Author Topic: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Rebuild kit from ebay (updatedx2!!)  (Read 5236 times)

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Offline Jimsun

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Hey guys and many thanks to your support

Im planning on buying a carb rebuild kit and im looking for your advise as well as your experience regarding the K&L rebuild kit. Im buying it off ebay. I know i only need one but might as well buy a set as it is cheaper (resell the rest). I have found out that the needle on carb 3 is not as spongy as the others.

http://bit.ly/1l40wHT

Please keep in mind that this is for a 1974 cb 550 full stock 4-4

Heres the story.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133049.0

Quote
Hey guys

New question here. Hopefully the last and hope you guys can chime in so i can finally finish my carbs this weekend :)

Since i took apart everything, I am now confused as to how many number of turns i should pre set each carbs to.

To make things easier,

For the first picture, from dead top/just sitting on the thread, how many number of turns inwards should i preset the screw to?

For the second picture, from dead bottom/screwed all the way in, how many number of turns outwards should i turn the screw?

first picture, from dead top/just sitting on the thread, how many number of turns inwards should i preset the screw to?


second picture, from dead bottom/screwed all the way in, how many number of turns outwards should i turn the screw?



]
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Title: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Mystery spring
 ANSWERED. My post #23 sums it
Quote
Hello folks,

I have a mystery spring that i didn't see when i took apart carb #1. I was scrubbing the carb pieces and all of a sudden it appeared after i was draining the liquid.

The second is this thing-a-ma-jig slider/needle thingy. Is the second cylinder like thingy suppose to be in this shape? my first one wasn't like this at all. In addition, it was harder it pull out that the first and the other carb i've cleaned before.  Pics below.

Mystery spring from carb #1
Carb #2 cylinder slider neddle thing-a-ma-jig


« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 08:10:11 AM by Jimsun »
74 cb550

Offline harisuluv

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Mystery spring
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2013, 12:03:19 PM »
The slide does have a cut away section that faces the airbox side.  That spring is from your mixture screw, perhaps you took the mixture screw out and forgot the spring, then when you turned it upside down to take the slide out it fell out.

Offline Ewan 500K1

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Mystery spring
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2013, 12:10:13 PM »
parts diagram for 500 four carbs attached
jings, crivens, help ma boab

500 four K1 cafe racer build thread at :
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100883.0

Offline Jimsun

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Mystery spring
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2013, 12:17:58 PM »
@haris

Thanks for the speedy response. Are you talking about the flat head that has a screw? Heres another pic with the screw you might be talking about.

Sorry about the lighting. I forgot to edit it and i'm about to step out for a bit.



@ewan

The resolution is too small for me to fully see where it originated from.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 12:20:17 PM by Jimsun »
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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Mystery spring
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2013, 12:43:45 PM »
That spring looks like it might be a mod for a missing jet holder clip.

Your slide looks damaged to me. There shouldn't be a notch opposite the cutout.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550f1-super-sport-550-four-1976-canada_model17110/partslist/E16.html#results

Do you have part# 39 in the above diagram? At least I think it's 39, a bit hard to tell.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 12:48:27 PM by LesterPiglet »
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline Jimsun

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Mystery spring
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2013, 01:33:19 PM »
That spring looks like it might be a mod for a missing jet holder clip.

Your slide looks damaged to me. There shouldn't be a notch opposite the cutout.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550f1-super-sport-550-four-1976-canada_model17110/partslist/E16.html#results

Do you have part# 39 in the above diagram? At least I think it's 39, a bit hard to tell.

Do you mean the clip that holds the jet. The clip that's located below the float right? If that is so, then yes.

74 cb550

Offline Jimsun

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Mystery spring
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2013, 08:26:43 PM »
updating if anyone has any information on what it could be...

thanks again in advance
74 cb550

Offline Jimsun

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 09:26:57 PM »
updated.

I still haven't found the reason location of that spring :(
74 cb550

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 10:12:41 PM »
The smaller spring in the picture is likely the for the ball friction detent on the choke on #1 carb.
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Offline Jimsun

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74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2013, 05:54:34 AM »
The smaller spring in the picture is likely the for the ball friction detent on the choke on #1 carb.

I dont quite understand where this ball friction detent is...

Im looking at this diagram and i cannot muster the location.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 06:02:16 AM by Jimsun »
74 cb550

Offline Bru-tom

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2013, 06:12:55 AM »
ok, let me try explain this... You know your choke on the side of carb #1 by the fuel tap on your tank.... When you operate it, it makes that click... It is in fact the ball bearing that if being pushed into an indent causing it to sort of "lock" into place. that spring is what pushes the ball bearing into the indent.

