Topic: starter switch - yellow wire broke

[nccb]

So, I was trying to attach the damn throttle back to my controls and broke the yellow wire from the starter button.  

Is there a way that I can fix this?  Like a jackass I didn't take the tank off to disconnect the pull cable from the carbs and couldn't get it to fit back into its housing on the throttle.  5 #$%*ing minutes of time and instead twisted the damn wiring in the switch till it broke

[nccb]

Ok so I sprayed some cleaner in there and I can see where it broke. Do you guys think it could be soldered back?

[MoMo]

It can be done, takes more than a bit of patience.  I've done it with my gnarly, stubbly, arthritic fingers...Larry

[nccb]

Thanks for the reply MoMo.  Do you think it could be soldered directly to the metal where the broken pieces of wire are or would I have to somehow take that out and solder under it?  I've never soldered anything before.

[TwoTired]

Anything can be fixed with skill and money.

You will have to take the switch out of the housing to see if you can gain access to the solder terminals.
The yellow wire is now shorter than the other.  To keep the strain on them equal you'll need to shorten the other one as well.

I don't recommend a butt splice of the remaining pieces of the yellow wire.  Strip back and solder good core wire to the switch terminals.

You will, of course, have less freedom of movement with the shorter wires, unless you can slide more through the harness.

Just saw your previous replay.  Best to practice soldering on some wires before you tackle the actual repair.  The solder should look smooth and shiny when done correctly.   Resin core flux 60/40 solder.  Don't use acid core flux.  A 25 - 35 Watt iron should be safe.  But, the longer you heat the more apt the insulation will be to melt.

Soldering is not hard, but it is a skill.

[Nic]

If you've never soldered before I wouldn't give the joint much hope of longevity. You should be able to pull the yellow/red wire through the harness and not have to #$%* with the green/red but I'd get someone who is good at soldering to do the job.

[nccb]

Thats not likely to happen as I don't know anyone who can solder.  I should be able to do this on my own if I practice on some old wiring I have laying around.  I am looking at some solder guns to get at lowes but want your opinions before I buy.  Twotired, you mentioned about a 35 watt gun, if this for a safety reason so it won't heat up to quick or to hot?

I am thinking of one of these, overkill for an unskilled person?:

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=357335-273-WSB25WB&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3402984&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=97541-273-8200PKS&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3135969&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

[TwoTired]

The first link is actually a wood burning kit.  Probably can solder with it, too.  I think I'd get a kit made for electrical device soldering.

I don't recommend the gun type for a beginner.  It adds another level of learning the process regarding how long to hold the trigger to get the proper heat range.  Its kind of like using sledge hammer to tap in small staples or brads.

You'll have enough to deal with using a constant temp tip, and learning to hold it on a metal mass just until the solder begins flowing.  You just don't need more heat than what is needed to make the solder flow, and not so much that the flux burns up.  For soldering the connections in this project, 25-35 Watts will do the job and allow you some time to observe when the solder melts, indicating you have the ideal heat.  A gun will heat up so fast that you will get way past melting temp in a hurry, and if you don't modulate the trigger effectively, the heat will build to make the insulation melt rapidly.

If you spring for a tip regulated temp iron/pencil, it will make your learning curve a bit easier, imo.  Solder (60/40) melt at around 370 F.  If your tip will hold 400- 450 degrees, it will try to hold that temp for the metal mass you are heating.  Then it is a matter of having enough power for the mass being heated.  Large heat sinks will require high power.  But, since the items you are heating are pretty small, 25-35 watts is all that is needed, even for temp controlled irons.

I still have a gun I got while in high school in the sixties.  I haven't used it since the seventies, when I started working on circuit boards.  It was pretty hard not to damage the circuit board when using the gun, due to excessive heat, not to mention wire insulation.  Of course, if you still have asbestos based wire insulation, like we had in the 60s, the gun will be fine.   

[nccb]

Ok, Thanks TwoTired. I'll make sure I get an appropriate 35w iron and Resin Core flux 60/40 solder.  I have wire I'll practice on until I am comfortable moving to the switch.  I have ruined enough just switching the handlebars

[MoMo]

You want a soldering pencil rather than a gun.  You will need to take the switch apart to gain access to the small terminal the wire attaches to.  Be very careful when disassembling as there is a tiny spring that has a tendency to fly away(that is from experience )....Larry

[Mo]

Just some alternatives. I recently installed a momentary switch I picked up from radio shack and installed that. I looped the wire through the switch terminals, grounded the other to the handlebars and then used electric glue to secure the connection. It's a little tight maneuvering around the housing, but the switch fits right in. Mine is a CB500.

