Topic: New Battery. Went with the Lithium Variety.

[Lostboy Steve]

My good old fashioned Lead/Acid Battery has been very poor since last riding season. So bad that I actually was relying on the kick since august. I did notice that the battery was only filled about half way when I bought it. I'm sure if I added some electrolyte it would probably work fairly well but I digress. After scouring the internet and some local stores I decided to order the Deltran (maker of battery tender) Lithium Ion Phosphate deal. For the price, it seems well worth it. Will let everyone know how it works. Apparently they charge in way less time and require much less charging power, so for the 550 it might pay of well.

http://batterytender.com/products/batteries/lithium-iron-phosphate-battery-lifepo4-la-eq-10-14.html

[Bankerdanny]

One of the bike mags reviewed I think the Ballistic. They were very impressed. They said that the bike could sit for long periods of time without a tender on it and still have ample starting power. As prices come down it becomes hard to come up with a good reason not to make the change if you need a battery anyway. It's probably the simplest way there is to shave 5 or 6 pounds off your bike.

[Lostboy Steve]

One of the bike mags reviewed I think the Ballistic. They were very impressed. They said that the bike could sit for long periods of time without a tender on it and still have ample starting power. As prices come down it becomes hard to come up with a good reason not to make the change if you need a battery anyway. It's probably the simplest way there is to shave 5 or 6 pounds off your bike.

Yeah I saw the ballastic, but I wasn’t sure about the charging set-up. I think it has a proprietary charging port. The battery tender one seems to be SUPER light, and works with my 4 port battery tender. They claim up to a year without needing a charge, but again it all depends on parasitic draw and what not. Can't wait to get it, will post installed pics when it comes.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Looks like they recommend buying a lithium specific charger for these batteries.

[AJK]

I'd be interested to see if the lithium battery is fussy on charging requirements and how it goes on the sohc (especially given that they recommend a specific charger). I'm sure it will charge ok, but a real world testimony would be nice to hear from.
  Lead acid batteries don't care & are pretty forgiving when being charged up with fluctuating ripple voltage from the rectifier (they just soak it up). Lithiums may be fussier?? Would be interesting to see how everything works out long term.

Just checked out the link. Thats a pretty beefy battery at 240CCA and looks like its fairly universal. I'm sure you will have no drama's with it. Your sohc is probably a little lighter as well 

The good thing with the sohc is that we have a kick starter for backup that can get us out of trouble when the charge is low.

[Grinnin]

The manual for that battery says never charge above 14.8V.  When I put an AGM in my '75 750K, I also turned down the charge voltage.  It's the screw that bears against the return spring for the contact arm -- less pressure on the spring equals lower voltage.  All my bikes wear voltage displays.

It also says to not discharge below 8V but that should be easier.

As long as you stay within these voltages the battery should be fine. 

[Old Scrambler]

and they mean NEVER................My friend is an electrical engineer and specialized in back-up battery and charging systems for the communications industry. He recently told to be prepared for a significant lightning-bolt if the battery is overcharged.

I use a Ballistic unit on my Bonneville Salt-Flats landspeed racer with good results. But that is a total-loss system.

[andrewk]

My experience (anti gravity and ballistic) is that these new batteries are pretty damn fickle about both over AND under voltage.  And they should have a lithium specific (digital signal)  battery charger.  What that means for 40 year old bikes is that you really need to have your charging system working properly, and you really should have a solid state regulator/rectifier at the least to help the charge at idle if you ride stop and go on a smaller four.

Or, run total loss and stop before you go under 8v, but on the street that's no fun.

Another consideration is that these batteries have a pretty small capacitance relative to lead acid or agm types. Potential issues there if you want to ride long distance on otherwise stock electrics. 

Overall I think a 300 dollar investment (battery plus charger)  is a bit much for the return, unless you're racing, especially given how fickle these have been for me.

All that said, if you follow the instructions and recommendations exactly, the batteries seem to last.  Just remember that they are unforgiving when it comes to under and over voltage.

[andrewk]

Also, as grinnin mentions, a voltage display added to the bike is a great addition, no matter what kind of battery you have, but you can save your LiFepo type battery if you catch a discharge/overcharge situation right away.

[scottly]

but a real world testimony would be nice to hear from.
 

I've had my 4 cell LiFe battery for 3 years now on my kick-only bike with no problems. I did change to a solid state regulator, but I do not use a special charger or battery tender. YMMV...

[AJK]

Not wanting to flip topics, but check this out.

In the years to come, we might end up going to the world of ultra caps.

This guy has installed them in his car. If his account is true, this is quite impressive. Good weight saving too.

Replacing My Car Battery with Capacitors! 12V BoostPack Update

[Lostboy Steve]

Looks like they recommend buying a lithium specific charger for these batteries.

Yes, I checked with battery tender tho and they said it will be fine.

[andrewk]

but a real world testimony would be nice to hear from.
 

I've had my 4 cell LiFe battery for 3 years now on my kick-only bike with no problems. I did change to a solid state regulator, but I do not use a special charger or battery tender. YMMV...

I think this brings up another potential concern about these batteries.  Electric starters are a high amp draw, and can pull a battery down below 8v pretty easy, especially if it doesn't start right up.

But also good that you're going the distance with yours.  I'm on year 2 with a couple ballistics in customer bikes, they are kick only too.

[andrewk]

Looks like they recommend buying a lithium specific charger for these batteries.

Yes, I checked with battery tender tho and they said it will be fine.

