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Author Topic: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication  (Read 43237 times)

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Offline riverfever

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #450 on: June 22, 2016, 10:28:31 am »
Exactly. Just needs a ball and a wall. Or....a bucket of hard boiled eggs and a bit of time.  :o
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127186.0

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Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #451 on: June 22, 2016, 01:22:46 pm »
I've been substitution my head for the ball, and have an 8" solid concrete wall just off the porch with ample forehead dents. Luke had nothing on me as I've spent 25 years in this jail called Parenthood  ;D
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #452 on: June 22, 2016, 01:50:26 pm »
Exactly. Just needs a ball and a wall. Or....a bucket of hard boiled eggs and a bit of time.  :o



;)
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

Offline RAF122S

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #453 on: January 23, 2017, 12:15:36 pm »
So, in the 6 months since this thread has been touched, anything happening on the bike?
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #454 on: January 23, 2017, 12:39:08 pm »
Awaiting a rear hub. Once that's done, the swingarm geometry can be completed. Then, it's off to a friends to have the main frame tubing remade from TG&P CroMo.

My son is still designing and prototyping a tail light, seat cowl, and a tank. We have been pretty busy with working on our cars, trucks, finishing the garage/shop, helping a buddy with some welding and fabrication, etc. Just life getting in the way of fun it seems.
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*** Currently experiencing life at 60 WTFs per hour ***
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Offline rickmoore24

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #455 on: January 23, 2017, 12:54:17 pm »
Not to bring up old stuff, but I just read the bit about your son dropping your bike and I'm sorry about that but I think you handled it the best way it could have been handled. Well done.  :)
1972 CB750 K2 (Daily Runner)
1972 CB750 K2 (Sold)
1973 CB750 K3 (Hardtail 836cc)
1998 CBR F3 - R.I.P., went down on the 101 in Calabasas, Ca.
1995 EG6

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #456 on: January 23, 2017, 12:57:26 pm »
Heck, where we live, it could have been a whole lot worse. Good lesson to anyone, always wear full protective gear. Even a few miles from home.
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*** Currently experiencing life at 60 WTFs per hour ***
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #457 on: January 23, 2017, 01:29:12 pm »
Awaiting a rear hub. Once that's done, the swingarm geometry can be completed. Then, it's off to a friends to have the main frame tubing remade from TG&P CroMo.

I'm paddling in the same boat with you as to the hub.  What is TG&P?
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #458 on: January 23, 2017, 01:37:03 pm »
Awaiting a rear hub. Once that's done, the swingarm geometry can be completed. Then, it's off to a friends to have the main frame tubing remade from TG&P CroMo.

I'm paddling in the same boat with you as to the hub.  What is TG&P?

Curious how this applies here as well. TG&P is turned, ground and polished and usually reserved for linear shafting where tolerances are very tight and finish needs to be extremely good. Additionally, unless CroMo is stress relieved after the fact, DOM tubing is nearly as strong and much easier to work with, not to mention less expensive.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #459 on: January 23, 2017, 01:38:59 pm »
Turned, Ground and Polished. It's a very high grade of CroMo. It's cold drawn steel, with an exact OD, completely true, and polished to remove any mill scale. Runs about $3.70@ft. For our frame, it looks like less than $100 of material, and I think I know someone who will bend it on their CNC bender for me  :-X I'll just weld it to the stock neck so as to retain the VIN and title, and destroy the old frame hoops completely.

Planning to make only a couple of slight modifications to the stock frame, mostly to tie the engine hoops back to the backbone directly. Straighten and lower the backbone intersection to the neck. And increase the angle of the forward hoop, and spread the down tubes to a more perpendicular orientation as they run down and under the engine.wll certainly be adding bracing, but these small changes should improve rigidity without making the bike look non-stock.

I'll probably also see a decent weight reduction overall, greater strength, and more space. Win, win, win!
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*** Currently experiencing life at 60 WTFs per hour ***
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Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #460 on: January 23, 2017, 01:43:14 pm »
Curious how this applies here as well. TG&P is turned, ground and polished and usually reserved for linear shafting where tolerances are very tight and finish needs to be extremely good. Additionally, unless CroMo is stress relieved after the fact, DOM tubing is nearly as strong and much easier to work with, not to mention less expensive.
Actually, NASCAR frames are TG&P. I happen to have within my circle of friends, a premier NASCAR frame builder. So, good enough for them, good enough for me. And the fit and finish will be exceptionally tight. Not that it needs to be, but it will be.

I have a large fab table with the capacity to jig, clamp and weld this thing fully supported. That won't be an issue. And for the cost difference, a fully custom frame for less than $100 of material? It's a bargain.
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Offline slikwilli420

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #461 on: January 23, 2017, 01:48:24 pm »
What is the plan to have the frame stress relieved afterwards? I'm sure with those connections it won't be an issue but I was curious.

It also begs the question why a custom frame is so expensive. With todays equipment, one should be able to punch out a frame in short order with extreme precision.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #462 on: January 23, 2017, 02:07:14 pm »
I'll be taking my lead from the frame bender.  ;) I'll probably also have some good documentation when I do it so as to share the progress.

