Topic: ABS Brakes. You're thoughts.

[Retro Rocket]

Honda and Yamaha both introduced ABS in 1992 on the ST1100 and the GTS1000, BMW introduced it in 1988..

[DH]

Dont have ABS, or don't have the ability to switch it off mate? ABS is still pretty new tech for the Jap bike manufacturers, I think they were waiting for the European bike manufacturers to get it right before they copied it........

My bike doesn't have ABS. I'd have to check, but IIRC, they may have offered a '09 model CBR with it as an option. I knew BMW used it, but didn't realize it wasn't particularly new to them. Or for anybody else, for that matter. Shows how much I know about how the "other half" lives  

[MCRider]

Honda and Yamaha both introduced ABS in 1992 on the ST1100 and the GTS1000, BMW introduced it in 1988..

My friends 92 FJ1200 is ABS. Slightly better sales than the GTS.

Don't think it was standard at the time. He's never said boo about it one way or the other. Think he likes knowing its there.

[Terry in Australia]

That's right Ron, a few years after BMW installed ABS as standard on their bikes the Jap manufacturers offered it as an option on some of their models, but I think it was standard on the later FJ1200's. (My 1987 model doesn't have it)

I'm happy about that too, the procedure for rebuilding the ABS equipped brakes on the FJ1200's is quite extensive, and something that I wouldn't like to tackle, I have to rebuild my calipers when the new seal kits arrive, and it's much simpler for the "old tech" brakes. (no bleeding and flushing ABS modules etc) Cheers, Terry.  

[Oddjob]

I have a 2010 CB1300 with ABS. Along with a few other bikes I must add. I learned to ride quite young and passed my test at 16 in the UK, that was the last year anyone was able to do this as the law changed just after so you had to be 17 to ride a motorbike. Just saying this so you can get an idea of experience. I rode everything there was at the time (1970s) ended up as a club racer or production racer as it was in those days, a Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki main dealer mechanic. Never had an accident since 1972 and I'm what you would call a "nutter" when on a bike, or so my mates would say. I ride very hard, but safely IMO.

However all that changed in Nov 2011, I was coming home from work on the 1300. Stopped at a set of lights as they were red. They changed, I set off quite smartly as I was dying for a piss, car on the opposite carriageway decided they'd like to turn right and just didn't see me. All this happened within 5 secs, I was looking left at the time as I was checking the traffic coming down the side road to make sure it stopped. I spotted the car turning across me, now I'm a VERY experienced rider, I know how to brake, however the first thing I did was grab a handful of the front brake and stomp on the rear brake, the bike was front end light as I was accelerating fairly hard so first it had to settle down on the front end before the front brake really started to grip, the road was quite damp BTW, all this took about 2 secs if that, I was probably going around 15mph as I'd only just set off. Without ABS I'd have still have hit the car but I'd have hit it harder and in a worse place, possibly I'd have been on the floor either in front of the bike if it spat me off (hate to think of the bike crushing me against the car if that had have happened) or behind the bike and going to hit my own bike when it hit the car. However thanks to the ABS I was able to control the bike to some degree, things by this time appeared to be going in slo-mo, weird that but true. I was able to steer the bike to the left, the forks were now fully compressed, the back end was starting to get light due to weight transference yet I was still able to steer away from the car. In fact IF she had spotted me and braked I would have avoided the accident, I stopped the bike with the front wheel right in front of her bonnet/hood as you yanks call em. She then hit me, real hard, luckily my leg wasn't between the car and bike as only the front fork area was hit, without ABS I'm 100% sure my leg would have been there, providing of course I'd have been able to steer the bike in the first place. End of story, one fractured pelvis, one set of bollocks you could use as space hoppers and one arm/shoulder very very bruised, bike was written off as she pushed it a further 10 yards or so with it trapped under the car, by this time I'd exited stage right over her car.

I bought an identical 1300 as a replacement, again with ABS as it's standard after 2005 on that model. Whilst working on the rear end I accidentally caught the ABS sensor and ruined it, my fault entirely. The ABS system was now not working, light on dash etc to let me know this. However I didn't alter my riding style at all, well I did for a few miles until I figured out that I could brake almost as hard without it, I rode like that for 3 weeks until I fitted a new sensor, no problems whatsoever and this was in winter again BTW.