Better to listen to the battery manufacturer rather than battery tender, imo.  Use of a regular charger is fine if you watch the voltage, and make sure the automatic trickle features don't actually over charge the battery.

Battery tender may well be right, but make sure, cause it doesn't take much to toast one of these, and there's no warranty for cell damage,  as per the fine print. YMMV of course.

[Lostboy Steve]

Looks like they recommend buying a lithium specific charger for these batteries.

Yes, I checked with battery tender tho and they said it will be fine.

Better to listen to the battery manufacturer rather than battery tender, imo.  Use of a regular charger is fine if you watch the voltage, and make sure the automatic trickle features don't actually over charge the battery.

Battery tender may well be right, but make sure, cause it doesn't take much to toast one of these, and there's no warranty for cell damage,  as per the fine print. YMMV of course.

If you read my original post you would know that the battery in question is a Battery Tender Brand Battery.

[andrewk]

That serves me right for not rereading the whole thing.  Carry on!

[Mooshie]

One of the bike mags reviewed I think the Ballistic. They were very impressed. They said that the bike could sit for long periods of time without a tender on it and still have ample starting power. As prices come down it becomes hard to come up with a good reason not to make the change if you need a battery anyway. It's probably the simplest way there is to shave 5 or 6 pounds off your bike.

+1 I have had a Ballistic battery on my bike (550) for about 3 years now.  I go on super long rides at a stretch (4000+) and then don't jump back on poor Dash for months and months.  I never keep him on a tender and he always starts right up (well not with a kickstart-I would pass out first--but never more than 2 tries on the electric starter).  I love this battery--far better than the acid cell one which drove me crazy with having to add distilled water while I was riding across Nevada and Utah.  Got rid of that the minute I returned from that ride. 

[Lostboy Steve]

That serves me right for not rereading the whole thing.  Carry on!

It's all good brother.

[Lostboy Steve]

One of the bike mags reviewed I think the Ballistic. They were very impressed. They said that the bike could sit for long periods of time without a tender on it and still have ample starting power. As prices come down it becomes hard to come up with a good reason not to make the change if you need a battery anyway. It's probably the simplest way there is to shave 5 or 6 pounds off your bike.

+1 I have had a Ballistic battery on my bike (550) for about 3 years now.  I go on super long rides at a stretch (4000+) and then don't jump back on poor Dash for months and months.  I never keep him on a tender and he always starts right up (well not with a kickstart-I would pass out first--but never more than 2 tries on the electric starter).  I love this battery--far better than the acid cell one which drove me crazy with having to add distilled water while I was riding across Nevada and Utah.  Got rid of that the minute I returned from that ride.

Did you change out any parts of your charging system? I think as advised in this thread I might order up a rick's regulator. I don't know my system seems to charge well, I can't imagine what would happen if by accident you left your key on or something. I mean, IT NEVER HAPPENS, until that ONE day that it does. I'll be honest, I'm somewhat regretting this now. Btw apparently using this battery for a snowmobile is a bad idea as well.

Anyway, As Per The Instruction manual.

USAGE
a) There are a couple of damaging conditions for any Lithium starter battery,
they include prolong storage in high temperatures and allowing the battery
to be deeply discharged.
b) Compared to lead-acid batteries, the Battery Tender® Lithium battery has
less than 5% the average self-discharge rate and can be stored for much
longer periods without maintenance.
c) If there is no current draw from your vehicle when your ignition is off the
Battery Tender® Lithium battery can be stored for one year without
damage.
d) For long term storage the ideal temperature is 1ºC (34ºF).
e) The battery should be stored in a minimum charge state of 70%.
f) DO NOT use the battery in temperatures below -10ºC (14ºF).
CHARGING
a) Do not use a desulphation or pulse charger, doing so will damage the
battery and void the warranty.
b) Standard lead-acid chargers may be used, as long as they do not exceed
14.8Volts during charging.
c) Maximum charge rate is 10Amps.
d) It is strongly recommended the use of a lithium specific charger such as
the units in the Battery Tender® Lithium Charger series.
e) Do not allow the lithium battery to discharge below 8Volts as this will
damage the battery and void the warranty.
f) Do not charge the battery in temperatures below -10ºC (14ºF).

[Mooshie]

I have the OEM harness, no change in charging system whatsoever.  Just put it on and off I went.  I did upgrade to hondaman fuse holder and transistorized ignition but other than that all OEM.

[Lostboy Steve]

Yes, I did the hm ignition mod as well. So you installed a Rick's?

[JoeP]

Another thing to be aware of is that these batteries hate cold. I run a Shorai variety on my other bike (Ducati 749). On a particularly cold track day (in the 30s), the bike would not start until I "warmed up" the battery by running the headlight for a minute. I think letting the battery run under low load for a bit is what the manufacturer also recommends for cold weather. I won't be using one on my 550 until I make sure the charging system is working perfectly.

[Mooshie]

Yes, I did the hm ignition mod as well. So you installed a Rick's?

A ricks?   I do not know that that is?  I installed the red Ballistic battery (is that vague enough for you? ha ha)  One of the best changes to OEM I ever did--works great on my 550

[wowbagger]

I assume he meant a Rick's Motorsports Reg/Rec combo, like this one:

http://4into1.com/ricks-motorsport-electrics-honda-rectifier-regulator-combo-cb350-cb400-cb500-cb550-cb750/

[Mooshie]

No. Still have the OEM one that came with my sweet 1976 550.  I just literally put in the battery and went on my merry way.

Thank you for clarifying wowbagger