Topic: Kids and the Future...

[GroovieGhoulie]

I wonder about having kids in these times. I mean WHY?


Put aside the financial drain that kids bring
Put aside the sacrifices you have to make for kids
Put aside the fact that you have to "grow up" to be a parent


Look at the world: We're effectively living in the dystopian future that so many authors wrote about. Increased governmental power, loss of rights, the economy held up by toothpicks on the edge of collapse, unchecked 3rd World immigration destroying the country, massive deficit spending, schools are like prisons, government in people's lives like CRAZY, the rise of foreign powers that are (successfully) challenging America's #1 Superpower status, (FWIW, I believe the Chinese are going to eat our lunch. If the 20th Century was the American Century, then the 21st century will be the Chinese century), etc, etc. Why bring kids into such a #$%*ty world? The generation born since the turn of the century, I believe, WILL live to see the death of the West, as it were, and will be the first American generation to have a LOWER standard of living than their parents.

Grim stuff, yet people are popping kids out everyday. Why? What's the motivation? Do people really not see the world as it is, or do they just not care?

Bear in mind I am pretty much a "Glass is Half-Empty" kinda guy, but I still can't see any positives to growing up in these times. We are living in the decline of a civilization, and life is just going to get worse and worse. Watch.

I just can't see subjecting an innocent life to such horrors.

[dusterdude]

ghoulie,brother you are a few years behind me,i got married in 1983 and said i wasnt having kids for alot of the same reasons.

[Bob Wessner]

Well you make some very good points. I often wonder about similar things from time to time. I have only one child, a daughter, she now has two boys. All you need to do is spend some time with them and you know the answer to "why?" Besides, there is a chance among them (the next generation) there will be a few capable leaders who will change all this.  At least you have to keep hoping. 

[upperlake04]

What's the motivation?

when all the frills are removed from the big questions - why am I here? and what is the point to life?  I believe there is only one answer  - because it is your biological duty to your species  IMHO

[putnaja1]

I wonder about having kids in these times. I mean WHY?


Put aside the financial drain that kids bring
Put aside the sacrifices you have to make for kids
Put aside the fact that you have to "grow up" to be a parent


Look at the world: We're effectively living in the dystopian future that so many authors wrote about.

I used to be glass-is-half empty..  It WILL ruin your life to think that way..  Don't believe the hype- it's no where near as bad as the sensationalist, "lets sell news by scaring people" media reports it to be.

Look outside your door man, find a tree, look at some birds, take a deep breath.  We are all gonna be OK.

As for the why even bother to have children question, which is besides the obvious terrible negatives you list, all I can say is, it is clear you don't have kids- cause you just don't get it.  Once you have kids, the "sacrifices" and "financial drain" is all bull#$%*.  Dude, I am happy I can provide for my family- and I do whatever it takes so that my family has a better way around than I have.  As for the "fact that I HAVE to grow up", that's crap too- my daughter has helped me to rediscover youth in ways that I never enjoyed it when I was her age..  You can be young with your kids if you allow it.

Increased governmental power, loss of rights, the economy held up by toothpicks on the edge of collapse,

Hold it right there chief:  What is your proof that the economy is on the verge of collapse?  That is complete nonsense.  I, my wife, and almost everyone in our neighborhood has a car <3 years old.  Myself and most people I know have purchased a home within the last 5 years (major housing boom).  All of the folks driving in Humvees, Escalades, fancy cars, motorcycles (as a recreation vehicle, 'cause they have a car too) tells me there is no shortage of money- despite the "gas crisis" I keep hearing about.  I have not had to wait in line at a gas station, I have always been able to afford fuel.  The government does not impose on my lifestyle whatsoever

unchecked 3rd World immigration destroying the country, massive deficit spending, schools are like prisons, government in people's lives like CRAZY, the rise of foreign powers that are (successfully) challenging America's #1 Superpower status, (FWIW, I believe the Chinese are going to eat our lunch. If the 20th Century was the American Century, then the 21st century will be the Chinese century), etc, etc.

Unchecked illigal immigration is a problem, but it has not destroyed out country.  Of course other countries are going to challenge our superpower status- why should we be the only superpower- it's not healthy for us to remain so.  China is communist- they are not gonna eat our lunch, just like the russians never did.