Would I say ABS works, yep, big time,  is it worth it? 100%  is it costly to repair? not too bad considering. I'd buy another bike without ABS without any problems, however if there was an option to have it fitted as standard I'd go for it everytime.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks for that OJ, I enjoyed your post, and I'm glad that you survived your "Off". now that my old K100RS with ABS is 25 years old I'll be able to put it back on the road under a "Club Permit", so I think I'll use it on damp days........ Cheers, Terry.

[scrapvalue]

I have a 2010 CB1300 with ABS. Along with a few other bikes I must add. I learned to ride quite young and passed my test at 16 in the UK, that was the last year anyone was able to do this as the law changed just after so you had to be 17 to ride a motorbike. Just saying this so you can get an idea of experience. I rode everything there was at the time (1970s) ended up as a club racer or production racer as it was in those days, a Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki main dealer mechanic. Never had an accident since 1972 and I'm what you would call a "nutter" when on a bike, or so my mates would say. I ride very hard, but safely IMO.

However all that changed in Nov 2011, I was coming home from work on the 1300. Stopped at a set of lights as they were red. They changed, I set off quite smartly as I was dying for a piss, car on the opposite carriageway decided they'd like to turn right and just didn't see me. All this happened within 5 secs, I was looking left at the time as I was checking the traffic coming down the side road to make sure it stopped. I spotted the car turning across me, now I'm a VERY experienced rider, I know how to brake, however the first thing I did was grab a handful of the front brake and stomp on the rear brake, the bike was front end light as I was accelerating fairly hard so first it had to settle down on the front end before the front brake really started to grip, the road was quite damp BTW, all this took about 2 secs if that, I was probably going around 15mph as I'd only just set off. Without ABS I'd have still have hit the car but I'd have hit it harder and in a worse place, possibly I'd have been on the floor either in front of the bike if it spat me off (hate to think of the bike crushing me against the car if that had have happened) or behind the bike and going to hit my own bike when it hit the car. However thanks to the ABS I was able to control the bike to some degree, things by this time appeared to be going in slo-mo, weird that but true. I was able to steer the bike to the left, the forks were now fully compressed, the back end was starting to get light due to weight transference yet I was still able to steer away from the car. In fact IF she had spotted me and braked I would have avoided the accident, I stopped the bike with the front wheel right in front of her bonnet/hood as you yanks call em. She then hit me, real hard, luckily my leg wasn't between the car and bike as only the front fork area was hit, without ABS I'm 100% sure my leg would have been there, providing of course I'd have been able to steer the bike in the first place. End of story, one fractured pelvis, one set of bollocks you could use as space hoppers and one arm/shoulder very very bruised, bike was written off as she pushed it a further 10 yards or so with it trapped under the car, by this time I'd exited stage right over her car.

I bought an identical 1300 as a replacement, again with ABS as it's standard after 2005 on that model. Whilst working on the rear end I accidentally caught the ABS sensor and ruined it, my fault entirely. The ABS system was now not working, light on dash etc to let me know this. However I didn't alter my riding style at all, well I did for a few miles until I figured out that I could brake almost as hard without it, I rode like that for 3 weeks until I fitted a new sensor, no problems whatsoever and this was in winter again BTW.

Would I say ABS works, yep, big time,  is it worth it? 100%  is it costly to repair? not too bad considering. I'd buy another bike without ABS without any problems, however if there was an option to have it fitted as standard I'd go for it everytime.

Sounds like a whole bunch of speculation and no real evidence that the ABS did much of anything.   If you need ABS to protect you at 15mph, you might want to take up a new hobby.    Maybe I am missing something in your story, but it still sounds a lot like rider error. I'm sorry, but no amount of "safety features" can protect us from ourselves.  Sooner or later you will find away to bypass all of them.

