Topic: CB750 F1 Streettracker/Bratstyle conversion

[jacquesleclochard]

Hoera Yvo!

[InAquaVeritas]

Hoera inderdaad! Goeie forum naam!

Jacques Clochard is the owner of Tin Can Customs in Amsterdam and a big part of this build! Tons of knowledge on CB's and a very good eye for building really cool bikes! Check it out on Facebook!


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Tapatalk

[754]

Hope you get it done in time..looks great..

[calj737]

Looks great. You asked about custom wire looms etc. MotoGadget m-unit and/or their m-button makes re-wires very clean and easy. Also, you get some added functional benefits. Here's the headlight bucket after using the m-button.

[Higgey-G]

Looks great. You asked about custom wire looms etc. MotoGadget m-unit and/or their m-button makes re-wires very clean and easy. Also, you get some added functional benefits. Here's the headlight bucket after using the m-button.

Calj,

Sorry, don't want to hijack the thread, but do you know of any other similar multiplexers that are less costly? I think it is awesome but just don't have the money to buy one.   Possibly any alternatives to cleaning up the triangle? 

[calj737]

PM sent

[InAquaVeritas]

Aaaaaand, we're back in business! I just came home from working abroad and getting ready to work on my bike again!

Before I left I got a heap of work done, but didn't get a chance to finish it.

This is was what has been done since:

First off I pulled the valves and springs out, so more work on the motor can be done. I'm going to do a big overhaul:
Sodablast the case and repaint
Check all parts for wear and replace when necessary
Replace all rubbers
Replace cam chain
Fix third gear (it jumps out)
New clutch plates


The rear hoop got installed and it looks killer!




I ordered new side covers from FB Stuff, reproductions of originals. Mine didn't quite fit unfortunately, or at least not as I wanted them. The left cover was sticking way out and I want it flush on the frame. Cut out the tabs and have them welded back in.
The oil tank is the attachment for the right side, but I'm mounting on the inside of the tabs, so the cover comes in as well.



The school I worked at was has a welding class and the teacher had his students make my new electrical box. FOR FREE! Perks of my job for sure!


The bottom half houses the battery and most of the electrics at a later stage (battery just fits..)


The tray that sits in it closes it up and will have my chain lock sitting in it (needs to be padded with foam)


It will also be part of the mounting point




It all fits into the space where the original battery was located and I will use the original holes even.

Seat pan in the making, not sure how the bend it. Was thinking of putting the tail end in a vice and bending it over a piece of tube with the right dimensions? Any suggestions?


New indicators. Since this will be a daily driver and traffic here is insane, indicators are a must for me. I know it's not a hard-ass thing to do, but no-one is a hard-ass when they're dead


New speedo/tacho. Acewell ACE 2853: fully digital speedo from a pick up and tacho from a coil pick up.


Road legal things: licence plate lights, these double as high intensity LED indicators.


New handlebars. Renthal twinwall with 2007 ZX6R controls. I doooooo hope the master cilinder will be right for my '05 brakes.... No clip-ons here, I like the look of fat MX bars and it's more comfortable I think.


Impression of the paint job. After a few tries with several layers I decided to give up on the DIY and have it done by a pro. Since I'm doing a full build, the paint is as important!


FINALLY I have a mock up with the triples installed! Rolling frame is amazing, gives me a chance to see if the lines are right and for me it's spot on. It has dropped quite a bit, the engine won't be sitting level anymore, hope the plumbing all still works out internally.
The rear swing arm from an '04 ZX6R is about 10 cm/4" longer than the original, but with the shorter front shocks all the trail and rake calculations worked out.
Jeroen from VVM Racing has lined up the rear brakes and wheel ('04 bracket/'05 brake and calliper/'05 wheel), lined up the swing arm itself by making the ZX6R swing arm axle into a sleeve for the original CB750 axle. This allows me to use the original bearings and it doesn't need any extra spacers.
He welded mounts onto the swing arm for the shocks, these are the ones that the bike came with. About the throw them out, but Jeroen told me theses ones are some of the best around and are rebuildable, which I will do. Can't think of the name, can't be bothered walking out to the garage now.
The front shocks need some new seal and fluid, along with adjustments. I will have that done by a pro, since I know NOTHING of this and don't want to have another uncertainty when taking this thing out for the first time, as this is my first build ever...