So its on carb one, opposite side of the choke attached to the butterfly shaft.

Offline Jimsun

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2013, 06:48:12 AM »

ok, let me try explain this... You know your choke on the side of carb #1 by the fuel tap on your tank.... When you operate it, it makes that click... It is in fact the ball bearing that if being pushed into an indent causing it to sort of "lock" into place. that spring is what pushes the ball bearing into the indent.

So its on carb one, opposite side of the choke attached to the butterfly shaft.

Hmm i still cant picture the location but ill check it out tonight.

I'll take a pic of the carb and hopefully someone will chime in if i somehow cant figure it out.

Again, thank you guys for the help
74 cb550

Offline Duanob

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2013, 10:41:20 AM »
I may be wrong but I think this is where the spring is located.
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
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1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2013, 10:59:14 AM »
Just curious: what made you take the carbs apart?
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Offline Jimsun

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74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2013, 11:59:11 AM »
Just curious: what made you take the carbs apart?

PO said carbs needed to be cleaned/rejetted and that carb 3 overflows - gas leaks
So i thought all right since the bike will be stored in my basement over the winter, i might as well do most of the maintenance now so its ready for the coming season. Since i need to remove the whole carb assembly out, i thought that i might as well clean all the carbs. Who knows when it was last cleaned and because there was rusts in the tank, i thought its worth it. All the carbs were pretty dirty - especially the bowls.

Thats why. Do you think i should have not bothered?


I may be wrong but I think this is where the spring is located.

Thanks. Ill take a look tonight.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 12:00:55 PM by Jimsun »
74 cb550

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2013, 12:16:59 PM »
Cleaning and rejetting can all be done by removing the float bowls. All what's needed for maintenance is then accessible. It strikes me that taking apart carbs in all its components like lifters and all is almost epidemic in this forum. Honda deliberately constructed them so one doesn't need to unless there's some sort of damage. I myself have not encountered that damage nor have I read about it in other Honda Four fora.
Maybe you had a good reason for dissassembling your carbs completely but I wouldn't like others to conclude it is a must.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2013, 12:26:51 PM »
Maybe this picture will help to locate where the spring and detent ball are supposed to be located.

I agree that dissassembly to every-part-separate level, is seldom warranted.    The only real exception in my mind is education for the curious.

Curiosity often costs money in replacing what you broke, mangled/omitted during the process.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Jimsun

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2013, 12:51:00 PM »

Cleaning and rejetting can all be done by removing the float bowls. All what's needed for maintenance is then accessible. It strikes me that taking apart carbs in all its components like lifters and all is almost epidemic in this forum. Honda deliberately constructed them so one doesn't need to unless there's some sort of damage. I myself have not encountered that damage nor have I read about it in other Honda Four fora.
Maybe you had a good reason for dissassembling your carbs completely but I wouldn't like others to conclude it is a must.

I didnt know. I guess TT is right. I was too curious.
Maybe this picture will help to locate where the spring and detent ball are supposed to be located.

I agree that dissassembly to every-part-separate level, is seldom warranted.    The only real exception in my mind is education for the curious.

Curiosity often costs money in replacing what you broke, mangled/omitted during the process.

Thanks TT. I guess i wasnt too scared breaking stuff as i have a parts readily available. But now i know that its not necessary to fully disassemble the carb assembly but merely remove the float area.
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Offline Duanob

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2013, 11:00:40 AM »
Replacing the 'T' o-rings is necessary and fuel lines is easier when the carbs are apart from the rack.
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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Offline rb550four

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2013, 02:55:55 PM »
could that little spring come from the #13 assembly , just below the ball bearing?
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2013, 03:30:36 PM »
could that little spring come from the #13 assembly , just below the ball bearing?

Under the shiny brass.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline Duanob

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2013, 03:31:29 PM »
could that little spring come from the #13 assembly , just below the ball bearing?

You mean inside of the slide linkage? I don't think so. Doesn't look familiar to those parts.
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2013, 03:49:09 PM »
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline Jimsun

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns?
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2013, 03:51:47 PM »
Hey guys. I trully appreaciate the time you guys put into reading my posts an others.

TT is right. Its located where he said it's located. I did notice a small metal ball (oddly sized) lying around and thought nothing of it as i have a few circular solder balls around. That ball was actually the ball detent TT was point to that sits above the spring.

Thanks again guys. Problem solved.



