Topic: Clutch is RIDICULOUSLY difficult to pull after replacing, dragging?

[NastyNip]

Hey there. So I have a 1978 CB550K, and here's the deal:

Clutch was slipping, so I pulled the clutch cover and replaced the springs and friction discs, and the clutch cable with a new Motionpro while I was at it. (--Just incase anyone asks, I routed the cable the same way it was before (and was working great) and because it is a new cable, I can safely eliminate it as a factor.)

I adjusted the nut (counter clockwise) on the case so that the dots line up, which actually has it maxed out (can't go any further) which is unusual.

I adjusted the cable on bottom and top, and started her up: The clutch is VERY difficult to pull, and is apparently dragging because it creeps hard in 1st with the clutch squeezed and cannot shift out of 1st, or into neutral. I've tried messing around with the adjuster on the case, to no avail. What's the deal?

• Is it possible to tighten down the 4 hex bolts in the clutch pack too much? I hand tightened them because I've snapped my fair share of bolts before, but maybe this was too much? That's my main hypothesis.
• I used fresh semi-synthetic oil, so I don't think thats the issue
• Also soaked the plates in it
• Lubed all movement points.

Any insight would be appreciated!

[dave500]

the four bolts cant be over tensioned and make it hard to pull,what springs did you use?some heavy duty ones will make it hard to pull,i never adjust to that dot mark,it speaks with forked tongue,back the centre adjuster out a little to get full release,ignore those dots,try adjusting the cable to get more release?

[NastyNip]

Thanks for the response Dave!

the four bolts cant be over tensioned and make it hard to pull,what springs did you use?

I did use EBC springs which are 10% heavier (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WJBS78/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) but theres no way that they're THIS heavy. I almost have to use two hands, haha.

back the centre adjuster out a little to get full release

you mean the adjuster on the case? sorry for my ignorance, but wouldn't that just adjust the clutch so the arm has further to travel before disengagement?

try adjusting the cable to get more release

I've almost maxed out the adjusters on both ends, but the difficulty to pull is astounding. I don't know what the deal is, and even with the clutch pulled in, it's impossible to change gears. This is indicative of the clutch pack not expanding (disengaging), correct?

[dave500]

on the case screw counter clockwise will give more release,back the cable right off at both ends,then holding thumb pressure on the release arm upwards adjust the case screw to about the dot,it shouldnt be fully wound out or in at this point,then adjust the cable to remove all slack evenly so you have about the same amount of adjustment left at both ends,try it then adjust the cable as needed,if the clutch is heavy to pull its the springs,use honda ones.

[NastyNip]

So as it is currently, the case screw is maxed out counter clockwise (cant go any further). This barely gets it to the dots lining up when the lever is under thumb pressure (which is definitely unusual). What does that indicate?

[dave500]

the little push rod still has its ball ends?the clutch end float isnt excessive?

[Dave Voss]

Did you thoroughly lube the clutch cable?  Some new cables have little or no lube inside, creating a lot of friction once connected and under load.

[Tews19]

Try the original springs... I had a 750 that had stiff springs. . I put the original springs back in.. Problem solved.

[NastyNip]

the little push rod still has its ball ends?

Yep, I always check that little guy (and also check to make sure I remember to put it back haha  )

the clutch end float isnt excessive?

Hmm not quite sure what this means?

Did you thoroughly lube the clutch cable?

Yep, generously lubed the cable beforehand

Try the original springs... I had a 750 that had stiff springs. . I put the original springs back in.. Problem solved.

I am thinking that this is my only real option left I guess, but theres no way that these spring are responsible for this much resistance though. It's really, really difficult to pull the clutch, and even when it's fully pulled the clutch is still engaged. When before you replaced your springs, how hard was the clutch to pull? I'm talking about like 'almost having to use two hands to pull'  hard, and I work out haha.

What's a good place for some stock springs I guess? Am I correct in thinking that it must be something else, because with the case adjuster maxed out (in addition to the cable adjusters), the clutch still doesnt fully disengage?

Thanks for all the great responses thus far. 

