Topic: Best advice on repainting a frame? plus a few related questions.

[Peter K]

My bike is just about fully stripped down, with just a few things to do / get before I can get it resprayed or powder coated.

I haven't done this before and I know that many of you have so any advice would be much appreciated.

It seems that most automatically go for powder coating, although I have heard of some bad experiences with it, in that the powder coating can be quite thick which can cause some issues on reassembly.
The one person that has offered some advice on this told me that his experience was a bad one in that the thick coating was quite "plasticy", so that the powder coating squeezed out from behind brackets and any attachments, over time, became loose and left a rippled surface.  He was so dissatisfied that he had it all stripped down again and resprayed in a 2 pack car paint.

I have seen a catalogue on POR15 products and they read very good, but are they as good as the catalogue says?

I do have a friend that has used it on some under car components, he was the one who told me about the product and his experience to date seems very good.

I have a couple of really basic questions which highlights that I am doing this for the first time, but

1. What happens with the thin metal wiring brackets throughout the cleaning and re-coating? do you normally ignore them or get rid of them altogether?

2. what do you do with the frame name plate, I would expect that you drill out the rivets and install new after the frame is done?

3. if you drill out the old steering lock rivet, how do you secure the new rivet when you replace the lock? The only rivets that I have used in the past are "pop" rivets. I need to replace the lock as the key is broken off inside of it leaving nothing to grab onto to get it out.

I'll try to attach a couple of pictures, one of the type of bracket that I'm talking about, and the second with the frame identification plate.

Any advice would be welcome. Cheers and a happy 2014.
 

[KeithB]

I sent my frame and swing arm to a company that sand blasted them and painted them with heavy duty black paint and it worked out great!
Around $250

[jamesb]

Get you some implement paint or some Eastwood frame paint  the implement paint is cheaper but takes forever to cure and dry. But it is very durable and not easy to scratch. Eastwood paint is also good easy to work with easy to touch up if needed and is durable. The downside with Eastwood is the price around $30 a can I did two frames with the Eastwood paint. The implement paint is cheaper tractor supply has it valspar brand like I said before the down side to it is the drying/cure time.but worth the wait it is very durable don't know about touching up haven't had to. Eastwood can get scratches but very easy to touch up. It blends right in with other paint. As far as pop riveting your plate I wouldn't some states require the you use the original rivets if they see something different than original they assume something funny is going on. Just tape it off. Same as the lock also I never had any problems with the brackets. Patience is the number one thing in any job like this if you don't have it then you will have problems just take your time and your project will turn out great.

[Pecantree]

MCrider(Ron) talks about this(rivets) in his epic rebuild thread.
Worth reading the whole thing, But I think he got pound in rivets from McMaster's or Grainger's.
Good Luck

Steve

[BobbyR]

If you get some good masking tape you can carefully mask off the plate and any or the stickers. Rustoluem has a nice black enamel which has period correct color and is pretty inexpensive. It is easy to touch up. Most of the muscle car restorers I have have given up powdercoat. It is expensive and unless really well done it can peel, or rust can form underneath it.

[BeSeeingYou]

I used the Por 15 Hardnose and was happy with it.  You can brush it on or spray it.  It is a two part catalyzed paint so it is toxic so you have to use a respirator.  Brushing is safer but it still has some nasty fumes so you need good ventilation.  It lays down nice and the brush marks flow out to a nice high gloss finish...probably more glossy than the original paint.  Brushing was much slower and tedious but I had no choice....it was winter and I had to do it in the porch...heaters on and a window open for ventilation....and well sealed form the rest of the house.    On this XS650 frame I used a small amount of JB Weld as putty to fair out around the ugly welds and did a small amount of filing to knock down any high spots and welding splatter.

[Peter K]

Thanks for the advice, srust58, your frame looks fantastic. I will probably follow your example and as jamesb says, have plenty of patience.
Thanks again.