[Oddjob]

I fail to see how getting hit by someone who crosses 3 lanes before hitting me can be down to rider error. As for speculation, I've had loads of hairy moments, both on the road and on the track, I've yet to have been able to steer when the front wheel is totally locked, it's all you can do to keep the bike upright with the front wheel howling like mad.

As for 15mph, I was accelerating, you know that thing you do to go faster, it was the factor of the bike getting all light as the weight went to the back and the suddeness of the incident which made me appreciate the ABS more, without it I'd be either dead or very badly injured. All the ambulance staff and the police were saying how lucky I was to get away with the injuries I did get, I didn't feel lucky at the time but looking back on it I can see what they mean.

My point is the ABS did what it was supposed to, without it I'd have been a lot worse off, if that's not praise for something that I didn't really consider to be that important when I bought the bike than I don't know what is. If you think you can brake better and safer without ABS then your the fool. I did over 16000 miles on my 1300 last year, 8000 of them through a british winter, I reckon that gives me the right to an opinion.

[Terry in Australia]

Well said, OddJob

+1, while I don't care either way about ABS, (I like the fact that it works but I hate the added complexity and the knowledge that parts for old ABS systems will be impossible to source in time) I've seen some ridiculous arguments against it, which is surprising.

If you don't like something, that's fine, but you can't argue that it doesn't work just because you don't like it. Everyone knows that it does work, so why argue against the truth? Cheers, Terry.

[MCRider]

Well said, OddJob

+1, while I don't care either way about ABS, (I like the fact that it works but I hate the added complexity and the knowledge that parts for old ABS systems will be impossible to source in time) I've seen some ridiculous arguments against it, which is surprising.

If you don't like something, that's fine, but you can't argue that it doesn't work just because you don't like it. Everyone knows that it does work, so why argue against the truth? Cheers, Terry.

I ugree. 

[Markcb750]

When Two deer jumped over a guard rail and into my path I was able to jig around one but the next one I was not going to clear.  I panic braked, the rear locked up and slid out to my right.  I had slowed considerably but as the front wheel hit the deer's hind quarters the torque of the side slipping rear wheel flipped the bike to its right side tossing my wife out the high side where she rolled to a stop breaking 2 ribs.

I held onto the bars and the bike judo flipped me pnto the pavement breaking 5 ribs.

I think if the Vulcan had had anti-lock breaks I would have been able to hit the 2nd deer straight on, perhaps just pushing it out of the way.  Perhaps


If I ever buy a new touring set of wheels it will have ABS.

[Terry in Australia]

Anyway, enough about ABS, what about a nice airbag?

[Bob Wessner]

Anyway, enough about ABS, what about a nice airbag?

Or Skully helmets. 

[Terry in Australia]

Anyway, enough about ABS, what about a nice airbag?

Or Skully helmets. 

Or Cruise Control?

[toytuff]

Oil?

 

tt

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yes, we need airbags on our bikes, and safety cages too.
And four wheels instead of two while we are at it.

[Oddjob]

When Two deer jumped over a guard rail and into my path I was able to jig around one but the next one I was not going to clear.  I panic braked, the rear locked up and slid out to my right.  I had slowed considerably but as the front wheel hit the deer's hind quarters the torque of the side slipping rear wheel flipped the bike to its right side tossing my wife out the high side where she rolled to a stop breaking 2 ribs.

I held onto the bars and the bike judo flipped me pnto the pavement breaking 5 ribs.

I think if the Vulcan had had anti-lock breaks I would have been able to hit the 2nd deer straight on, perhaps just pushing it out of the way.  Perhaps


If I ever buy a new touring set of wheels it will have ABS.