As for cost for a custom frame: material is not usually the expense; labor is. Duplicating a frame in hand, even with slight modifications, is a lot easier to replicate than to create new. Plus, the mainframe on these bikes are super simple once you eliminate the subframe (which we did with a bandsaw). So it's less material, less work, less math.

I'll be making the mounts and bracing and doing all the welding, so that expense is avoided too. Remember, it's not what you know, it's who you know.  8)
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #463 on: January 23, 2017, 02:11:15 pm »
Turned, Ground and Polished. It's a very high grade of CroMo. It's cold drawn steel, with an exact OD, completely true, and polished to remove any mill scale. Runs about $3.70@ft. For our frame, it looks like less than $100 of material, and I think I know someone who will bend it on their CNC bender for me  :-X I'll just weld it to the stock neck so as to retain the VIN and title, and destroy the old frame hoops completely.

Planning to make only a couple of slight modifications to the stock frame, mostly to tie the engine hoops back to the backbone directly. Straighten and lower the backbone intersection to the neck. And increase the angle of the forward hoop, and spread the down tubes to a more perpendicular orientation as they run down and under the engine.wll certainly be adding bracing, but these small changes should improve rigidity without making the bike look non-stock.

I'll probably also see a decent weight reduction overall, greater strength, and more space. Win, win, win!

For the initiated, I presume a CNC bender has you input a 3D CAD drawing and it precision bends the tube sections to specification?  Sounds like a trick piece of kit.  I think my buddy used one on some girder trellis forks.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #464 on: January 23, 2017, 02:20:43 pm »
Or you can use a conversational interface and "plot" the lengths, radii, and distances. Bend a single tube in multiple axises, and reproduce it exactly on a second tube. I'll notch the tubes with a annular cutter for a precise fit. They'll be TIG welded for precision.
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*** Currently experiencing life at 60 WTFs per hour ***
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #465 on: January 23, 2017, 02:28:03 pm »
Or you can use a conversational interface and "plot" the lengths, radii, and distances. Bend a single tube in multiple axises, and reproduce it exactly on a second tube. I'll notch the tubes with a annular cutter for a precise fit. They'll be TIG welded for precision.

That combined with a STURDY jig, and you eliminate a lot of slop and asymmetry.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #466 on: January 23, 2017, 02:36:22 pm »
I got the sturdy part covered...
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*** Currently experiencing life at 60 WTFs per hour ***
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #467 on: January 23, 2017, 02:50:27 pm »
I got the sturdy part covered...

That's no joke.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #468 on: January 23, 2017, 03:11:26 pm »
6'x4'x5/8" welded to a 3"x3"x1/4" tube frame. Weighs just about 1,100#. I think it will do.
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*** Currently experiencing life at 60 WTFs per hour ***
I always thought getting old would take longer

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #469 on: January 23, 2017, 03:21:58 pm »
Wili - just as an FYI, with thin-walled TG&P, usually it's not necessary to stress relieve it. I'll either be using 0.058 or 0.063 so I'm not expecting to have to relieve it.
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*** Currently experiencing life at 60 WTFs per hour ***
I always thought getting old would take longer

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #470 on: January 23, 2017, 03:35:25 pm »
6'x4'x5/8" welded to a 3"x3"x1/4" tube frame. Weighs just about 1,100#. I think it will do.

It took all Jeffreys on deck to move that into position.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

Offline calj737

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #471 on: January 23, 2017, 03:45:49 pm »
It's on leveling casters. Built the frame, installed the casters. Then brought the top home, slid it out of the bed of the truck and directly onto the frame. Rolled it over to its home, levels it, welded it. Super easy.

Drilling 130 holes took some time with a Mag Drill though  ::)
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

*** Currently experiencing life at 60 WTFs per hour ***
I always thought getting old would take longer

Offline RAF122S

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #472 on: January 23, 2017, 04:08:41 pm »
With a frame like that you can support 2-3 ton on top? (Swag)
very nice and tidy work area...where did you learn all your skills Cal?
You are a veritable jack of all trades and master of many.

David
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

Offline RAF122S

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #473 on: January 23, 2017, 04:11:19 pm »
Man makes plans and God laughs...
I fully understand how life gets in the way.  Figured the garage, son's busy university life, and all you do helping others had slowed your efforts a lot.
David stuck in the curvy back roads of "Upper East" TN

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Re: '73 500 - Subframe Fabrication
« Reply #474 on: January 23, 2017, 04:19:25 pm »
With a frame like that you can support 2-3 ton on top? (Swag)
very nice and tidy work area...where did you learn all your skills Cal?
You are a veritable jack of all trades and master of many.

David

I vote that Cal opens Cal's Boot Camp for metal fabrication and electronics -- kind of like Colin Edwards' Texas Tornado Boot Camp, except for learning to fabricate frames and sheet metal, and to become a MotoGadget wiz.  What you pay to stay??

1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold

 

;
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