[Terry in Australia]

Looking good mate, the rear shocks are either Koni's or Ikon's (Koni's were made in Holland and Ikon's are made in Australia, the Australian Koni distributor bought the patents from Koni when Koni stopped making bike shocks) and are great shocks, so don't throw them away, they're not cheap either.

I'm interested in your build as I have a set of Ducati USD forks, Brembo calipers and Yamaha FZ6R wheels, and am thinking of building something similar based on a K series CB750. I know you haven't installed your engine yet, but I'm wondering what the offset will be required to line the front sprocket with the rear? Also, what size chain are you going to run? Subscribed! Cheers, Terry.

[InAquaVeritas]

Thanks man! I'm so stoked on it! Have been envisioning this for well over a year and now I finally get a glimpse of what it will become!

They're Ikons, I checked today. Jeroen from VVM told me the same, I'm definitely going to refurbish these and use them.

Sounds like a sweet build you'll be doing, if you do a thread I'll subscribe for sure!
From the top of my head it's 11 mm off, but I will have to check all that again.
I have a fairly narrow tire as I want to have it look the same as the front, as both rims are 17". This way I can lose about 7 mm on the hub and keep the original rear and front sprocket, which will save cost in the future. Another thing that Jeroen taught me is to always customize the part that is replaced least. The guy is a legend, he built a diesel compactor motor (for roadworks and stuff) into a small frame and runs it off this whole custom set up. He builds engines for track racing as well. So happy to have him help me with this!
I can measure the width on my rear hub if you want, so you have something to go on. You might need to change out the rear swing arm, mine would never fit the rear wheel. The F series is different to a K there, so it might work. You would still have to fabricate a caliper mount.
The '04 ZX6R swing arm I used fits without modification, I can even use the original axle and use all original bearings. It also looks very simple, so it fits in well. This way you can go mono shock as well, there's a few around here as well, looks insane! I needed the space and liked the look of twin shocks.

Not sure what chain I will run, it will be colored to fit in with the rest of the theme. Have to look into that.

Looking forward to seeing what you will build! Good luck man!


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Tapatalk

[InAquaVeritas]

Looks great. You asked about custom wire looms etc. MotoGadget m-unit and/or their m-button makes re-wires very clean and easy. Also, you get some added functional benefits. Here's the headlight bucket after using the m-button.

Calj,

Sorry, don't want to hijack the thread, but do you know of any other similar multiplexers that are less costly? I think it is awesome but just don't have the money to buy one.   Possibly any alternatives to cleaning up the triangle?

I was wondering the same, because I've looked at the M-unit and the quality looks amazing but is very costly. Is there another brand you would recommend?

[calj737]

I don't know of anotheranufacturer akin to MotoGadget and their m-unit/m-button. To be clear, it's not a custom harness as you still either mend yours or re-wire to it. But doing so to their products is EXTREMELY easy and fool-proof Folsom a reliability perspective. That's partly why I'm so bullish on them.

[InAquaVeritas]

I haven't been able to find another that's a lot cheaper, apart from Ultima, it comes in at around $140,-. I know someone who used it and it works well, I just have to figure out if this will work for me.
Might invest in an M-unit as I will be doing this bike top to bottom (apart from powder coating the frame and wheels), so not having any troubles with the electrics is well worth it!

[calj737]

Some of the "benefits" of the M-Unit are:
Each function is isolated into a separately fused circuit (L&R indicators, Hi/Low, Start, etc)
Programmable functionality like: auto cancel turn signals, flashing stop lifht, fade to bright stop, etc.
Low voltage Warning (indicators flash when key is active, horn chirps once)
Built in relays

And so on. Don't know whether it makes electrics more reliable, but certainly easier to wire from scratch and much easier to troubleshoot.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks man! I'm so stoked on it! Have been envisioning this for well over a year and now I finally get a glimpse of what it will become!

They're Ikons, I checked today. Jeroen from VVM told me the same, I'm definitely going to refurbish these and use them.

