Author Topic: afganistan  (Read 7933 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: afganistan
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2006, 09:52:22 AM »
READ THE QUOTE.

bush has #$%*ed this up royally - he's an incompetant boob surrounded by weak-minded politicians who don't know how to wage a war.


is that so surprising? they are all a buch of intellectual academics playing with their little plastic army men.
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Offline Chris Schneiter

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 586
    • Christopher Schneiter Photographer
Re: afganistan
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2006, 10:04:22 AM »
Here is my unvarnished opinion, and I really don't care much if anybody objects to it. I lived through the Vietnam era, I was subject to the draft, and granted, I'm a flaming liberal and an old Hippie...
First, on the powers that got us into this: When Bush ran for the first time, I saw him as a total isolationist. He didn't even know who the leaders of foreign countries were. I think his attitude was that we could be separate from the rest of the world and that we were supreme, so nothing he said or did would affect us.
This was totally wrong. You can't be a respected leader if you don't respect the people and leaders of other countries.
The people who attacked us are absolutely irrational. They don't see things as we do, and if you insult them, they will never forgive or forget, and will get revenge, even if it means that they die too.
I believe that this arrogant attitude of Bush and his Cronies actually precipitated 9/11. Bush senior had taken them on in the '90's, and now it was amplified by his progeny. I really think that if we had elected anyone else, it wouldn't have happened so soon, or at all.
So we were attacked. In many ways, I believe that going after Al Quieda was justified, and Afghanistan has been less than helpful in that pursuit. So we went after the Taliban...this is where the Guerilla aspect came in. The Taliban are like Cockroaches, and went under the woodwork...and now they're back...How do you tell the bad guys from the good guys? Kill 'em all? No, you can't..We ran into the same situation in Vietnam and we should know better.There is no winning in this situation...our initial focus was to stop Al Quieda...the Taliban is a very unfortunate aspect of that culture...they don't affect us...Our getting distracted by diverting from our goal is kind of like international relations A.D.D.
And Iraq? I think the administration dragged us into that out of sheer ignorance and arrogance. I think they went in wanting to be remembered as the ones who ended tyrany in the middle east( Just like uncle Ronnie!). I think they thought they could just go in for a few weeks and take down the rulers and the people would fill the streets cheering and there would be a tidal wave of Democracy...As we've seen, now it's caused the countries in the Middle East to start attacking others, and Al Quieda has in fact expanded to help the cause...and I'm not so sure that the people in those "opressed" countries really want to be Democratic. We are in fact taking away their way of life that they're used to and their friends and neighbors are dying. What would we do if another country tried to do that to us?
And in all of this neo-patriotic fervor, we've been beset with a strain of mindless patriotism. People who really think that just because the president says something that it's right, and should be respected. A friend of mine once when I referred to "Bush" actually corrected me and said "President Bush"..This is the same guy who went on and on about "Clinton". I'm sorry, I lived through the murderous lies of the Nixon administration (where many in the present  administraion started out), and I have a really hard time with Blind Patriotism..it's really dangerous...if we see something that we know is wrong going on, as patriots, we need to say something. Personally, I think many of the neo-patriotic are too young and ignorant of the past and what can happen...too young to remember what has happened.
This whole situation has really made me grasp the difference between a great leader and a poor one. A great leader is one who inspires confidence, who, no matter what happens, is able to make us all feel as if everything is going well, that we're on the right track. FDR, Kennedy, Regan (even though I had problems with him) and yes, Clinton, all had this ability. Something terrible would happen, and they would come before the people and everything would seem fine.
I see Bush and his crew as bad leaders and incredibly dishonest and grasping. I think they are criminal in their motives for what they are doing, and I really believe deep down that they and their ilk genuinely believe that the people of the United States are stupid, and they don't respect us enough to be straight with us. I think that much of their motivation is financial and if nothing else they should be investigated for conflict of interest. I believe that no good, even with the perspective of time will come out of this administration, and with time, the criminality of it all will come to light. We will pay for the mistakes and misdeeds of this administration for some time to come.
A friend of mine saw a bumper sticker recently that I thought said it all. It said: "WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE BUSH A BLOWJOB SO WE CAN IMPEACH HIM?"
« Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 10:13:18 AM by ces »
CB750 K6

Offline nickjtc

  • I was numero dieci
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Yamaha XT500 'Gromit'
Re: afganistan
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2006, 10:19:03 AM »
Feel sorry for the Canadian troops in Afghanistan because of the pathetic ordnance they are having to work with. They shouldn't be there at all as fighters. We make great peacekeepers; you don't need the best weapons for that.