[BobbyR]

I used the Por 15 Hardnose and was happy with it.  You can brush it on or spray it.  It is a two part catalyzed paint so it is toxic so you have to use a respirator.  Brushing is safer but it still has some nasty fumes so you need good ventilation.  It lays down nice and the brush marks flow out to a nice high gloss finish...probably more glossy than the original paint.  Brushing was much slower and tedious but I had no choice....it was winter and I had to do it in the porch...heaters on and a window open for ventilation....and well sealed form the rest of the house.    On this XS650 frame I used a small amount of JB Weld as putty to fair out around the ugly welds and did a small amount of filing to knock down any high spots and welding splatter.

Beautiful job!  I like the way you feathered out around the welds to make everything flows smoothly. The transitions between the welded parts are less abrupt.

[BeSeeingYou]

I used the Por 15 Hardnose and was happy with it.  You can brush it on or spray it.  It is a two part catalyzed paint so it is toxic so you have to use a respirator.  Brushing is safer but it still has some nasty fumes so you need good ventilation.  It lays down nice and the brush marks flow out to a nice high gloss finish...probably more glossy than the original paint.  Brushing was much slower and tedious but I had no choice....it was winter and I had to do it in the porch...heaters on and a window open for ventilation....and well sealed form the rest of the house.    On this XS650 frame I used a small amount of JB Weld as putty to fair out around the ugly welds and did a small amount of filing to knock down any high spots and welding splatter.

Beautiful job!  I like the way you feathered out around the welds to make everything flows smoothly. The transitions between the welded parts are less abrupt.

I did that anywhere there was a visible weld...amazing how little was needed and the frame does look much better.  From what a few others have said the JB will hold up to powercoating too so why go to all the work to get a nice paint or PC job and have all those ugly welds?

[edwardmorris]

If you get some good masking tape you can carefully mask off the plate and any or the stickers. Rustoluem has a nice black enamel which has period correct color and is pretty inexpensive. It is easy to touch up. Most of the muscle car restorers I have have given up powdercoat. It is expensive and unless really well done it can peel, or rust can form underneath it.

Hey BobbyR, which one is the period specific/stock black for the 750s? I'll be painting my frame fairly soon and would like to do it myself, and Rustoleum would be great if they have the right color and just about available anywhere locally.

Also, does anyone know if the 'flat black' that Honda used on the gauges, triple trees and such the same as the frame color? Or was the frame different with a little gloss?

[BobbyR]

If you get some good masking tape you can carefully mask off the plate and any or the stickers. Rustoluem has a nice black enamel which has period correct color and is pretty inexpensive. It is easy to touch up. Most of the muscle car restorers I have have given up powdercoat. It is expensive and unless really well done it can peel, or rust can form underneath it.

Hey BobbyR, which one is the period specific/stock black for the 750s? I'll be painting my frame fairly soon and would like to do it myself, and Rustoleum would be great if they have the right color and just about available anywhere locally.

Also, does anyone know if the 'flat black' that Honda used on the gauges, triple trees and such the same as the frame color? Or was the frame different with a little gloss?

The Rustoleum gloss enamel is pretty close to the original. The original paint most likely had some lead in it, so you are not getting that anymore. Using newspaper and masking tape you would be surprised what you can paint without removing things.
The guages seem to look best in a semi gloss. The gloss is a bit too shiny for those parts.   

[Garage_guy_chris]

I did my CB450 frame in 2 part single stage urethane automotive paint 3 years ago and its holding up great. it stands up to the elements and oil or gas spills. I also figure its easier to touch up then powdercoating. Im still debating what to do with the 750 project.

for those with spray bombed frames does it stand up to gas and oil spills?

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day Peter, my first preference is powdercoating and as you're in Melbourne too, I can put you on to an excellent sandblaster/powdercoater who will do a great job, and you won't be disappointed.

Having said that, the last frame I did (on my Cafe Racer) I painted. Dave500 put me on to Killrust epoxy enamel ($12 per can from Bunnings) and all I did was thoroughly degrease, then lightly sand the OEM paint on my K1 frame, etch primed it with Super Etch, and sprayed the frame and swingarm etc in my driveway on a hot summer day.