Sounds like a sweet build you'll be doing, if you do a thread I'll subscribe for sure!
From the top of my head it's 11 mm off, but I will have to check all that again.
I have a fairly narrow tire as I want to have it look the same as the front, as both rims are 17". This way I can lose about 7 mm on the hub and keep the original rear and front sprocket, which will save cost in the future. Another thing that Jeroen taught me is to always customize the part that is replaced least. The guy is a legend, he built a diesel compactor motor (for roadworks and stuff) into a small frame and runs it off this whole custom set up. He builds engines for track racing as well. So happy to have him help me with this!
I can measure the width on my rear hub if you want, so you have something to go on. You might need to change out the rear swing arm, mine would never fit the rear wheel. The F series is different to a K there, so it might work. You would still have to fabricate a caliper mount.
The '04 ZX6R swing arm I used fits without modification, I can even use the original axle and use all original bearings. It also looks very simple, so it fits in well. This way you can go mono shock as well, there's a few around here as well, looks insane! I needed the space and liked the look of twin shocks.

Not sure what chain I will run, it will be colored to fit in with the rest of the theme. Have to look into that.

Looking forward to seeing what you will build! Good luck man!


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Tapatalk

Thanks mate, I'll keep an eye out for a swingarm like yours, I can weld aluminium, so I'll fab up some shock mounts like yours, as I like the look of twin shocks, and I've got a set of Koni's sitting in a box. Cheers, Terry.

[InAquaVeritas]

Some of the "benefits" of the M-Unit are:
Each function is isolated into a separately fused circuit (L&R indicators, Hi/Low, Start, etc)
Programmable functionality like: auto cancel turn signals, flashing stop lifht, fade to bright stop, etc.
Low voltage Warning (indicators flash when key is active, horn chirps once)
Built in relays

And so on. Don't know whether it makes electrics more reliable, but certainly easier to wire from scratch and much easier to troubleshoot.

I'm going to make my electrics as simple as possible, although I will be using LED blinkers which will need some special resistors and stuff but that's a small job. Mainly I want a switch and fuse box thats tough and reliable, I will contact my mate who uses it to see what his experiences are. It will save me about $200,- compared to the M-Unit.

[EDIT]
I just noticed the V.2 M-unit has a built in alarm system, which I wanted to install anyways, so I might save money using the M-Unit. The plot thickens...

[InAquaVeritas]

Thanks mate, I'll keep an eye out for a swingarm like yours, I can weld aluminium, so I'll fab up some shock mounts like yours, as I like the look of twin shocks, and I've got a set of Koni's sitting in a box. Cheers, Terry.

Hey Terry, some bad and some good news. Last week I found out there was some miscommunication between my fabricator and me. This swing arm at stock length will make it handle like a drag bike and, unless you dragrace, sucks. There's two options I'm looking at now: shortening the ZX6R arm or using a CBR600 PC31 arm (which has pretty much stock K length) with some slight mods.

[InAquaVeritas]

Last week I found out I #$%*ed up with the swing arm because of a miscommunication with my fabricator.

I started a thread with general info on fork and swing arm swaps, because there is scattered info on the web, but it took me weeks to figure it out and realised after getting some comments to that post I needed to re-asses some work I (had) done. This is that thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=142985.msg1623485#msg1623485

The ZX6R swing arm, which I was under the assumption would work, is waaaaaay too long. About 10 cm/4" from stock F length, which is already about 2,5 cm/1" longer than the stock K arm. The original F1 arm is 43,5 cm heart pivot axle to centre of wheel axle slots.
The handling would be like riding a full drag bike and it wouldn't want to corner at speed or even stay up at slow speeds.

After some searching we came up with two options (starting point is the ZX6R arm with shocks mounts and pivot axle mods):
Option 1: Shortening the ZX6R arm by grinding off the axle blocks at the end, shortening the straight box section and welding the blocks back in. Shortening the shock mounts to stop the tail from lifting up and changing the steering head angle. (This works if the construction of the arm is in fact two axle blocks in a box frame, if not, money well spent on warming the air)

Option 2: Using a CBR600 PC31 arm. It's 41 cm/16.14" from pivot axle to centre slot. This would be an ideal length if it wasn't for the fact my offset has been reduced slightly to compensate for about 2,5 cm/1" loss in shock length. With the original offset, this arm will be the same length as a stock K arm from what I could find on this forum.
The ID at the wheel axle is 23 cm/9", the OD at the pivot axle is 23,5 cm/9,25". Depending on the way that pivot point is made it might fit, can't say for sure right now.

More info to come as soon I know if it will be option one or two.

[InAquaVeritas]

Also, I have thought of a name! Surprise surprise, I can't decide between two ideas.

#1
The tank will get a big portrait on it, details will follow, and this bike has been like a drug for me. It's my first one and I was addicted from the first turn of the key. I work and surf in Spain a lot and I love Spain and Spanish, so this gave me the idea of La Heroína meaning both heroine and heroin.

