Topic: Kids and the Future...

[toycollector10]

Jeez cafehonda, overanalyzed, overblown and over the top. I take it you have no children. You sound as if you are university educated, that is, educated beyond your own natural intelligence. Boom! Take that.....I'll take my two kids over your cynicism any day of the week.......

[Klark Kent]

"a chicken is just an eggs way of making another egg"
-my dad when i was 13

i guess he meant the purpose of life is life.

i have had a negative outlook since i can remember, but i will always see kids as more of a #$%* you to the evils of the world than a passive experience of releasing "innocent life" into a "world" that is a certain way- so long as you raise them to be a positive force.  lois and I have resolved to keep an eye out for a child that needs to be raised rather than create a new one.  there are many such children where we live, and we would take one in in a second if the situation called for it.  (not talking about kidnapping here, just organic adoption)  this comes from my negative outlook (the same one my dad was trying to talk me out of since i could be talked out) I see the world as nearly hopeless, a distant light at the end of that tunnel keeps me moving foward.  this light is based on a hope that one day we will all wake up different.  achieved by nothing short of a catastrophe that changes our perspective sufficiently for the type of changes that need to occur to occur.  that and then massive amounts of education, and not the crap they tried to pass off on me, i mean perfecting the art of critical thinking in children.  i am not religious but sometimes i think i get my world view (in part) from the bible- except i read it as a novel not a textbook.  to me the apocalypse is the author's statement of what i just said.  using the best production values of the time (words) the author of revelations conveys the catastrophe it will take for modern man to look at the world differently and usher in a "kingdom of god" (aka a world that doesnt seem so #$%*ty.)  but it leaves out the part about critical thinking.  at least i think it did, i was vrey young when i read revelations.  so we need to make that leap, cuz i dont know if jesus is really coming or if he was just a leitmotif.

our problem is symbolism is fluid while reality is not, and we dont speak reality we speak and see and hear symbolism. 

so it almost doesnt matter if you have kids or not- except to you, and maybe (tiny chance here) the world.  it certainly doesnt matter to these "innocent" lives you are worried about.  after all, they will not know any better than the life they live...   they will be happy sometimes and sad sometimes, they will laugh and cry and feel real joy and real pain-nomatter what world you bring them into.  some of the lowest "standards of living" are occupied by the most content people.  whos "standards" are these.  or is it the effect a child might have on your percieved freedom that scares you?  (which you also question the validity of in this post-post-apocalyptic orwellian lie-cycle we are engaged in?)
so do your part if you can, but otherwise just enjoy the ride.  just be a good chicken and make another egg... and remember, none of this is real... we could all be dreaming right now,... and when we wake up the hangover will be cosmic.
-KK

[Bob Wessner]

Thought provoking read. 

[nickjtc]

And another thread that should be condensed and published........

[JP]

One of these days I'm gonna show you up Klark, and really wright a killer post.  However, today is not that day- today I feel like being funny.  So here it is:

#1 reason for me to reproduce:  I feel that I am so cool that it would be an injustice to the world for me to hold back my essence.  By creating people with a little bit of me in their personality and looks, I have essintially made the world a better place.  If I where ugly and stupid, I would still probably make babies with the same thought process, because I would be stupid and unable to realize that I was a dummy because stupid people actually consider themselves smart or at least not stupid....usually.  Understand?  If not, then your probably stupid and are in fact reproducing for the dumbest reason of all....Reason #1. 

#2.  Lawn care.

JP

By the way,

[Klark Kent]

JP-

please do.  I often hate rereading my posts the morning after.  you see i have a problem.  unlike most people, when i drink excessively, i puke philosophy.  it would be nice to have someone else "show me up" on that one.  i just can't believe no one has told me to shove a sock in it. 

thanks guys
-KK

[Bob Wessner]

i just can't believe no one has told me to shove a sock in it.

Why, you're entitled.

[cafehonda]

Jeez cafehonda, overanalyzed, overblown and over the top. I take it you have no children. You sound as if you are university educated, that is, educated beyond your own natural intelligence. Boom! Take that.....I'll take my two kids over your cynicism any day of the week.......

