Topic: afganistan

[joeson]

S.O.B. 2700 Canadian NATO troops try to pull of what the Russian army didn't do in ten years of combat GET IT TOGETHER send thousands and kick their asses are you with me or against me

[Ratfink]

I say get the #$%* out.

[GroovieGhoulie]

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!

-Rudyard Kipling

[Bob Wessner]

Personally, I don't think it is possible to tactically win against determined guerrilla forces. Oh, I forgot, we call it insurgency now. When I left Vietnam, troop strength was at it's highest, 500,000! What was accomplished there? Even the Germans failed to quell guerrilla tactics in the occupied countries during WWII and they used some nasty forms of retaliation.

[joeson]

Its painfull to see history repeat

[joeson]

sad verses for those that have connections to the perils ....There is a way not yet discoverd is all we have to believe  ,fate or faith will bring us there I hpe

[pgagy]

I think the saddest thing is yet another US military "whoopsie daisy, I thought you were Afghani rebels so I let loose with with these depleted uranium shells on my Warthog, I really hope nobody got dead too badly" excuses. 

[Buber]

Hmm, as a member of a nation which did no less than 5 major rebellions, I can tell you that - if guerilla is fighting the right cause, it will always win. But Afghanistan during Russian invasion and now are 2 completely different thigns. Russians were fighting dedicate NATION willing to be free. Now in Afghanistan there is a parliament (hovewer it may be, but there were FREE elections), and foreign forces are fighting small groups of extremists. There is a difference for example (similar region) between Cuban rebels who won independence and some Colombian guerillas who fight for drug lords.
No, you can't compare those 2 Afghan situations.

And, no, you can't send thousands and "kick their ass". This will always fail. What we must do is to EDUCATE those people and show them what is better for them. Many of them already know, so just give it a bit of time.

And make love, not war! It's way more fun - ask anybody who was carrying a gun being in a military uniform, during a real conflict.

[Terry in Australia]

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!

-Rudyard Kipling

And nothing much has changed since the battle of the Khyber Pass, armies have come and gone, and rearranged the rocks, but otherwise it's the same tactical nightmare that it was in 1842.

There are too many soldiers from around the world killed or injured there on a daily basis, and it can be argued that the situation is worse now than it was 3 years ago. Personally, I don't see the point in continuing.

Send those boys (and girls) home back to where they're appreciated, by decent people. Cheers, Terry.

[Rocking-M]

Others can't be "educated" unless that is really what they want.
Further, it is the hight of hypocrisy to try and remake others in the uS image when
we have enough warts of our own. I think the best avenue to take is,
"To avoid foreign entanglements". (Washington)

[Buber]

Hmm, I'm from Poland and I live in Poland.
Educate, I mean to show other ways. Take a look at Morocco or Tunisia - those are arabic countries without any significant extremist groups - they simply had a chance to "taste" the better, normal economy and life, and it wins....
but they are close to Europe. For Afghanistan it will take more time.....

I personally believe that more developed and richer nations is, then it has less interest in wars - the more you have, the more you have to lose. Except of course dictatorship nations, but as per history, ultimately they all fall.

And personally - as a general, nothing personal - I've been in States, worked for US company, and although there are some good things there - nope, thanks, I never want to be USimage. 

Best Regards!

[putnaja1]

Others can't be "educated" unless that is really what they want.
Further, it is the hight of hypocrisy to try and remake others in the uS image when
we have enough warts of our own. I think the best avenue to take is,
"To avoid foreign entanglements". (Washington)

I think that's #$%*ing nuts..  Of course, you're the one who is spouting off BS like "the US did 911", etc., so there will be no convincing you anyhow- the truth can never compete with the excitement of an anti-US conspiracy theory.

BUT- get real peope!  We are dealing with extremists who are bred to hate, and we are dealing with a religion that believes two things:  1)There's no other religion than this one, and 2)kill anyone that is not in this religion.  We can sugar coat this as much as we want, but that's the truth, and I am tired of innocent people dying, and then you guys always spout the "lets hate the USA first" retoric.  "Oh it's USA policy in the middle east" is what you say..  I say, what policy?  They are pissed because we buy what they sell?  Or are they really pissed because we are a large successful country, were citizens have FREEDOM OF RELIGION, and women don't have to be love slaves with their faces covered!

