fuel in the lines & to the carbs quicker. If everything is clean in the fuel tap/petcock/screen and fuel lines, then even a low fuel level will work fine, just might take a bit longer to fill the bowls.

- Check the routing of the fuel lines. Make sure they are like a "U" between the fuel tap and the T peices on the carbs.

- If you suspect that you are not getting fuel, another trick is to remove the airbox, then rev up the motor to get it breathing, then very quickly (& in one motion), close the throttle and cup your hand over the carb opening for the suspect carb (completely starving it for air), then crack the throttle open again to give it a few revs. This has the effect of pulling any debris from the orifices of the carbs (I.e. jets, etc) and sucking that through under higher vacuum (since your've now cut off the air). If its only a minor obstruction, then this might solve your problem and clean some carb issues up on the cheap. If you have a serious obstruction, then only a carb clean will do. I used to do this on cars all the time with success.