Topic: Toustic's CB550F - A Swiss' first build

[Stev-o]

You have "a guy" in L.A.?!  You must be from Cali.....

Swiss, born & raised.

Yeah. Who says "Cali" anyway?

I do.  It's short for California. 

[Toustic]

I do refer to is as Cali having lived there 4 years, along with SoCal and NorCal... Let's call it Geolocalized influence.

So, Today I mostly shopped for some tools and other things I needed in order to handle the engine pull and start of disassembly. I did drop off most of it at the shop, and couldn't resist getting her ready to pull the engine out with my friend tomorrow. So I took off the headers, along with the carburators.




Headers do look a little rough... I'm still unsure about what I'm trying to do with it.. I've been reading a lot about it and I'm still unsure as to how efficient Heatwrap can be for silencing purposes, as I'm worried the MAC (even with stock baffle in) will get me in trouble. If it doesn't do much for it, I still think it can make a bike look real mean, especially black on black.

Anways

I ran into something odd when I pulled out the MAC 4-1 headers... It's probably not odd toy ou guys, but it sure is to me.
Let the record show that I wasn't forceful when I pulled them.



I couldn't take the smell of the fork springs, so I through them on the window ledge and peppered Baking Soda all over it.

@Maurice - Here are the pictures for ref of my tires. In case it's hard to see on your end (should you life depend on opening this picture under direct sunlight- It's 120/90-18-65H for the rear, and 100/90-19-57H for the front





It doesn't look like it needs to be taken apart, and looks like it was done recently. However, the guy who sold it to me apparently did a last minute buffing on the side cover and spray painted the crank case with engine paint while still on the frame (trying to bump up the value). There are traces of paint on the tubing, and the engine mounts.. (even the bolts were left on for paint).

Anyways,

Tomorrow will be another day at the shop, and I'm stoked to face a tough challenge (besides paying income taxes soon).

Goodnight

[Stev-o]

So, what are your options with the pipe?  Personally, I would have it ceramic coated as I dont like the look of wrapped pipes.  A couple coats of VHT paint would be good too. 
Or, is a new pipe in the budget?

And just want to throw this out there:  I'm willing to help obtain/ship parts to you that may not be available there if your guy in LA cannot.

[Toustic]

So, what are your options with the pipe?  Personally, I would have it ceramic coated as I dont like the look of wrapped pipes.  A couple coats of VHT paint would be good too. 
Or, is a new pipe in the budget?

And just want to throw this out there:  I'm willing to help obtain/ship parts to you that may not be available there if your guy in LA cannot.

THAT is a fine offer my friend, which I'd be glad to have use for. For the exhaust, I'm not sure yet. I do like the high clearance of this pipe, it fits with center stand, fine with relocated rearsets and doesn't require taking off to attend the oil filter. Dang.. that was a long list of pros.... Yeah, we'll make it work 

Today I pulled the engine out with my friend. But First, little baking soda and plastic cup for the oil drainage.


Thought it looked cool 

Homemade engine stand.. to the millimeter (sorry, metric system here, but you can speak inches with me, I'm a good with those) it sits right around the oilpan. I know it's on the cheap side, but hey, it's all I have.


And finally... I don't know where I'm going with this, yet. I have looked at the glued together foam blocks in order to design a seat, but I wanted to try something different
So Expending foam it is. I am not a big fan of the texture that it is to work with, but since it ultimately gets covered in painter's tape and fiberglass anyway..



The idea way to be able to shape the connecting part between the seat and the tank,
and give the two a continuos line, and didn't know how I could get to attain that with the blocks.

Steve-o, Should parts that I am really thriving to get and that are not available to my homeland,
I'd love to make a short list, and arrange the details with you. I really appreciate the offer my friend.

And If I may bring the question back, is that bit of aluminium thread that got ripped when pulling the headers gonna be a problem? I'm just trying to make sure I know to handle it with care.

Goodnight All

[MoMo]

Are you referring to the bit of aluminum on #2 header??...Larry

[FrankenFrankenstuff]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126892.0

[Stev-o]

Are you referring to the bit of aluminum on #2 header??...Larry

+1??  it's the exhaust gasket, right?

Make a list of parts I can help with.

[Toustic]

Are you referring to the bit of aluminum on #2 header??...Larry

+1??  it's the exhaust gasket, right?

Make a list of parts I can help with.

Correct, the exhaust gasket. List is happening.

[Stev-o]

Are you referring to the bit of aluminum on #2 header??...Larry

+1??  it's the exhaust gasket, right?

Make a list of parts I can help with.

Correct, the exhaust gasket. List is happening.

Remove the other 3 exhaust gaskets, those are not reusable. 