I say find the extremist murderers, and kill them.  It's what Russia does, but I don't see you guys complaining about their use of gas, depleted uranium, etc.  Oh, it's always innocent people that the US (or Isreal) shoot at, right?  It could never be terrorists or extremists, who hide (because they are cowards) within the innocent population- so people like you will cry about it and burn up some flags.

How long are people gonna insist that fighting terrorism is wrong, or that terrorists have a legitimate cause?  I was alarmed to see how many people were actually taking up the side of Hezbolah during the latest skirmish with Isreal!!  How would we act here, if some foreign invader crossed over our border, killed a bunch of police officers, and then kidnapped two more, expecting us to bargain!  That's an act of war that they started!!  I hear no condemnation of the freakin journalists that touched up pictures with photoshop to make it look worse than it was- it's a joke!  Are you gonna wait until this is in your own backyard before you see the light?

[dusterdude]

the bad thing is,there is an easy way to take care of that situation

[Rushoid]

I think that's #$%*ing nuts..  Of course, you're the one who is spouting off BS like "the US did 911", etc., so there will be no convincing you anyhow- the truth can never compete with the excitement of an anti-US conspiracy theory.

BUT- get real peope!  We are dealing with extremists who are bred to hate, and we are dealing with a religion that believes two things:  1)There's no other religion than this one, and 2)kill anyone that is not in this religion.  We can sugar coat this as much as we want, but that's the truth, and I am tired of innocent people dying, and then you guys always spout the "lets hate the USA first" retoric.  "Oh it's USA policy in the middle east" is what you say..  I say, what policy?  They are pissed because we buy what they sell?  Or are they really pissed because we are a large successful country, were citizens have FREEDOM OF RELIGION, and women don't have to be love slaves with their faces covered!

I say find the extremist murderers, and kill them.  It's what Russia does, but I don't see you guys complaining about their use of gas, depleted uranium, etc.  Oh, it's always innocent people that the US (or Isreal) shoot at, right?  It could never be terrorists or extremists, who hide (because they are cowards) within the innocent population- so people like you will cry about it and burn up some flags.

How long are people gonna insist that fighting terrorism is wrong, or that terrorists have a legitimate cause?  I was alarmed to see how many people were actually taking up the side of Hezbolah during the latest skirmish with Isreal!!  How would we act here, if some foreign invader crossed over our border, killed a bunch of police officers, and then kidnapped two more, expecting us to bargain!  That's an act of war that they started!!  I hear no condemnation of the freakin journalists that touched up pictures with photoshop to make it look worse than it was- it's a joke!  Are you gonna wait until this is in your own backyard before you see the light?

Amen, brother!
If a foreign invader killed a bunch of police... the media would probably want us to sit down with them and try to understand their point of view. Then they'd tell us that we need to practice tolerence while giving them citizenship...  Not to mention there would be much rejoicing that there are dead cops. After all, everybody hates cops, right? 

[racing33]

You can show people the light a thousand times and they will still not see it. People are not raised to speak up for them selves anymore. The general public, with the exception of almost everyone on this site , are a bunch of mindless sheep. They are being led to believe that everything is ok, that our politicians will take care of everything, and of course that the politicians have our best interests in mind. All the while the politicians are leading them to the slaughter.
As for the foreign affairs that we are currently involved in all I have to say is "what a gigantic mess". I do not really know what to think of that current mess. Why are we in Afghanistan, and Iraq? I mean really why are we there? What is the point? To eliminate terrorism? It will never happen. To stop a rouge country from developing into a third world power. That will never happen either. I wish it could happen like that, but it never will.
Bruce

[GroovieGhoulie]

After all, everybody hates cops, right? 

Only when they're giving me a ticket and/or enforcing BS laws.  (The two are VERY closely related).   