The difficulty with this whole discussion (on this forum) is that both sides of the argument are using the most simplistic rationale for supporting their midset. It isn't as easy as saying that people in the middle east are hateful of any religion/creed/country that isn't like our own, just as it isn't as easy as saying that the current administration was only acting in retaliation to 9-11.
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

Offline martini

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
Re: afganistan
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2006, 10:20:55 AM »
right on ces!

Offline Stormer

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 181
Re: afganistan
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2006, 11:31:49 AM »
Hmm, as a member of a nation which did no less than 5 major rebellions, I can tell you that - if guerilla is fighting the right cause, it will always win. But Afghanistan during Russian invasion and now are 2 completely different thigns. Russians were fighting dedicate NATION willing to be free. Now in Afghanistan there is a parliament (hovewer it may be, but there were FREE elections), and foreign forces are fighting small groups of extremists. There is a difference for example (similar region) between Cuban rebels who won independence and some Colombian guerillas who fight for drug lords.
No, you can't compare those 2 Afghan situations.

And, no, you can't send thousands and "kick their ass". This will always fail. What we must do is to EDUCATE those people and show them what is better for them. Many of them already know, so just give it a bit of time.

And make love, not war! It's way more fun - ask anybody who was carrying a gun being in a military uniform, during a real conflict.

I'm with you Buber. Two completely different situations. Now the brave people from Canada, USA and so on who figths in Afghanistan are working to help the people against a tribe of delinquents fanatics, who trow the muslin religion in the mud.
But Iraq is another story...
Sory the bad english.

Offline ChrisR

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 128
Re: afganistan
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2006, 11:44:01 AM »
There you go. We could ship them thousands and thousands of old Hondas to restore. It would keep them too busy to grow opium poppies. ;D

Strange as it seems, Bob,the Taliban outlawed Opium farming and output from Afghanistan fell from about 75% of the worlds supply of Heroin to virtually nothing under the Taliban. Because of the subsequent lawlessness after the overthrow of the Taliban production has increased again dramatically. There is an echo of the Opium wars fought against China in the 1840's by the British except ironically it is British society this time that is being undermined by drugs and not the Chinese populace who the British supplied from India and the North West Frontier.
 I feel for the Nato forces there trying to keep a lid on things.
Re. the religious thing - I think Religion is one of the first casualties of war, straight after the Truth. It is hijacked into the service of warmongers as an easy way to manipulate people. Works every time. Play up the differences between you and your enemies. Make them seem strange and inscrutable. Most of these "Religious Fundamentalist Fanatics' tend to be seeking Power not God. And I include Bush here, he plays that game as well as anyone.
ChrisR
1977 CB550F
1975 CB550K

Offline putnaja1

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 485
  • '77 CB 550k -Was gonna cafe, but looks cool stock!
    • Jason's Wacky Website
Re: afganistan
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2006, 12:21:12 PM »
Re. the religious thing - I think Religion is one of the first casualties of war, straight after the Truth. It is hijacked into the service of warmongers as an easy way to manipulate people. Works every time. Play up the differences between you and your enemies. Make them seem strange and inscrutable. Most of these "Religious Fundamentalist Fanatics' tend to be seeking Power not God. And I include Bush here, he plays that game as well as anyone.