[Maurice]

Ah thanks for the tire dimensions.

I would keep those headers and just fit a reverse cone in the back. As a matter of fact that's exactly what I'll do I have the same exhaust

Interesting approach on the seat.

BTW why are you pulling the motor out? It looks quite clean from here.

[Stev-o]

I would keep those headers and just fit a reverse cone in the back. As a matter of fact that's exactly what I'll do I have the same

Good idea......look here:


http://www.coneeng.com/motorcycle_components.html

[Toustic]

I'm liking this feedback. I think the reason I want to stay with a fully made and commercialised exhaust is mostly for the registration process, as it makes it easier for my friend from Honda's dealership to BS about this "Honda approved" exhaust installed, since the OEMs are impossible to find or too expensive. Once The bike is officially Swiss, I can always have a little more fun and get creative. I would love a pair of 2-2 short peashooters on this thing, but for now, I gotta stay on track.

@Stev-o - As soon as I get to do custom, those are the guys for sure. I'm trying to order a set of exhaust gaskets, copper looks like the way to go, is that right? Those good?http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-exhaust-parts-muffler-exhaust-gasket-kit-16-5976-4.html Thanks man

@Maurice - I rode the bike in LA, and wasn't pleased with the way it felt, it couldn't idle properly (with rebuilt carburetors by my guy), and the compression felt off. Doubts confirmed when I noticed that there was paint on the frame, I figured if someone doesn't even have the care to at least tape the tubes and cover parts when repainting an engine with a spray can for resale value, he probably didn't care much for making sure the bike was healthy in the first place.. That's my point of view at least...

"The difference between those who own a ride, and those who own a motorcycle"


I have a couple of questions guys ...or maybe 5

- What is the best way to handle the gunk to be found on most parts and engine parts? (I'm ready with my toothbrush if need to be)
- Is there anything I have to be very mindful of when taking apart (very slowly) the engine?
- Based you guys' experience, what are the parts that most commonly need replacing once it's tear down, and those that are always worth replacing when given the chance? (Hope that was somewhat clear)

And finally,
Planning on ordering a battery that fits in the hump of the seat - laid on it side (using the factory bracket), I was looking at antigravity batteries, and was wondering what the minimum amp requirement was to run the bike with standard lights, and probably running points, and DCC Rectifier to play it safe. I was looking at the tiny - 4.25"x2.25"x3.75"with 9.7amp/hr and wondering if it was a good pick. Sorry in advance, I might be a pain with parts as I have to be careful with my orders - International orders don't come cheap.

THanks a lot
Sebastien   .. Yes that is my name, most people call me Seb - Cheers to knowing your neighbour

[Maurice]

Gunk: kerosene, or diesel (might be easier for you to find in Switzerland) and elbow grease. Toothbrush is good, careful where you aim the spray from diesel will smell nasty for a while.

I think you can get away with about 1.0Ah, you can even carry a spare somewhere. That's assuming you're not using the starter, right? These batteries can be very small.

I have one of those small 5Ah and it was good for first start after I'd say a good 15 years of sitting in the northeast. Read lots of kicking

BTW I've got too many copper exhaust gaskets left over (ordered 10 at some point, then 4 came with the gasket kit...), if you want I can mail you a set, it'll be a while (hopefully) before I need all of those.

[Stev-o]

Yes, copper exhaust "crush" gaskets are the way to go, take Maurice up on his genous offer. His cleaning advice is good.
I use Gunk Engine cleaner, doubt you can get it there.

Your motor was running good, right? If yes, no need to dig deep into it. These have known to go 100K miles w/o rebuild.
You'll prolly need an engine gasket set if the covers are coming off for clean, paint or polish.

Are you familiar with DSS? Good source for stock parts.

http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/

[rb550four]