Why bring kids into such a #$%*ty world? The generation born since the turn of the century, I believe, WILL live to see the death of the West, as it were, and will be the first American generation to have a LOWER standard of living than their parents.

Grim stuff, yet people are popping kids out everyday. Why? What's the motivation? Do people really not see the world as it is, or do they just not care?

I have it better now than I did when I lived with my parents- far better.  YOU make the decisions on what kind of life YOU will lead, not government, not society, not China.  I go out and work my ass off, and I get paid.  That's how I'm livin.  Are you suggesting that we are all too stupid to see the end of the world, and if we really knew what we were doing, we'd have no kids, and just buy up guns, booze, and motorcycles?  You're livin in a dark fantasy world brother.

Bear in mind I am pretty much a "Glass is Half-Empty" kinda guy, but I still can't see any positives to growing up in these times. We are living in the decline of a civilization, and life is just going to get worse and worse. Watch.

I just can't see subjecting an innocent life to such horrors.

I mean no disrespect to you- but if you feel this negative about life in general (what's the point type thinking) why not seriously look into getting some help?  You can't live life to the fullest thinking it's all doom and gloom.  I'd hate to think that you might miss out on the most wonderful and profound experience in having children, because you just see it as a drain.

Jason

[nickjtc]

What putnaja and upperlake said, ditto.

It sounds lame, but until you've had kids, with all of the attendant joys and sadnesses, and ups and downs that go with it, you cannot be complete. Children make us better people. I was a single dad for a while; those years were part of what makes me who I am today.

A recent thread talked about the legacy we want to leave behind. Without children the legacy ends.

If you feel unhappy about where you live, move. Although we share borders, life here in Canada is a different experience.

Go for a long road trip on your bike, to nowhere in particular. Ride back roads. Visit museums. Get off and look at the leaves falling. Think positive and all of the reasons for being alive will fall into place. All the reasons to have children will become clear.

[mennedy]

Why?

Because they are the only ones we can hope will fix our mess!

Because they teach us unconditional love - it gives a different "perspective" on our lives.

Because when I am unable to do battle, someone is able to carry on.

Because they are the most fun a man can have.

The rest means nothing.

[nickjtc]

Because when I am unable to do battle, someone is able to carry on.

Amen to that.

[DRam]

I am supposed to be the world's leading pessimist, but do believe you have just taken the crown away from me.

We have four children and ten grandchildren with another on the way and I see plenty of good for them in the future.  So far three of my children are doing much better than the wife and I were at their age and stage of life.  The youngest is where we were as a young family - struggling but coming up in the world.  Three own their own homes, one just moved to major city in the southwest and is renting until he and his wife can scout the area and find the house they want.  

Our government does seem to be turning toward controlling everything, especially since 9-11.  But if you look back you will find that the same series of events took place during every war.  Laws were passed that suspended freedoms, the government was given greater authority, and a sort of paranoia took over throughout the country.  Were you around during the Vietnam War?  Citizens were spied on, dossiers of suspected protesters were kept on file, the FBI  and CIA made sure they knew who was involved in every demonstration.   Once that war was past, things returned to normal.  It took time, and it will this time also.  As soon as we're out of Iraq and have settled things with terrorist groups things will settle down.  If not the voters of this country will elect a government that will settle it down.  That's what democracy is all about and I have great faith in it.

As for China, they may catch or surpass us in economic development and that may be good.  Even though the government is communist there seems to be a lot of capitalism in their economic strategy.  As a middle class becomes more powerful and an upperclass that wields economic power becomes stronger I expect to see some changes in China's government also.  Where wealth goes, power goes.   Whether China can surpass us on the world stage remains to be seen.  The real danger to our economy and way of life are big corporations that control our government and its fiscal policies, which seem to be driving a trend toward weakening the middle class.  At present, though, there are still opportunities for those with the drive and wisdom to succeed.  Perhaps a change in administrations will begin to turn things around.  (See, I can be optomistic)

I've got to admit there were times when the family was young that we wondered how we were going to make it through.  We sacrificed 'things' for our kids and we had to grow up - well I had to anyway.  The wife was way ahead of me there.   It was tough at times, but worth every minute of it even then.  Now that we're older the rewards are great.  That old saw, "Grandchildren are your reward for not strangling your teenagers," is true.  

That all said, having a family is a highly personal decision, one you and your wife will have to make together.  Good luck with your decision.