That was a couple of years ago, and it still looks great. Total cost was under $50, and the result is as good as any I've seen, and this stuff dries hard, and is super tough. The other good thing is that you can just touch it up if you scratch it when you shove your engine back in, etc. Cheers, Terry.

   

[PeWe]

I left my frame to a local company that sandblast and paint 2k on industrial parts. Motorcycle frame/parts beside the jobs for coffee money, $150US. Sandblast, 2k primer, 2k semigloss black. Good enough for me.
All small parts in black had cost at least 50 extra.

HONDA did not powder coat the frame. 
Removed the alu nameplate before. I'll add all HONDA stickers when bike is ready.  New stickers bought.

[Sgt.Pinback]

HONDA did not powder coat the frame. 

Exactly, I just wanted to write this.

So please dont do that.

[Terry in Australia]

HONDA did not powder coat the frame. 

Exactly, I just wanted to write this.

So please do that.

Er, not wanting to sully your excellent points men, but I think you'll find that they didn't have powdercoating technology until a few years after our bikes were built?

[PeWe]

I got the sandblast and 2k paint for a very good price which helped me how to do.... I had 2k before too that I did at my job 30 years ago.
Powdercoating is very common nowadays.

[AJK]

Hi Peter,

If you find a reputable bloke who can do it properly, you will be more than happy with the results of power coating. Perhaps speak with Terry on that one.

Here are some pics of my frame and other small pieces done by a powder coater in Sydney. The frame was grit blasted then powder coated gloss black. I hosed it down at home to get the crud off from his shop after picking it up. I'm real happy with the results & will probably do it again on my next frame by the same bloke.

Last two pictures is the gauges before and after.

PS: Also attached is the Rust Gaurd epoxy enamel (same/simliar to the Killrust that both Terry and Dave were talking about). Its great stuff, you'll love it.

Don't be scared of it, unless your a purist.

[Sgt.Pinback]

Er, not wanting to sully your excellent points men, but I think you'll find that they didn't have powdercoating technology until a few years after our bikes were built?

Exactly thats the point.

[BobbyR]

Powdercoat became popular as they tightened you the regulations on exhausting the fumes from paint spraying. new expensive equipment was needed. The frames of the Railroad wheel Trucks are painted overseas, and we cannot bring the paint into the US to do touch ups.  Powdercoat was tried and it was a failure. It did not hold up very well at all.  For touch ups and refurbishing, they use Dupont Imron down in the shop.

[lucky]

I sent my frame and swing arm to a company that sand blasted them and painted them with heavy duty black paint and it worked out great!
Around $250

Paint or powder coat?
What kind of paint?
Did you ask what kind of paint?

[Powderman]

From the negative replies here regarding powder coating I can only say that who ever did your work absolutely did not know what they were doing if those were the results. I am constantly correcting old wives tales about powder coating. If put on properly powder goes on in one coat at a thickness of 2-3mils (.002-.003) By the time you have primer and a couple coats of paint it will be thicker than that. A modern car paint job is in the 5-6mil range. Powder is harder to touch up but no excessively hard to do. But powder is so much more durable than paint that the likelihood of having to do touch ups is almost nil. I always look at it as you will have to touch up paint, not if. The powder will not sag or peel if proper prep has been done, so it is important to find a reputable coater who warrantees their work.nA good coater experienced in coat m/c frames will know what hoes to plug and what needs to be masked so fitment on reassembly is not an issue. It helps if you let the coater know what needs you want as far as plugging, capping and masking.

[Bru-tom]

you mean micron

[Powderman]

No I don't.  A micron is 1millionth of a yard or .0003937", which would make it 1/10 the thickness of what powder should be. Microns are seldom used in todays vernacular.

[Bru-tom]

well, here is South Africa @ Mercedes Benz, we use micron.