I don't believe in Malum Prohibitum laws.  It's only a crime if there is a direct, articulatable victim, ergo, speeding is NOT a crime.   

[winston]

The real problem in Afghanistan from a geo-polictal point of view is the appalling shortage of vintage SOHC Hondas.

[Bob Wessner]

There you go. We could ship them thousands and thousands of old Hondas to restore. It would keep them too busy to grow opium poppies. 

[winston]

If only Dick Cheney's blind trust and/or Skull & Bones buddies had a chain of vintage bike repair shops in its portfolio....we'd have cool bikes AND plausible deniability for speeding tickets.

[pmpski_1]

Forget about Afghanistan and Iraq. And everywhere else. The US should go into "take care of itself mode". If a nation can't take care of it's own (Katrina), how can it be expected to do good in places like Afghanistan?

Of course, achieve the primary goal first. Bring Osama bin Laden to Manhattan.

[BobbyR]

If you want to change that country, we need to make the people happy. Send them Guinness, Strippers Casinos, IPODs and Porno Shops. They will be so busy having fun they will leave us alone. Now we round up the ones that aren't having fun, and you have all your troublemakers. End of story.

[cbjunkie]

i must be missing something - what has prompted this thread?

[cbjunkie]

tom friedman:

Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, and let’s have an unprecedented wartime tax cut and shrink our armed forces. They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but let’s send just enough troops to topple Saddam — and never control Iraq’s borders, its ammo dumps or its looters. They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but rather than bring Democrats and Republicans together in a national unity war coalition, let’s use the war as a wedge issue to embarrass Democrats, frighten voters and win elections. They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism — which is financed by our own oil purchases — but let’s not do one serious thing about ending our oil addiction.

[putnaja1]

Why does everyone think that if the USA stops buying oil from the middle east, things would be any different? 

1)  if we stopped importing the 20% or so of oil we buy from them, they wouldn't even be phased!  Because, China, Japan, and all the other countries that are also in need of oil would buy up whatever we don't..  Middle Eastern countries will be wealthy from their oil no matter what we do.
2)  why criticize the only administration that has been willing to take a stand and fight when we are attacked?  9/11 happened on the current administration's watch, and we did something about it.  What about the USS Cole?  What about the embassy bombing?  What was done about those events?   NADA!  So how is it that suddenly the current administration is to blame for 9/11?  And now, the other political party is just ranting and raving that we need to get out now, we need to cut and run, etc.  Is that a solution?  You honestly think the problems will simply go away?

The enemy (the terrorists) say all the time what this is all about- it's not oil!!  It's a holy war!  It's as simple as that.  Nothing the USA can do will appease them- this mindset cannot be appeased.  Unless you happen to think that we should cease to exist to appease them.  I don't think any political party is gonna agree with that (I hope anyway).

tom friedman:

Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, and let’s have an unprecedented wartime tax cut and shrink our armed forces. They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but let’s send just enough troops to topple Saddam — and never control Iraq’s borders, its ammo dumps or its looters. They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but rather than bring Democrats and Republicans together in a national unity war coalition, let’s use the war as a wedge issue to embarrass Democrats, frighten voters and win elections. They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism — which is financed by our own oil purchases — but let’s not do one serious thing about ending our oil addiction.

[Rushoid]

I don't understand how it's all Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld. The shrinking of the military was during the Clinton administration and not because of a wartime tax cut. Why is it only the Republicans fault that the two parties can't get along? After all, most of the Dems voted FOR the war, only to change their minds later (around election time if I remember correctly). We shoulda sent more troops at the onset, I agree. But I always wondered how much of that was to keep the media, and the left-wing extremists from crying foul about endangering too many of our boys' (and girls) lives. Our oil addiction is a problem, but so is our dependency on foreign oil. Why can't we dig for oil on our own turf? Because the Dems won't let us.

I'm sick of everybody blaming the world's problems on Bush. Neither his administration, nor his party is to blame for this mess. It's both sides. Until the politicians quit being politicians, and the media starts reporting the news instead of creating it, that's never going to change.