Just got to this thread , what I got so far is the bike didn't run well  (sounds like carb clean and sync to me ), it's a little oily for some reason and needs cleaning ( are the O rings on the inside of the top of the jugs blown? where's the oil coming from?) , The PO did a crappy spray can job that requires improvement, and you have to change your exhaust pipes so crush gaskets are on the way. and you are looking for suggestions for a degreaser. Have I a good grasp of the situation here?
  I'm sorry guys , i missed the reason for tearing down the engine  (like we need a reason right?)
How far is this engine to be torn down?
Thought I might throw in my 2 cents Toustic, even though you are in good hands here.
  I like gunk engine cleaner for an initial clean up on filthy bikes before I work on them. Good in the summer when you can spray it off with a hose, not the choice product if you are  in cold climate and working outdoors right now.... When that happens I use mineral spirits, turpentine ,or as Maurice said kerosene . cuts the grease quick (will stain your patio floor if not covered).
  If you must take apart a running motor , Take note of the condition of your cam chain before you take it out... Is it adjusted to the max , is it slack? you'll know when you play with it, but it should still be together when you play with it.
  If your plan is to go all in and split the cases, when you have your oil pan out , still in the frame(don't turn your engine upside down if you have no plans of going all in) Take a look at the condition of your primary chain, you'll be looking for side to side slack and stretched length. Now is the time to check even if you weren't planning on all in, at least you will have an idea of it's condition, if it in need of replacement..... you're all in,  not so bad, you can clean everything, check the condition of the gears bearings and shifting forks and change out those lower gaskets and seals that might be throwing that oil, and change out that old timing chain.  Well, That's what I do anyways. That and replace the clutch plates and clean everything there too.
 If it's only a top end tear down do all of the above mentioned checking anyways and a nice valve lap , new seals for the valves will come in a complete gasket set , the shifter seals,Kick start seals, crank shaft seals , final drive seal, and shaft seals, or those little pucks that go in the head just above the head bolts, yeah , none of those items  come in a
complete gasket set, so be gentle both taking out and going in.
  I didn't see anything about a compression check here , did I miss it? What is  suspect  in this engine? besides the dirty carbs. Didn't see anything about the spark plug condition , or points or condensers either . Why is this engine being taken down?  Just wondering, if you tell me it is neurotic instinct and you have to , even  this I can understand, but I haven't found any reason for it yet. Can someone fill me in please.
  If I am reading this wrong and the plan is to take covers off for a shinning, my apologies. In that case be sure to have an impact driver and gaskets. I found that a Honda clutch cover gasket is $30, the entire Vesurah kit  around $100.
  I like your project  and especially the outdoor garage, shows grit,and determination.
Okay that might have been 20 cents.

[calj737]

Battery recommendations for seat hump: Shorai or other Li-ion. Mine is about the size of 3 iPhones and weighs less 0.6 pounds, but has 210 CCA and 13 A/hr. Barely larger than an anti-gravity  and twice as powerful. Can be installed in any orientation and vibration proof.

[Toustic]

Holy crap that was a lot of helpful stuff... I'm still trying to process it.

Truth be told, although initially confident, I'm now scared of any form of teardown.

First and foremost, I need to clarify a few points about my current process, as well as my intentions.

The reason why I want to do a complete tear down, clean up, and rebuild, is based on few thoughts.
I bought the bike from a guy who claimed it to be running (yes, the bike ran at some point, just too long ago).

The guy who sold it to me wasn't the title's holder, and said he was selling it for his uncle. If my thinking process is right, the uncle just gave the bike to his nephew to ride, but the kid instead made a few touchups, and decided to make some profit. If the kid ever used the bike consistantly the title would have been under his name, and the bike would have had a plate. In addition, the bike's latest registration dated from 2008.

The bike had a 77'000+ miles read on the odo that came with the bike, and clearly this dude hasn't touched it, and I don't take a bet on the unknown out of state P.O. of an uncle. This bike will most likely be a daily ride for me. Means I need to know what it is that's responsible for my life on a daily basis.
I don't claim that engine failure will kill me, but If I want to trust my bike with my life, I need to know here inside and out (YES RB550FOUR, that was one is for you - I think it's neurotic urge but I'm a stubborn dude  ).

I did ride the bike, because my friend in LA managed to rebuild the carbs and hoped it would be enough for me to have a joyride around town. I don't have the numbers from the compression test he performed in his shop, but he told me they were ok but not great. I had the bike for a day, and did enjoy the heck out of it all over the place. I wasn't pleased with the feel. I do know how those bikes are supposed to run, but the bike was running very hot, oil was leaking all over the engine, and there was a heavy rattle sound at idle. Yes, the bike ran... and I could probably ride it everyday like that. But I'd never push it hard, I'd never really make as good as it can be, and that would just defeat the whole purpose.

Lastly, I admit that I did look at performance parts for the CB550, and have been very curious about the Dynoman Stage 1... I want her to look mean and ride mean, can't help myself 

Truth be told, I want to learn as I go, I think I'm a quick learner, and although all this is very new to me, I trust this forum to have all the answers to my current and future questions. You're a reinsuring bunch, believe you that.

Big Thanks to rb550four for this thorough response. I will take your 5/20 cents on my thread any day of the week. and I am very much looking forward to print this all out for my next stop by the shop.

@Stev-o - I'm putting out an order for new seals and all parts needing replacement. This is gonna be grand given the proximity, thanks a lot my friend..
@Maurice - If I get the bike to run well, I want to kickstart her any chance I get haha, thanks for clarifying the amp question my man.
@calj737 - Thanks for the tip, I actually havd never heard of Shorai (and feel like I should have), I only knew about ballistic and Antigravity to be fine in any position. Thanks a lot. Would you be able to tell me the model's reference of the one you bought?