Thanks for the effort. It's definitely not that piece. I know that piece and it looks different. I will upload the picture in a second.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 04:10:06 PM by Jimsun »
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Offline Jimsun

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns for these screws (UPDATED)
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2013, 09:12:46 PM »
Bump. I hope someone can assist me and finally get this thing done.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns for these screws (UPDATED)
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2013, 11:57:48 PM »
The shop manual is pretty clear that the air screws are turned outward from lightly seated 1 1/2 turn, +/- 3/8 turn, at least for a bike with all stock components.
What were they set at before taking it all apart?

Is there some other problem that you need help with?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 11:59:29 PM by TwoTired »
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Honda550k

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns for these screws (UPDATED)
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2013, 12:03:46 AM »
Hey jimsun

Picture number 2 are what I believe are air mixture screws. The stock setting for those from a gently closed position is 1 1/2 turns out +- 3/8 . For you to know if it is a plus or minus from the 1 1/2 turn, you'd have to get it running again. Do the 3 k tune up and sync the carbs with the 1 1/2 turn setting. Then play with the 3/8 you have for adjustment and see which position idles your bike the best at 1000 rpm and throttle feel. All trial and error.

Note: the more you turn them out the more air is in the mix which will make it leaner. Counter is + clockwise is -.

Resource:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=8986.0

Reply number 2

Thanks to TT

* Someone chime in if I'm wrong. I'm trying to relate this with my 78 550. I have air screws but those are IMS which only deals with idle.

Offline dave500

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns for these screws (UPDATED)
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2013, 01:16:32 AM »
dont worry about the turn count its how it runs,unlike most automobile carbs these ones idle mixture adds to the entire mixture even into the high rpms,it doesnt just affect the idle!car type carbs idle circuits shut down once the rpm picks up,car type carbs have more circuits than these type one carbs,our carbs dont have a power/economy circuit or accelerator pump,tune and set up these carbs once the engine is fully hot(and with perfect ignition settings) and how it behaves when dead cold so be it,learn to feather the throttle or use that screw underneath the throttle if you have it to hold a fast cold idle,the book specs of so many turns out is a ball park,a bit like bench sync,you may find you need more or less turns by some degree more than the listed specs,dont let that worry you so long as the engine is running as you want,for example my 550 engine with 38/100 jets and 4-1 pipe and stock induction air box has over two turns out on the solid type idle screws,itll pull away from 2500 in top gear ok.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 01:18:57 AM by dave500 »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns for these screws (UPDATED)
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2013, 01:26:14 AM »
Quote
,unlike most automobile carbs these ones idle mixture adds to the entire mixture even into the high rpms,it doesnt just affect the idle!
That's my experience too (stock CB500).
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Offline dave500

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns for these screws (UPDATED)
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2013, 02:24:58 AM »
if i could get an early rochester quadrajet onto one of these engines easy i would!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. # of turns for these screws (UPDATED)
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2013, 10:36:47 AM »
The carb's pilot circuits do not have throttle linked regulation, per se.  They deliver mixture according to the carb throat pressure present at the exit ports.   As long as the engine is providing suction, they will deliver at a rate commensurate with that suction, at any throttle selection.

However, the volume produced by the pilot circuit is the minimum requirements + some for the engine to operate at idle with little to no power produced from the engine.

Consider it like the allowance you got as a kid compared to the enormous salaries you now get as an adult.  It wouldn't pay the bills during high demand expenses.  But, it might pay for a movie visit, if you still got the same allowance today while you are pulling that full financial load.

The vacuum level present in the carb duct is highly affected by the duct work parameters both preceding and downstream from the jet exit port location.  This is why a partially clogged filter, other upstream restriction, or a vacuum leak downstream the ports have such an effect on mixture delivery.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Jimsun

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Updated regarding a cb550 carb rebuild kit.

Im asking for your opinion,advise, and experience. I need it for 1 needle,main and slow jet. Im planning to resell the rest to even up ftom the purchase.

http://bit.ly/1l40wHT
74 cb550

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Rebuild kit from ebay (updatedx2!!)
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2014, 12:01:04 PM »
Those are K&L aftermarket kits stated to fit the 74 model carbs.  They will fit and -should- work.  But, whether the part dimensions are really to the same factory dimension and tolerance as factory parts is dependent on the manufacturers diligence and QA checks made to the part.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline flybox1

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Re: 74 cb 550.... Another carb question.. Rebuild kit from ebay (updatedx2!!)
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2014, 12:15:54 PM »
might be a good idea making the same change in all carbs, not just in the one needing attention.
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