The worst thing about that accident or perhaps the thing which made me cringe the most, was the fact that your wife was hurt. Bikers know that at some time they are going to either throw it down the road, hit something or have something hit us. We accept that, it's one of the downsides to riding bikes but we accept it because the upside, the freedom, the joy and the unique pleasure we get out of riding bikes outweighs the downside. If my missus had been on the back of me when I had my accident and she had got hurt, the guilt I'd have experienced would have hurt me more than my injuries. Even though I was blameless for my accident (and the insurance companies accepted that, thank god) it doesn't distract from the responsibility I have to keep here safe whilst she's on the back. My missus loves riding the bikes, we have done thousands upon thousands of miles together. I think though, that if she was ever hurt, especially if it was my fault, I'd seriously think of packing riding in.
Not in any way saying you were at fault there, clearly things were beyond your control, but I'm willing to bet you felt guilty for it not turning out better than it did. Human nature I suppose. Glad she wasn't really badly hurt and I hope she made a full recovery, well done I say for doing everything you could in a bad situation, it could have been so much worse.

I was talking to a guy once in a pub who'd hit a deer whilst riding through Scotland, he hit it with a Honda Blackbird and in his words, "he was going some", both he and his missus walked away, the bike had it's forks bent. Luckily he said " I was able to hit the deer head on, the deer actually passed right over the bike due to the forks being so compressed it sort of flipped it over" Bike was repaired and the deer was ok, so good result all round.

[Oddjob]

Oh and the GL1800 has both Cruise control and airbag. along with ABS naturally. Might as well have 4 wheels IMO.

[Terry in Australia]

Oh and the GL1800 has both Cruise control and airbag. along with ABS naturally. Might as well have 4 wheels IMO.

Ha ha, so it's OK to have ABS, that you might use once in a blue moon, but something as usefull as being able to take your hand off the throttle on a long ride without sudden decelleration, or something that will stop you from impacting with that car or deer is akin to driving a car? Hmmmnnn, I think I detect some bias here OJ?

The new GL1800 is a barge, for sure, (as is your 1300) but I think you'd be surprised at how well it actually goes, my mate John Hawkes has a 2012 GL1800 and on a ride up into the hills around Kinglake here in Victoria, I was surprised at the lean angles available. It doesn't have the grunt of my Triumph Rocket III, but is a lot easier to throw around.

Of course John is an excellent rider too, (he also punts RC30's, Bimota's and CB1100R's) but I was nonetheless impressed at how well that big beast went around corners. Cheers, Terry.

   

[Markcb750]

Yes Odd Job, it does make me cringe when I think of how she could have been hurt.   She has ridden since the accident. Silver lining is she no longer debates safety gear.


When I see this in my backyard I also cringe.

[Oddjob]

Me!!! Bias!!! yep fraid so. My brother in law has a wing, the GL1500. I nicknamed it "the boat" namely because it has the turning circle of an oil tanker.

I was a Honda mechanic when the first GL1000 came out, it was a bit of a beast even then and TBH it ain't got any smaller. I'm not saying it's a bad bike, just that it's not the bike for me, it's smooth, comfortable but built for roads, that in the UK, we really don't have. It's a long distance highway cruiser and really built for the US market to combat the HD. At low speeds, especially low speed maneuvering it really shows how big it is and TBH just how clumsy it is. At speed, your right, it's quite nimble but the amount of accessories my  BINL has put on it, whip aerials, running boards, arm rests etc has made it a lot worse than it should be.

As for cruise control, my CB500-4 has that, ok you need to turn the throttle pipe screw under the R/H grip but it works, in a fashion.

Airbag I think is a bit of a gimmick, it wouldn't have helped Marks wife as she went sideways, I doubt if in my accident it would have deployed as it was a side impact and I think the sensor is set up for a frontal impact.

But hey, I'm all for anything which lessens injuries, gimmick or not. Some however are of more practical use than others.

[dave500]

i couldnt get a souped up pit bike around that track as fast as that!

[kghost]

i couldnt get a souped up pit bike around that track as fast as that!

Don't you guys believe that for a second.......

Dave could get a pit bike around a track pretty fast.....

Morning Dave. Want ABS with your pitbike?

[dave500]

ha,morning tim,no abs please,i hate abs in the morning,it smells like..........no tyre smoke!

[kghost]

ha,morning tim,no abs please,i hate abs in the morning,it smells like..........no tyre smoke!

Burnouts mate.....burnouts lololol

(I'm working on 10,000 posts as I feel left out)

((no not really.....I'm headed downstairs to replace those 2 caliper seals))