Thanks again guys, much appreciate your time and patience.

[calj737]

LFX14A2-B12. (This is the small-framed unit, A2). Cost about $150US. Equivalent AGM was $100. For the extra $60, I'll take the saved weight and advantages over traditional heavy batteries. Anti-gravity batteries are very nice too, but hard to find a unit that has equal CCA and Amp/hr power.

[Toustic]

Thanks a lot for the battery Ref.

I've been looking around at what's legal exhaust wise, and I think I've found the compromise. British made road legal CB550F exhaust.
Throaty and clean looking if I may say.
Anyone familiar with Predator?

http://predatormotorsport.co.uk/images/P/cb500%20550f.jpg

Thanks.

[rb550four]

I really like a chrome exhaust even though it requires constant cleaning. Only saw the side view, does the spacing allow for an oil filter change without removing the pipes?

[Stev-o]

+1 like chrome exhaust too, that one looks very low.  And have not heard of it.

Have you heard of Motad?

[Toustic]

I really like a chrome exhaust even though it requires constant cleaning. Only saw the side view, does the spacing allow for an oil filter change without removing the pipes?

THat's the beatuy of it...

- Manufactured in 300 Series Polished Stainless Steel
- Made to take original exhaust port clamps for that original look
- All other fittings are included (only Extras needed are x4 exhaust port gaskets and tin of assembly paste.
- Retains all stands
- Retains access to oil filter and oil drain bolt.
- No Re-jetting
- Road Legal Marked pre 1977
- Manufacturers 10 Year Warranty

http://predatormotorsport.co.uk/CB500-F1-and-F2-FOUR-HONDA-All-Models-4-1-Exhaust-System-Road-legal/

@Stev-o - I have looked at the motad, but find the silencer to be a bit long. I really like the pros on this on one, as well as the peashooter sound... It's supposed to be quiet at idle, and sound great in high-revs, but can't find a single Four fitted with it, it's all Bonnevilles and Thruxtons...

It sits low but looks like the lowest part of the exhaust is dead center underneath the frame and tight against the rear hub, which makes me think clearance is not altered... then again, it's an assumption.

I'm mostly messing around, waiting for the gasket set and other parts to make it through the mail (waiting for my next paycheck is a big part of this stalling phase as well).

[Toustic]

Hi Guys...
Since My dad is around these days, I figured it was a good opportunity to take the top end apart together (yes, a big part of this project is to spend some time with my dad, as my schedule and his doesn't allow it much the rest of the year).

So, here is what I would like to do. I will not comment on the pictures, but instead let you take a look at the state of the top end, and hopefully get a better understanding as to what these findings entail...



(pulled the cam and found these, the black bit was actually obtruding the oil outlet, and the bearing traced a groove on the cam)
















(left darkest all the way through, and almost untouched/clean on the far right, that is not because of the light or picture, it's how it really is)


(My organized mess - the camchain tensioner is cracked on both end, to the point that it's about 0-5mm from going through the whole thickness of the rubber)


(trying to match the angle of the upswept of my seat to match the tank's upswept and lean angle of the frame to give it a more flowing line.. not happy with the edges tho.. gotta buy another can of expending foam so I can add 'body' where need be.

Anyways... In hopes this inspires some of you, Thanks in advance for the feedback.

@RB550FOUR - I hope my intention/reasoning behind the tear down of a running engine is now a bit more clear now!?

Best,
Sebastien

[Stev-o]

The black bit is most likely from the cam chain tensioner.

Also looks like the engine had a broken ring at some point in its life.  Were all rings in place when you disassembled?

Plugs look very rich....

[Toustic]

The black bit is most likely from the cam chain tensioner.

Also looks like the engine had a broken ring at some point in its life.  Were all rings in place when you disassembled?

Plugs look very rich....

Thanks a lot man.

The ball bearing is doozy tho.. what do you think? The tensioner is cracked in all places, and I haven't checked the rings yet, the rods are in the way, so I was thinking about taking out the piston out as one piece, and take a closer look at each one individually. From what I saw, some rings seem to be stretched out too far, as they don't match the diameter of the other... Also, I need to look up how to disassemble the piston haha

It's dumb but I'm actually glad I found some crap in there.. makes me feel better about my intuition to tear it down.

So that ring bit that messed up my piston just puked out of the exhaust? Just wondering if it's worth looking into the bottom end..
I found a way to bead/sand/soda blast and powdercoat in Geneva, thanks to a hookup. So I'm thinking I'd like to rebuild the whole thing and give it a brand new life. Is it unrealistic for me to consider that?