[tsflstb]

I was you two years ago.  Friends were having kids, but my wife and I were both working good jobs and just wondered WHY?  We took nice vacations, were making double payments to our mortgage and had no real debt. 

Two years later I've got a 2 year old and a 2 month old daughter.  My wife made the decision to leave a great career to be a stay at home mom.  Our income was cut in half.  Her sporty new Lexus was traded in for a used minivan.  I moved 42 miles away from my workplace to get in the best school districts and neighborhoods we could afford.  I get about 4 hours sleep a night right now.  Diapers, feedings, tantrums...and the kids get out of line sometimes too.  

We would do it all again in a heartbeat.  When my 2 year old reaches out for my hand to help her, or my 2 month old cracks a smile for the first time nothing else matters.  Nothing.

I am nervous that someday we'll have a world in more turmoil than we have now.   All you can do is live your life and be a good man that your children can look up to.  We could all go tomorrow, so I just try to be a good father today.

Of course, I do have a vasectomy scheduled in a couple of weeks.  If you want more than two kids, you're freakin' crazy.

[ofreen]

I wonder about having kids in these times. I mean WHY?

 Why bring kids into such a #$%*ty world? The generation born since the turn of the century, I believe, WILL live to see the death of the West, as it were, and will be the first American generation to have a LOWER standard of living than their parents.
Grim stuff, yet people are popping kids out everyday. Why? What's the motivation? Do people really not see the world as it is, or do they just not care?

Because it serves the little turds right.

Seriously, it seems to me every generation thinks the world is going to hell in a handbasket, as they used to say. I've come to the conclusion that it is a good thing we grow old and die, because most of us wouldn't like what the world changes into, and would just be #$%*ing about it all the time, and being a general PITA.

[nickjtc]

I get about 4 hours sleep a night right now.  Diapers, feedings, tantrums...and the kids get out of line sometimes too.  

Of course, I do have a vasectomy scheduled in a couple of weeks.  If you want more than two kids, you're freakin' crazy.

Trouble is, you blink twice and they're graduating high school!

Snip, snip, no risk of more sprogs (been there, done that)....but make sure that you really do not want any more!

[eldar]

You all have to remember that ghoulie is in his early 20s. A that age, how many of us were thinking about kids?

Hell when I was 28 I was not thinking about having kids. But then it happened and according to everyone that knows me, I slipped into the roll of "dad" very well. I got 2 daughters and they are the best things ever. I willingly work 3 jobs and about 70 hours a week to make sure they have a decent place to live and food and whatever they need, I dont give them whatever they want though! I dont care what anyone says, the best thing in the world is when I come home and they both come running to the door to see me. THERE IS NOTHING LIKE IT IN THE WORLD! If I had to, I would even stop riding motorcycle and not even take a second look back.

I remember the whole legacy thing. The true measure of your legacy wont be how many people know you or how famous you were, none of that crap. It is how well you raise your kids and how THEY remember you. There is NOTHING that compares with being a parent and there is nothing as important. Except doing good for the world as a whole, such as Mr. Irwin.

[Bob Wessner]

The true measure of your legacy wont be how many people know you or how famous you were, none of that crap. It is how well you raise your kids and how THEY remember you.

We'll have to get Glenn to add a "thumbs up" icon for replies. If we had it, I would have used it here.

[nickjtc]

the best thing in the world is when I come home and they both come running to the door to see me.

You're right about that. I'd forgotten about that daily experience...

[GroovieGhoulie]

Sorry for being a "Doom and Gloom", "Negative Nancy", whatever.  I just get wound up sometimes and have to vent.

My negative outlook is changing, but most of my friends were/are survivalist types who were planning on Y2K happening (remember those days?) and read all the books that we're at peak oil and about to be forced into a pre-20th century living standard, the US economy is on the brink, we're at the edge of world war, etc. etc.

They send me articles written by economists and financial types that indicate the housing bubble is about to burst, Greenspan kept the economy artifically inflated via the low interest rate and that's about to bite us in the ass, that China owns approximately 40% of US debt and could ruin us economically by dumping their dollars on the world market for pennies, devaluing our currency and sending us into an economic tailspin that would make 1929 look like a cakewalk...well, when you read that stuff constantly, it wears on you.

Hell, listen to them and we're less than a month from living in the full-blown Mad Max post-apocalypse world!