[nccb]

You want a soldering pencil rather than a gun.  You will need to take the switch apart to gain access to the small terminal the wire attaches to.  Be very careful when disassembling as there is a tiny spring that has a tendency to fly away(that is from experience )....Larry

noted, but it is highly likely this will still occur

[dave500]

if you get it all cleaned up and drop into an old radio or tv repair place they might do it on the spot for a few bucks?maybe even an auto electrician or alternator/starter repair place?

[ekpent]

Taking it to a Radio Shack or computer/TV repair place would be a good option for them to do but are the wires still routed through the handlebars as in a stock bike ? That could become a hassle if you had to take the bars off etc. As mentioned though be carefl taking the switch apart as there is that spring and also those components get more brittle with age.

[nccb]

Taking it to a Radio Shack or computer/TV repair place would be a good option for them to do but are the wires still routed through the handlebars as in a stock bike ? That could become a hassle if you had to take the bars off etc. As mentioned though be care taking the switch apart as there is that spring and also those components get more brittle with age.

I pulled out the wiring again.  I just went up to lowes and picked up a 25w electric soldering pencil and some rosin core flux.  The wiring was actually pretty flexible and was a lot easier pulling through the new euro bars than the stock.  I'll keep the electronic stores in mind if I feel uncomfortable doing this, didn't even think about them doing this but seems like something I need to learn to do.

[Nic]

if you get it all cleaned up and drop into an old radio or tv repair place they might do it on the spot for a few bucks?maybe even an auto electrician or alternator/starter repair place?

+1 A music shop should have a bloke out back in the repair dept that'll be able to solder as well. There are plenty of options and again I say look for one n get it done right n save the dough on the iron n solder. It's a 2 second job once you take out the screw that holds the little bracket in place but you want it done right.

[MoMo]

DIY is good and you will most likely need soldering skill in the future...Larry

[TwoTired]

If you never wish to solder anything in your lifetime, find someone else to to do the job.  If you think soldering is a skill that may come in handy for the future, well, you just can't learn any younger than now.

I know I've never regretted learning to solder, or braze, or weld (metal and plastic).  It's a pretty good fist step toward learning to join materials.  Always practice on waste materials first, before working on the must-save subject.

Another tip, heat the substrate metals, flux and allow the substrate metal to melt the solder (you can make exceptions after you learn the basics).  It should flow into and around the joint.  Remove heat and don't disturb the joint until the solder as solidified.

The exceptions mentioned above are when soldering to metals surrounded or embedded in plastic.  Gotta be quick not the melt the plastic while reaching solder melt temperature.

[TwoTired]

I found this tutorial on Youtube.  Apart from him calling the iron a "gun", it looks pretty good and properly instructional.

How To Solder - Intro/Joining Stranded Wires - Part 1

[nccb]

Thanks for that video.  I have been watching various videos throughout the night so hopefully with a little practice the switch will be good as new.

[Don R]

ceck your electrical connection as you go. My brother soldered one and it grounded inside the housing. We had to take it back apart and make a smaller joint.

[dave500]

youve got a soldering iron now,itll come in handy for other stuff not just your bike,youll learn to solder in a few minutes with a little practise,joints must be grease and oil free is the main thing then youll have another skill aswell!

[Mo]

I've soldered several time before (strain gauges, wiring, etc). I don't think its a difficult skill to pick up, and since the switch is off the bike, access shouldn't be an issue. If you need and extra button or spring, let me know. I've got a spare set lying around.

[nccb]

Should I do anything with this piece, where the starter button makes contact and where the yellow wire is soldered too?  I am assuming that the metal square with wires sticking out is the old solder. Would this need to be removed or when I solder to it will it melt and assist in the process?

[74750k4]

Last time I was in Radio Shack I nicely asked if I could borrow a meter for a moment, right there at the counter, to check continuity on some cables.

Answer: NO!

Last time I'll go there:)