Author Topic: Oil thread! Using a Zinc additive to oil? (Read 4659 times)

Magpie · « **on:** January 12, 2014, 08:43:56 AM »

Over on the GL1800 forum there's usually a thread about transmission failures. It has a clunky transmission especially first to second and a double click to fifth. A recognized Goldwing mechanical guru posted a thread about a using a zinc additive and how it made his trans much easier to shift and smoother. Is anyone using it here? The old oils had much more zinc than todays oils. Vintage car owners are using it too. The additive he used is ZDDP http://zddplus.com/ Click on "About Us" to get the story on it's development. It seems it would help with our older designed engines. The Goldwing owners are reporting an immediate improvement when they use it. Cliff.

MRieck · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2014, 09:41:31 AM »

I use that product in all my bikes. I think it helps in street rocker arm engines with high valve spring pressures.

bwaller · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2014, 12:24:45 PM »

Mike turned me onto this too. Besides our street bikes I've used it in my race engine and the cam/rockers look like new. I'm not sure about the smoother shifting deal, but who knows.

dusterdude · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2014, 02:06:42 PM »

Can i guess zinc doesnt hurt the clutch?

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Magpie · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2014, 04:02:12 PM »

According to a GL1800 Goldwing guru, after using it for a year and about 25,000 miles - no clutch issues.

MRieck · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2014, 07:12:55 AM »

No clutch issues with the 4 bikes I use it in

strynboen · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2014, 08:30:33 AM »

no issues with the 5 bikes i NOT use it in..

scottly · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2014, 08:02:33 PM »

I added some zinc additive (STP) on my last oil change out of concern for the rockers and cam. I'd seen some pitted VW lifters with less than 10K miles on them a few years ago, when I first learned of the lack of zinc in modern oils. From what I've gathered, it is a bigger issue when breaking in a new cam than running a broken-in motor, but I'm not taking any unnecessary chances.

BobbyR · « **Reply #8 on:** January 13, 2014, 08:06:50 PM »

Quote from: MRieck on January 12, 2014, 09:41:31 AM

I use that product in all my bikes. I think it helps in street rocker arm engines with high valve spring pressures.

If Mike says it is good i am getting some.

jerry h · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2014, 09:30:42 PM »

So what is a recommended level of Z and P for our SOHC 750 engines/wet clutches? For example, I'm using Castrol 4T 10W40. I've been searching for quite a while trying to find some official Castrol data, but haven't found anything yet. On this website (http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/viscosity.htm) I found the following (but have no idea if its correct or current):

Castrol's 4T oil, (and Grand Prix oil, which is the SAME OIL) in either grade 10W40 or 20W50, as appropriate to your climate, is SG rated and formulated. Zinc component is 1100ppm; Calcium component is 1900 ppm; and Phosphorus component is 1000 ppm.

I'm all for adding some ZDDP but how much?

Duanob · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2014, 08:50:43 AM »

Wow I thought I was safe using Rotella oil but not any more. Shell significanty reduced the amount of zinc they put in. I guess I'll go back to adding STP too.

TwoTired · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2014, 09:04:28 AM »

In 1975, STP (consistency of honey) definitely made my 74 CB550's clutch slip at 1500 miles since new (took 5 oil change intervals to reverse the effect).

I have no idea if the can's internal formulation has changed since then. But, if I had to guess, it probably has. Still, I wouldn't use STP with a wet clutch. Perhaps it is a viscosity thing, where the clutch plates can't squeeze out enough oil to create the needed friction. (Good for motor wear/bad for wet clutch friction.)

dusterdude · « **Reply #12 on:** January 14, 2014, 11:07:53 AM »

Dont use stp in a wet clutch

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Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2014, 11:28:37 AM »

What are optimum numbers in ppm in the oil that you would want to see for zinc and phosphorus in bikes of our vintage?
Is around 1100-1200ppm Zn considered OK?

w1sa · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2014, 04:02:07 PM »

You should aim for better than 1200ppm zinc (Phos content in zddp compound is usually about 90% of the Zinc content and just as important)....up to 1800ppm max for excellent boundary layer protection..............generally, greater than 1800ppm is unnecessary and can (apparently) prove detrimental with prolonged use.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2014, 04:55:19 PM »

Subscribed.... Can anyone convert the PPM values to how much per liter, or gallon...?

scottly · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2014, 10:55:31 PM »

I meant STP brand zinc additive.

dusterdude · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2014, 05:56:21 AM »

Gotcha

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Duanob · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2014, 08:45:53 AM »

I was checking out Bardahl products and it seems they quit making their own in house and out-source to the same big oil companies everyone else does

they used to be a great old school product.

ohiocaferacer · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2014, 11:41:40 AM »

The zinc acts as a friction additive in the oil for the wet clutches. I used to have issues with the newer oils in the older bikes with wet clutches(clutch slipping on acceleration). The Hondaline brand of oils solved my issue. I was told they still use zinc in their motorcycle oils. Worked for me!