#2
F-Up. Dealing with very serious ADHD I have a loooooong history of #$%* ups, because poor impulse control (gauging frame rails with grinder), poor planning (bought and modded swing arm, found it doesn't work), poor concentration (can't focus for too long). Along with my bike being a model F I found it suiting.

Not sure where to got yet, but it will become more clear as I go.

[Retro Rocket]

Watch out if modifying the arm from the adjuster block end, look at the curves at the inside front of the arm, you can run out of width pretty easily and still no get the correct length...., Early GSXR 1100 arms, or even the 750 arms {1100 is beefier} are great for these mods as the bolt straight in with no mods to width, they are easily modified from either end as they are a reinforced box design..
Here's a modified GSXR750 arm on a 500 race bike...



Here's a picture of my modified 1100 arm, its cat at the adjuster end and is slightly too long, the curve at the inside front limited what could be removed from the rear, I'm going to have another 30mm removed from the pivot end, should have gone that way in the first place, notice the monoshock section removed and rebraced...

[InAquaVeritas]

Watch out if modifying the arm from the adjuster block end, look at the curves at the inside front of the arm, you can run out of width pretty easily and still no get the correct length...., Early GSXR 1100 arms, or even the 750 arms {1100 is beefier} are great for these mods as the bolt straight in with no mods to width, they are easily modified from either end as they are a reinforced box design..

[...]its cat at the adjuster end and is slightly too long, the curve at the inside front limited what could be removed from the rear, I'm going to have another 30mm removed from the pivot end, should have gone that way in the first place, notice the monoshock section removed and rebraced...

First of all: that 500 looks amazing!!! I'm usually not into the classic racers with a fairing, but for this I'd make an exception.

I'm so happy with all this input, makes me more relaxed about my build! The ZX6R arm has enough straight box section to cut it down to the correct length without changing the geometry, but I do have the same brace/shockmount problem. It will need to be cut out and welded and braced back in.This one also fits in without too much work: the ZX6R pivot axle can be modified to act as a sleeve, retaining the original bearings and dimensions on the pivot.

Another possibility is the CBR600 arm, which would only need minor work at the pivot and twin shock mounts (if needed). Since I already have a ZX6R arm that is made to fit, it's cheaper to modify it further instead of starting over.

Why remove another 30mm at the pivot? Is it still too long still? You said you should've started with that, why is that?

[Retro Rocket]

I should have started at the pivot end because the whole monoshock section has to be removed, making it east to remove the pivot section and shortening the arm from the front, I could only have as much as the arm would limit taken from the rear leaving it still about 20-30mm {would have to measure again} too long, it would have been better to have it all removed at the front, as you get closer to the pivot end the swingarm becomes thinner to clear the frame, removing everything from the rear puts the wheel closer to the swingarm, if i would have removed length from the front of the arm I could have used a 5.5 inch rim , now i'm limited to the 4.5/4.25 inch rim with very tight clearance....  Did i explain that well enough...?

[Retro Rocket]

One thing i left out, after welding an aluminum swingarm it should be heat treated to retain its original strength, nothing is as simple as it looks...

[InAquaVeritas]

Reading all the info around here, I'm thinking there's more than a few qualified people on here to make a series of books about customization in line with Hondamans amazing book! That's the best and easiest explanation I've had so far. I didn't think past the fact it narrows towards the pivot and having to deal with less clearance. I wish I had my parts here so I could read this and look at it at the same time. Would make so much more sense right away!

As its looking right now, my ZX6R arm should be done Monday latest and the fenders will be made right after that, I can hopefully pick it up end of the week. I will post pictures, dimensions and additional info. Really wonder what you make of it RR!


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Tapatalk

[InAquaVeritas]

One thing i left out, after welding an aluminum swingarm it should be heat treated to retain its original strength, nothing is as simple as it looks...

That I had explained before, happy you mentioned it, because I didn't in my info thread!

I think "Nothing is as simple as it looks" should be every builders mantra and this websites motto. Best quote ever!


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Tapatalk

[Retro Rocket]

I'm no expert by any means mate, i've just been researching these mods for a very long time and talked to a few highly qualified people, a couple of them build vintage race bikes for the very competitive national series here in Australia, they run bigger tires and wheels and more modern suspension parts.. Here's a link to the motogp facebook page...

https://www.facebook.com/motogp.werks