[Tews19]

The stiffer springs I had mad it almost impossible to pull the clutch lever in...... I even brought the bike to a well known member and he had the same issue... He suggested we put in old springs after taking it apart several times..... Once we swapped we were good to go..

[dave500]

check the little ramp/cam action behind the release lever inside the case is installed correctly.

[Patrick]

I am thinking that when you replaced the friction disks, you replaced the pressure plate incorrectly. You can put the pressure plate in 90 or 270 degrees off and you get those symptoms., First, the spring bolts get too tight too quick. Second, the clutch lever pulls really hard. Your clutch probably also is not working right. Pull the clutch again and make sure the teeth in the bottom of the pressure plate engage correctly before you tighten the spring bolts.

Patrick

[dave500]

you cant align the pressure plate wrongly on these,you can get the stack of steels and frictions wrong if you want though,if the baskets fingers were deeply worn youd see it aswell.

[NastyNip]

I am thinking that when you replaced the friction disks, you replaced the pressure plate incorrectly. You can put the pressure plate in 90 or 270 degrees off and you get those symptoms., First, the spring bolts get too tight too quick. Second, the clutch lever pulls really hard. Your clutch probably also is not working right. Pull the clutch again and make sure the teeth in the bottom of the pressure plate engage correctly before you tighten the spring bolts.

Patrick

This is good info to hear, thanks patrick.

So just to be clear, how exactly do I make sure that I'm installing the pressure plate correctly? Is there any indicator which is the correct position?

[dave500]

you cant install it incorrectly as being 90/180 or 270 wrong or out!its not indexed.

[NastyNip]

Ah gotcha, I'm glad I'm not completely crazy yet 

The cam and lifter in the case were working fine when I pulled the cover. The only thing that I noticed was that the lifter has a lot of wiggle and play in it, and sometimes can work itself in ways that makes the cam hard to actuate it... There's nothing really holding it in place otherwise though.

[dave500]

see that circlip in the centre there?rock your basket in and out,thats end float,if its over point five mm it needs shimming,pull your pack apart and reinstall it,pay attention to the order of the discs,drop a fibre friction in first followed by a steel and so on,the steels are stamped out and leave a sharp edge one side,its good practise to orient these the same way,either up or down,be sure all the lugs slot in,you dont need to torque the four bolts unless you want to snap a threaded lug off,just nip them down plus a little.

[NastyNip]

Thanks, I guess I'm gonna have to pull the cover again regardless.  I'll double check the plates.

I just now took her around the block a couple times, and I guess what I'm most confused about, is the fact that the clutch is acting like it's dragging (it's impossible to shift up from 1st, or into N even with the clutch fully pulled in), which would lead me to believe the case adjuster needs to be adjusted, however it's fully maxed out to the counter-clockwise.

Even if the springs were  too strong, wouldn't that just account for the difficulty in pulling the clutch, but not for the fact that the clutch never fully disengages?

It's almost like the plates are sticking or something?

Regardless, I guess I'm just going to pull the pack again. 

[dave500]

something aint squared up internally?did you operate the lever in the case when it was off the engine?if so the cam action actuator will have to be reset,if the pack aint correct itll slip,but because you cant de clutch im thinking the actuator?bring it over here with a coupla beers,ill fix it for you.

[NastyNip]

Haha, I'll attach some life preservers and a 6-pack to her and float it across the pacific at ya!

I'm gonna dig into it tomorrow, and I'll report back.

[brewsky]

One too many discs, or wrong thickness discs can cause the same problem.
There is an extra thicker cushion steel plate in the late models and I think the steels are different thickness as well.

[NastyNip]

I'm 99.9% certain I had the correct order and number. I used this diagram (http://www.partzilla.com/images/diagrams/honda/134043/ILLUST/E1340/4308.png)

Is the 'thicker cushion steel plate' #6 in the above diagram?

I used the steels from before (which worked fine) as well as these friction plates (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230844891331?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) which should all be within spec.

[brewsky]

It would be #7 in the diagram.
Check the thickness of the new plates vs the old.

[NastyNip]

errr yeah, I meant #7. haha.

That diagram is labeled weird.

[dave500]

thrust bush and washer #2 and #14 are installed correctly?