Yeah, you're right.  We should have done nothing when the terrorists blew up the world trade center, just like we did nothing about the Cole..  Instead, we have this crazy warmonger in office brainwashing us all to hate those lovable islamic fundamentalists!  If only it wasn't for my gosh darn SUV!  I'd have enough money to go to college again, and then I'd be smart enough to know that my own country is really the root of all the worlds problems!  Sheesh!  What the heck is the matter with me!   :P
Play Pinball!
My Gallery!
"The world is divided into people who do things, people who get the credit and people who continually criticize.  Try, if you can, to belong to the first class of people.  There's far less competition"

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: afganistan
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2006, 12:33:57 PM »
you're hilarious.

a good start would have been to secure our borders and hunt down bin Laden.

remember him?
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Offline joeson

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • back in the day
Re: afganistan
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2006, 01:39:14 PM »
this dirty job does need to be done no doubt in my mind .Let's provide our troops with all the tools they need and get it done.Operation Madusa isn't progressing as intended from what little info I have found.The reporting based on recent examples in Lebenon does not nessasarilly reflect the situation NATO troops are facing. And I do believe CB SOHC's would cure a lot of lunatic extremist suicide bomers by providing them with pure love without the couties...The Taliban forces are able to escape and return to fight another day.This must be stopped within Pakistan and the Pakistani prime minister has vowed the people of the region will not cooperate and will fight.Major might would be required to achieve the goals of our politicians. Do they have the Right stuff or will we endlessly continue sacrificing our young to noble causes half hearted
cracka'mybackjack

Offline BobbyR

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,367
  • Proud Owner of the Babe Thread & Dirty Old Man
Re: afganistan
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2006, 08:41:03 PM »
I would not waste a perfectly good SOHC on the lot of them. There is no doubt that the US could level these Countries with non nuke weapons. As in Vietnam, the US is  not politically able to launch an all out war as was done in WWII. These occupation type wars where there is no "front" is a #$%* to fight. The Israelis are very smart. Now the UN troops are in the middle and the European Countries now will own part of the problem.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: afganistan
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2006, 09:32:01 PM »
the SOHC's are too sexy for the likes of them...they'd end up riding them around with the covers on - just like they ride the women!

 ;D ::)
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Offline toycollector10

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,134
Re: afganistan
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2006, 10:12:35 PM »
I started this

http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=12624.msg120882#msg120882

and this

http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=11275.msg106320#msg106320

So it a topic I think everyone has an opinion on or should have. Personally, it's east versus west so if you live in the west you better be on-side.
1969  CB 750 K0
1973  CB175
1973  Z1 Kawasaki

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: afganistan
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2006, 10:14:45 PM »
« Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 10:21:08 PM by cbjunkie »
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Offline toycollector10

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,134
Re: afganistan
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2006, 10:27:05 PM »
1969  CB 750 K0
1973  CB175
1973  Z1 Kawasaki

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: afganistan
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2006, 10:35:18 PM »
i never noticed before, but NZ kinda looks like Italy, only upside down and broken in half...
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Offline ChrisR

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 128
Re: afganistan
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2006, 01:29:49 AM »
Re. the religious thing - I think Religion is one of the first casualties of war, straight after the Truth. It is hijacked into the service of warmongers as an easy way to manipulate people. Works every time. Play up the differences between you and your enemies. Make them seem strange and inscrutable. Most of these "Religious Fundamentalist Fanatics' tend to be seeking Power not God. And I include Bush here, he plays that game as well as anyone.

Yeah, you're right. We should have done nothing when the terrorists blew up the world trade center, just like we did nothing about the Cole.. Instead, we have this crazy warmonger in office brainwashing us all to hate those lovable islamic fundamentalists! If only it wasn't for my gosh darn SUV! I'd have enough money to go to college again, and then I'd be smart enough to know that my own country is really the root of all the worlds problems! Sheesh! What the heck is the matter with me! :P

Point taken, mate. Just trying to say in my slightly pompous way that I wouldn't trust our glorious leaders further than I could throw them. I generally don't like leaders at all. Authority issues ;)
ChrisR
1977 CB550F
1975 CB550K

Rocking-M

  • Guest
Re: afganistan
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2006, 08:57:28 AM »
Ces, your on the money man. There is no difference between Democrats nor Republicans,
they are both heading toward the abyss at breakneck speed, especially where our civil liberties are concerned.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,363
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: afganistan
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2006, 03:54:53 PM »
There you go. We could ship them thousands and thousands of old Hondas to restore. It would keep them too busy to grow opium poppies.  ;D

Bugger the Afghans mate, send them old Honda's to me! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Ratfink

  • Guest
Re: afganistan
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2006, 07:01:02 PM »
CES FOR PREZ!!!!

Putnaja1, you embody the dogmatic rhetoric of a terrorist. You have made yourself no better than them.