You are correct, I have no children and that is no accident. While I have had plenty of opportunity and willing participants, I have exercised the due diligence not to procreate. As you can tell I don't have a very parental disposition. I lack the patience that is usually required to deal with kids on a long term basis. And yes I am educated, although I would disagree with your assessment that said education has eclipsed my intelligence. Did I make a visible error in logic or simply err in issuing an opinion that is in contradiction to your own? I don't see how it should have offended you as it wasn't directed at you. The thrust of my rant was simply to address the nature of Ghoulie's indirect manner of exercising his right to have opinions about the world we live in. If he wants to say something about the nature of our human condition, he doesn't have to come in the back door using concerns for the well-being of hypothetical children. Just out with it,man. What gets my hackles up are the self absorbed and self involved attitudes of parents. I guess I'm fortunate to have friends whose kids are well behaved and whose attitudes and interests haven't been turned upside down and inside out because they made a reasonable facsimile of themselves. I lose my patience with people who believe that I can't be fullfilled unless I breed. These always seem to be the same people who can find no fault with their offspring and are perpetually impressed with the inane attributes of same. I'm sure that having children is very PERSONALLY rewarding, but so is creating art or accomplishing personal bests in athletics or myriad other activities. In fact, I would suggest that making a child is no more difficult than falling down. Millions of people do it every year without even trying. Raising a proper child, however, is an entirely different matter. I trust you are making every effort to do so. Far too many people are not. And, by all means , take your children over my cynicism, any day and everyday. As you can see, I have no children to make me interesting; my cynicism is all I've really got. How's that for overblown?

[ofreen]

Having kids ain't for everyone.  Anyway, it's not like there is a shortage of people.

[Buber]

I lose my patience with people who believe that I can't be fullfilled unless I breed.

Well, well, let me use a little example - I'm a total non-drinker. Not even beer. I used to work in a hotel, and became good friends with a barman. And as we came to the topic of drinking, and I started my phylosophy about why not to drink, etc, and he says - "have you ever been drunk?" I say NO, so he goes "so stop this bull** because you don't know hat you are talking about" And after a moment of thought I got promptly drunk. Not that I liked the experience, but IMHO, you shouldn't say what you say above unless you are a parent. Honestly, before having kids I was visualizing them as little crawling & stinking problems. Then something unplanned happend and i became a father, and I DON"T regret it.

OK, share with us your opinions, but another analogy - would you like to discuss valve or carb adjustment with somebody who just heard lots of opinions, or seen few mechanics doing it? OK, maybe you would, but would you respect the views on the topic of such man? I hope you would, if you expect parents to respect your views.

I will repeat what I said before - I wish I could come back to this topic some 20 yrs from now, and see what changed in your opinions about the world and the kids.   

Best Regards!

[eldar]

Cafe, art is NOTHING like kids. Music is nothing like kids. I have done painting and played music and sure it feels good, but it is short-lived and not nearly as rewarding as raising a child and watching them grow and seeing all their firsts. As you do not have kids, you are not equipped to comment and actually be taken seriously for the simple reason that you have NO experience. Sorry but baby sitting your younger brother or sister is not the same.  how do you know you lack the patience? I never thought I would have kids. I never thought I could do it. Yeah well you know what they say, "you never know till you try". If you dont want to try, then dont, but that desicion renders you unqualified to make a judgement on the matter. You are about as qualified as a person off the street being told to pilot a jet, that has never done it before.

You seem to try an talk lie you know whats going on, give it a few years, if you actually remember this, you will really feel dumb for assuming too much.

Just remember, you have all these "willing partertners" as you say, you could knock up one of them at anytime, unless you are gay of course.  Are you prepared for that? Then maybe you should start. Rubbers dont always work and my opinion of you and others opinion of you, would drop WAY DOWN if you were to skip out on said "willing partner".

[nickjtc]

You are correct, I have no children and that is no accident. While I have had plenty of opportunity and willing participants, I have exercised the due diligence not to procreate.

But in your own way you are 'parenting'.......by your passion for these motorcycles we all ride, inanimate as they are, you are expending time, money and energy, three things directly involved with parenting. I'm sure that you would feel just as bad if your bike fell over and got dinged as we did/do when one of our kids scraped their knee. Meataphorically speaking, like it or not, you are a parent.

[Bob Wessner]

You are correct, I have no children and that is no accident. While I have had plenty of opportunity and willing participants, I have exercised the due diligence not to procreate.

But in your own way you are 'parenting'.......by your passion for these motorcycles we all ride, inanimate as they are, you are expending time, money and energy, three things directly involved with parenting. I'm sure that you would feel just as bad if your bike fell over and got dinged as we did/do when one of our kids scraped their knee. Metaphorically speaking, like it or not, you are a parent.

Interesting take, but no, if you are a parent and the kids misbehave, you may not part them out on eBay. 

[upperlake04]

  thats a good one Bob

[eldar]

Are you sure? I bet there is a black market section on ebay to be found. Look at some of the prices we pay for parts!