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2014, 12:38:52 PM »

Looks like the Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 states a P level of 1200ppm and Zn of 1300 ppm- within the limits of what most people recommend.
Castrol's MSDS only listed their ZDDP content as 1-5% of total volume and they listed the concentration at 0.56-1.1144 (they didn't include any units with the concentration description).

Duanob · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2014, 01:30:48 PM »

Quote from: ohiocaferacer on January 15, 2014, 11:41:40 AM

The zinc acts as a friction additive in the oil for the wet clutches. I used to have issues with the newer oils in the older bikes with wet clutches(clutch slipping on acceleration). The Hondaline brand of oils solved my issue. I was told they still use zinc in their motorcycle oils. Worked for me!

Good to know.

Isn't Mobil 1 a 100% synthetic? Wouldn't think the clutch would like that.

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #22 on:** January 15, 2014, 01:35:54 PM »

I have been using full synthetic on all three of my bikes with wet clutches and no slippage here at all.
One drawback I have experienced is leaky oil seals get leakier with the synthetic.

sohc boy · « **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2014, 01:00:10 PM »

Quote from: scottly on January 13, 2014, 08:02:33 PM

I added some zinc additive (STP) on my last oil change out of concern for the rockers and cam. I'd seen some pitted VW lifters with less than 10K miles on them a few years ago, when I first learned of the lack of zinc in modern oils. From what I've gathered, it is a bigger issue when breaking in a new cam than running a broken-in motor, but I'm not taking any unnecessary chances.

russ · « **Reply #24 on:** September 06, 2020, 12:00:21 PM »

warning some oils do not mix well with ZDDP just ask Opel engineering as he used it for years and then had a motor go down on his dyno with the owners oil with added ADDP the issue was the back side of the cam lobe was worn down. just use good oil.
like driven oil or AMSOIL.
added to much ZDDP can and will eat up copper like (some) crank bearings have.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 06, 2020, 12:49:29 PM »

Subscribed.
Where can I get zinc additive and how much is good per quart ?

RAFster122s · « **Reply #26 on:** September 06, 2020, 02:40:11 PM »

ZDDP + on Amazon...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ZDDPlus&ref=bl_dp_s_web_20178286011

As far as how much, thread will have some information...but you need to try and determine how much the oil has so you don’t overdose your oil. Tough to do. Some of the links mentioned in this thread have outdated info now and I haven’t looked at them lately. But, you should be good on some of the information if they state the grade oil tested, SH, SJ, SM, etc.

If you are using a good motorcycle oil I wouldn’t expect to need zddp added. Are you looking to dose higher for break-in?
David

I was confusing this thread for another where HondaMan was talking about ZDDP... gonna need to find it to have the other websites I was thinking about... Sorry.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 06, 2020, 03:44:51 PM »

David,I'm running Shell Rotella T4 15/40 standard non-synthetic,not sure if it has quite enough zinc..

CBJoe · « **Reply #28 on:** September 06, 2020, 04:31:30 PM »

Not trying to re-start an oil thread...but Mr Rieck suggested Motul 300V Synthetic Motor Oil - 15W50 to me as it apparently has a high zinc content already so no need for the additive. Expensive oil, but I don't really put that many miles on the CB, so its only a yearly expense. However its a built engine with go fast parts...so not sure same applies to original stock.

Joe

grcamna2 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 06, 2020, 06:54:26 PM »

I would just like to add a small amount of it to the standard Shell Rotella T4 that I always use for extra protection,but not too much.

scottly · « **Reply #30 on:** September 06, 2020, 07:02:24 PM »

Quote from: grcamna2 on September 06, 2020, 03:44:51 PM

David,I'm running Shell Rotella T4 15/40 standard non-synthetic,not sure if it has quite enough zinc..

You are fine with the Rotella; I've used it in my CB, as well as my Toyota truck.

RAFster122s · « **Reply #31 on:** September 06, 2020, 08:29:20 PM »

Agree with Scott, you are fine with the Rotella.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 06, 2020, 08:32:45 PM »

Don R · « **Reply #33 on:** September 10, 2020, 11:59:26 PM »

The Top alcohol racers I know use 70 weight valvoline racing oil and add a few quarts of differential oil to a barrel due to it's high zinc content. When it gets milky from alcohol contamination they heat it in 5 gallon cans with a nitrous bottle warmer with a cloth over the top and cook the alcohol and moisture back out of it.

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Author Topic: Oil thread! Using a Zinc additive to oil? (Read 4659 times)