Offline putnaja1

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 485
  • '77 CB 550k -Was gonna cafe, but looks cool stock!
    • Jason's Wacky Website
Re: afganistan
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2006, 07:23:38 PM »
CES FOR PREZ!!!!

Putnaja1, you embody the dogmatic rhetoric of a terrorist. You have made yourself no better than them.


Oh, dogmatic!  Excellent word!  Good work!!  You must be a straight A student of moveon.org! 

I tell you what- when these islamafacists start blowing up elementry schools in this country (like they've already done in Russia), It's gonna be neat watching people like you change your tune and blame the current administration for not doing enough..
Play Pinball!
My Gallery!
"The world is divided into people who do things, people who get the credit and people who continually criticize.  Try, if you can, to belong to the first class of people.  There's far less competition"

Ratfink

  • Guest
Re: afganistan
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2006, 07:26:14 PM »
??? :D ???  :-* ???  :P ???

Get real dude. This whole thing is a self fulfilling prophesy.

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: afganistan
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2006, 07:33:32 PM »
so, Putnaj, you must have some good idea for fixing this up, right?

or, are you a freakin' Democrat?
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Ratfink

  • Guest
Re: afganistan
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2006, 07:45:44 PM »
He has a "solution". Kill em all.

Offline cbjunkie

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,346
  • ...know what i'm sayin'?
Re: afganistan
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2006, 07:53:12 PM »
i think that's a great idea.

putnaja, why don't you join the military and go over there and show'em what you're made of dude.
save us!

don't forget to will your bike to terry...
1971 750K1
1972 CB350 (deceased)

sometimes naked, sometimes mad -
now the poet, now the fool -
thus they appear on earth,
the free men.

Offline putnaja1

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 485
  • '77 CB 550k -Was gonna cafe, but looks cool stock!
    • Jason's Wacky Website
Re: afganistan
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2006, 09:02:07 PM »
Honestly- if I didn't have a family to support, my ass would be over there..  I'm also a little too old to be going in to the mil, but if we are attacked again and my country needs me, I'll go.  I'm not afraid to stand up for what I believe in. 

As for what is my solution? 
1) attempt to identify the problem- why are they so hellbent on killing us all in the first place..  Well, that's complex now isn't it?  There are many factors, but I believe it has to do mostly with perceived US support for Isreal.  And, also we are a country that believes in freedom of religion, thought, press, and we believe in equality.  Also, we are considered powerful econimically and militarily.  They don't like these things- and so they have decided they must punish us.  I don't think the USA should give up any of these things..  Do you?  Since there is no easy way to solve the problem by changing what is identified, next step.
2) since we have been attacked numerous times (WTC in 96, WTC in 2001, Cole, Embassy bombing, etc) and these attacks were unprovoked, stand up for yourself, and mean business.  Kick ass, and that is an important deterrent.  I don't know what you all think, but it was certainly an act of war on 9/11.  Force is certainly justified in my opinion.  Find the bad guys, and eliminate them.  Eliminate training camps, eliminate terrorist leaders and figure heads, sanction and/or act on supplying countries.  Eventually, the terrorists will understand they should find another game to play.  Maybe SOHC4 Hondas?

Maybe some people think change of US policy will appease them, etc.  BUT- that would be a failure to see is there is no appeasing these zealots.  They think entirely different than we do.  They seem to have little value for human life.  They aim to take the world back to the stone age.  They blow up markets with innocent people, behead people, blow up office buildings with thousands of innocent people in them, etc.  There is NO appeasing or compromise with this mentality.  When dealing with these people, power and show of force is the way to solve this. 

No one said go to the middle east and "kill them all"- That's not my stance.  I don't believe that is the US's stance, or the current administration's stance.  If you are in prison, and some dude is trying to make you his #$%*, no one suggests kicking everyone's ass!  But, you gotta kick the offenders ass, or you are a #$%*!

Oh, and hey look ma!  I don't even have to use any big words or philosophical bull#$%* to get my points across!
« Last Edit: September 09, 2006, 09:35:51 PM by putnaja1 »
Play Pinball!
My Gallery!
"The world is divided into people who do things, people who get the credit and people who continually criticize.  Try, if you can, to belong to the first class of people.  There's far less competition"