[Klark Kent]

baby parts would be really spensive.  and sandcast baby parts, forget about it.
-KK

[nickjtc]

You guys are too funny!

[cafehonda]

Cafe, art is NOTHING like kids. Music is nothing like kids. I have done painting and played music and sure it feels good, but it is short-lived and not nearly as rewarding as raising a child and watching them grow and seeing all their firsts. As you do not have kids, you are not equipped to comment and actually be taken seriously for the simple reason that you have NO experience. Sorry but baby sitting your younger brother or sister is not the same.  how do you know you lack the patience? I never thought I would have kids. I never thought I could do it. Yeah well you know what they say, "you never know till you try". If you don't want to try, then don't, but that decision renders you unqualified to make a judgement on the matter. You are about as qualified as a person off the street being told to pilot a jet, that has never done it before.

You seem to try an talk lie you know whats going on, give it a few years, if you actually remember this, you will really feel dumb for assuming too much.

Just remember, you have all these "willing partners" as you say, you could knock up one of them at anytime, unless you are gay of course.  Are you prepared for that? Then maybe you should start. Rubbers don't always work and my opinion of you and others opinion of you, would drop WAY DOWN if you were to skip out on said "willing partner".

   When you're right you're right. I'll shut up about kids. Can't say the same for parents though. You see, just once I'd like to find a parent that can engage in a conversation that doesn't revolve around their progeny. Everywhere I go it's all about the kids. And while I'm sure they are proud of them, can't they enjoy some part of a life that is separate from their children. And now it's starting to be about the grandbabies. So as you see , I doubt I will look back on my silly opinions in a few years and think about how dumb I am.
      What really makes me sad is that if someone disagrees with the prevailing mentality of the herd there must be something wrong with them. Surely if I don't agree that parenting is the most rewarding thing a person can do, I must be too young to know any better, too stupid to actually get it done, too ugly and wretched for it to be a possibility, certainly too irresponsible to shoulder the burden should situation arise or, most galling , a flaming homosexual. I thought my posts were well thought and tried to steer an intelligent, if disagreeable, course. Perhaps there just isn't room in this world for anything other than the party line.
     I've always approached this site with the utmost respect and tried to be positive when the situation warrants.  Never wanted to attack or defame anyone who didn't throw themselves out there to be beaten.
Always researched the facts ahead of time, so as not to waste anyone's time. I guess I still will, but I'll be a little more reluctant to call it like I see it. It's just not worth it, which is, I guess, what everybody really wants.
No offense meant and certainly none taken.

[ofreen]

.... but I'll be a little more reluctant to call it like I see it. It's just not worth it, which is, I guess, what everybody really wants.
No offense meant and certainly none taken.

It sounds like you've taken some offense, though, and that's a shame.  But nobody really jumped on you all that hard, so in my opinion you ought to keep saying what you think.  It would be boring if everyone agreed with each other.  Who'd think a thread about ankle biters would go 5 pages on a motorcycle forum?

[Jeff]

This thread interests me because I just became a father for the first time just two months ago.

I can have a conversation about bikes all day long. But there is absolutely NOTHING in this world that compares when you first see a little baby that you helped create. Even at the end of a night where all my baby daughter does is cry, when I go and check on her sleeping, I can't get over how precious she is. Watching a four day old baby smile for the first time, listening to her have a conversation with me, even if it's just "Agoo", watching her notice her hands for the first time, and even ripping a big nasty fart that puts mine to shame... it's all absolutely priceless.

Besides, someday, you'll get to teach your kid to ride. This is a buddy of mine's 7 year old son.

Jeff

[Bob Wessner]

Congratulations!

[eldar]

the youngster is even on a honda!

[74cb750]

I'll bet it's a SOHC too!

[Jeff]

I'll bet it's a SOHC too!

As a matter of fact, it is a SOHC Honda!

[toycollector10]

Each to their own, I mean no offence with any of my posts. I too get a little pissed in the "wee" hours, it chills me down after a good ride, like today.

I am doing all the bike thing and love it. I'm meeting lots of people and having lots of fun and I get my adrenaline pumping all the time. It's fantastic

But get this. The most significant time in my life was 20 years ago for about four minutes when I held my baby son in my arms in the delivery room and walked around with him telling him how it was going to be. We were going to be good mates, he was going to make something of himself in life (which he has), I wasn't going to let him down and he damn well better not let me down!!

I can appreciate metal but I sure as #$%* can't love it.

Getting back. Yes, producing offspring is as easy as falling off a log. A lot of people are sh*te at parenting. I don't think I am. I have done a bloody good job and am a proud father. No one can take that away from me. I know where I stand.

Rant over, as Junkie says....