Now while I have NO problem with shaving my hair into a mohawk, throwing on some assless chaps and racing up and down the highway on the Honda in the never-ending quest for GUZZALEEN, I don't want my (future) kids to have to live like that, you know? 

Also, I haven't been to my Therapist lately (my 400F).  I need a nice long ride today.  I think I'll go after work.

[nickjtc]

Also, I haven't been to my Therapist lately (my 400F).  I need a nice long ride today.  I think I'll go after work.

Do it! Soon!

And if China decided to do an economic nasty to the US, take solace from the fact that the repercussions would be felt around the world. So we'd all be in the same boat, brother!

[eldar]

This story seems to be pretty quite for some reason. Last night I heard on the radio that Chevron has found 15 BILLION barrels of oil in the gulf or mexico. That basically doubles the US reserves.

Also, more and more evidence is pointing to the earth producnig oil, not some dead plants and dinos. If you dont believe that, this oil field was found 7 miles below the ocean surface. You wont find dino crap that deep.

The really nice thing about this is that chevron is an AMERICAN company.

[seaweb11]

I'm still paying $700.00 a month  "child support"   for my 21 yr old.  "still in University"
My other 13yr old can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.
I haven't had a good holiday in years, but I think that has more to do with building a house.$$$$$

But here I sit at 4:30 wondering when the younger one will be home from her 2nd day of High School
I kind of miss her;)

The only thing I would change is (THE 1st WIFE)

seriously, there's the bus going by the house "Shes HOME".

[aptech77]

I wonder about having kids in these times. I mean WHY?


Put aside the financial drain that kids bring
Put aside the sacrifices you have to make for kids
Put aside the fact that you have to "grow up" to be a parent


Look at the world: We're effectively living in the dystopian future that so many authors wrote about. Increased governmental power, loss of rights, the economy held up by toothpicks on the edge of collapse, unchecked 3rd World immigration destroying the country, massive deficit spending, schools are like prisons, government in people's lives like CRAZY, the rise of foreign powers that are (successfully) challenging America's #1 Superpower status, (FWIW, I believe the Chinese are going to eat our lunch. If the 20th Century was the American Century, then the 21st century will be the Chinese century), etc, etc. Why bring kids into such a #$%*ty world? The generation born since the turn of the century, I believe, WILL live to see the death of the West, as it were, and will be the first American generation to have a LOWER standard of living than their parents.

Grim stuff, yet people are popping kids out everyday. Why? What's the motivation? Do people really not see the world as it is, or do they just not care?

Bear in mind I am pretty much a "Glass is Half-Empty" kinda guy, but I still can't see any positives to growing up in these times. We are living in the decline of a civilization, and life is just going to get worse and worse. Watch.

I just can't see subjecting an innocent life to such horrors.

How true! I second it all, the only thing I worry about is, who will spoon feed me when I can't feed myself. Who will put me in the ground, but carry my legacy on. 

[chrislib]

Like others have said, until you have them (kids I mean  ) you don`t really get it, at least I did`nt. I have three, twin 7 year old girls and a 10 year old boy. I felt the same way as you in alot of respects up until about a year ago. Last August 29th my son was diagnosed with Leukemia, while he is doing great (his cancer has been in remission for about 9-10 months) that little boy has taught ME more about life in the past year than I had learned on my own in the past 40. It kind of puts everything into perspective.

[STL Hawkeye]

How true! I second it all, the only thing I worry about is, who will spoon feed me when I can't feed myself. Who will put me in the ground, but carry my legacy on. 

Unfortunately, no one will spoon feed you.  When you're to old to eat Soylent Green on your own, you'll be taken to the place where you get to pick out the peaceful video of your choice and....well....you know the rest.

[74cb750]

When I got married my wife and I wanted 12 kids or more.
Unfortunately we only had 3, due to medical problems.

My father had 5, grand father had 17....there is a trend here.

And you know what? we all survived. No one went hungry/unclothed/unsheltered.
Some say "God will provide" but I believe God will provide you with the ability to
provide.
peace,
michel

[nickjtc]

Some say "God will provide" but I believe God will provide you with the ability to
provide.
peace,
michel

Amen, brother. God, or whatever higher being you believe in.

[toycollector10]

Jeeezz...I have two kids, 19 and 23, and you know what...they fill up my life and make me whole. Anyone can analyse to death why you shouldn't bring kids into the world but the young are the future for good or bad