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Author Topic: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550  (Read 3589 times)

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Offline caferacer

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WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« on: February 16, 2014, 06:20:03 am »
i have a 1978 Honda Cb550 that i started racing last year with the VRRA in Canada , the engine is stock and in need of a little performance improvment .
So i am thinking of doing a little porting on the head maybe a little over bore and a mild cam but i am not sure where to find the cam , can any one tell me the best place with the best value as budget is tight .

Thanks Caferacer

Offline calj737

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2014, 06:28:28 am »
A 650 cam is your cheapest option. Be certain to also swap the tach gear for compatibility.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

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Offline bwaller

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2014, 07:01:12 am »
Hi caferacer,

Not sure who I'm talking to but we race the same class. (although my 2013 season was short) 60mm is the largest legal bore, but even with stock pistons you can do some decking to build stronger CR. Be prepared to check all clearances though. As mentioned the CB650 cam is a mild increase over stock, probably like the Webcam 358a. They also sell the 358b, plus Megacycle has cams available too. Dynoman offers some 550 engine upgrades including 60mm pistons.

Check the VRRA for sale section. Dan has a set of Yosh 1mm over pistons with a set of bored cylinders as another option.

Cheers,  Brent

Offline onepieceatatime

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 01:03:45 pm »
I have an extra CB650 cam, but do not have the tach gear to go with it. PM me if interested.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=106685.0

1980 CB650C
1980 CB650
1982 CB900F

Offline caferacer

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 03:14:53 pm »
Hi Brent it is Dave from Tech #734 the light blue 550 , thanks for the info i will chequ it all out , i am interested in the cam i will PM you onepieceatatime and thaks calj737 .

Dave

Offline caferacer

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 03:22:41 pm »
Brent could you Pm me and let me know which Dan to contact on VRRA site please .

Offline Tintop

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 04:49:54 pm »
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Justind97

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 06:54:23 pm »
Here's the link to the ad - http://www.vrra.ca/board/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20844

Already sold to me.   I'm picking them up Wednesday when Dan gets back from his trip.



Offline caferacer

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 08:30:14 pm »
I snooze i loose ,see you all at the track .

Offline flatlander

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 08:43:10 am »
does anyone have a comparison between the mentioned cams in a 550?

  • cb650
  • webcam 358a
  • megacycle 126-00

would be interesting to know where they put the powerband, compared to each other (and compared to stock).
there seems to be a lack of info in the 'mild cam for 550' segment - or at least i could not find any hard facts when i searched the forum.

Offline Justind97

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2014, 09:56:40 am »
Here's some info that I could find for you.

550(1974)
1.362 lobe            1.382
1.110 base circle   1.110
0.252 lift               0.272

650(1981c)
1.360                1.380
1.105                1.105
0.255                0.275

650(1979std)
1.390                1.403
1.110                1.110
0.280                0.293

Taken from here:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=99529.msg1111277#msg1111277

Webcam 358a
VALVE LIFT     DURATION      DURATION
                                               @ 0.050"
   
.330/.330       280°/280°      228°/228°

Taken from here:   http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/vehicle_search.html


Megacycle Cam

Copying and pasting isn't working too well:   http://www.megacyclecams.com/catalog/catalog.pdf
 PDF page 28/69
 

Offline bwaller

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2014, 10:11:02 am »
I installed a Web 58a at the same time as a bore increase, but my best guess is it mimics the stock Honda cam. Meaning, the power delivery is very linear only somewhat stronger. No peakiness anywhere with this cam, good choice for a street bike.

Offline flatlander

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2014, 12:57:52 pm »
justind97:
thanks for the numbers. i've seen them for megacycle and webcam but not for the stock 550 and 650 cams. good find!

adding from the same thread, for easy comparison
I was also given some specs for the stock CB550 cam from a 1980 Action Fours catalog:

 intake duration 240*
 exh. duration    245*

 intake lift     .300
 exh . lift       .280
and
at 40 thou i came up with
ex37/2 lift 279 dur 219

in5/31 lift294 dur 216

and for the megacycle 126-00, from http://www.megacyclecams.com/catalog/catalog.pdf
Quote
valve lift
.296"/.280"

duration at 0.40"
240/240

open/close
in: 15 btc/45abc
ex: 45 bbc/15atc

bwaller:
thanks a lot, that's good practical info. if i read you correctly, the 58a is just overall a bit stronger, does not sacrifice any midrange?

looking at all these figures i'd guess the megacycle to be generally somewhat milder than 58a but possibly more torquey - but i'm not great with numbergames and this is quite a theoretical excercise. has anyone tried it?

Offline bwaller

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2014, 05:06:55 pm »
It's probably not a perfect comparison because the engine I mentioned is 592cc but it does have a very smooth power delivery.

This winter I changed the copper for an MLS head gasket and the timing figures are as follows. I always check @ 0.040" not the 0.050" Web suggests. This gives some real comparison #'s.

@0.040"

In. opens 14d, closes 47d       106.5d  lobe center
Ex     "      47d,     "     14d.      106.5d         "

Intake duration 241d    lift  0.314"
Exhaust     "      241d    lift  0.315"

Offline flatlander

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2014, 06:26:07 am »
thanks again, bwaller!
here's an overview of what (i think) the info in this thread is so far:

58a
0.040   
58a
0.050   
58a    126-00
0.040   
550
0.040   
550    650
1981c   
650
1979std   
in dur241228280240216240
ex dur241228280240219245
in lift.314 .330.296.294.300.255.280
ex lift.315 .330.280.279.280.275.293
in open14 155
in close47 4531
ex open47 4537
ex close14 152
in lobe ctre106.5 105
ex lobe ctre 106.5 105

if anyone spots an error or something that's missing let me know, then i add it.

Offline kayaker43

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2014, 04:10:28 pm »
Ignoring the numbers I can give some real world feedback regarding the 650 cam swap. I was pleasantly surprised to find the sweet spot come in about 1000 rpm earlier than the stock cams with a little more power all the way to redline. The exhaust even sounds s little different. For street use its a great cam however roadracing is mostly in the upper rpms and may not see as much benefit.

I would retard the cam to move the sweet spot up a little higher but check clearances first.

Offline bwaller

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2014, 05:42:41 pm »
Good to see you Kayaker. Chek for a PM please.

Offline Kemp

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2014, 09:36:30 am »
Noticed a really big improvement over stock 550 when I went big bore (591CC) and used the 650 cam in an otherwise stock motor. The engine was a lot more responsive with a big boost in mid range and top end. Bang for the buck I think it's the best way to go on these 550's.

Offline flatlander

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 04:34:26 am »
some bits out of an earlier email conversation with buzz from dynoman:

Quote
The CB 650 cam has less duration than even the Web 358 A drop in cam and the 358 B has even more duration than the 358 A for better flow. We know that many people use the stock CB650 cams in the CB500-550 but they do not make the high RPM power of a performance cam ,as they are emissions cams. For the street they work better than the stock CB550 with low compression pistons, but we have to disagree on there overall performance being better. With a bore kit with higher compression you need a cam with better ramp speed and more duration for the extra flow in the high RPM range. This not only charges the cylinder much better, but the motor will run cooler as well.

Quote
If you change nothing else a higher lift cam with low duration (like the CB650) may add a little mid-range but will fall off on the top end without added duration. If you are going to install [bigger bore, higher compression] pistons your mid-rage will be fine with a 358A, but if you are going to keep the stock pistons your mid-range power will be lower with any cam that you install.
With a bore kit installed the 650 cams would give you more mid-range power than cams with more duration, but with a better cam you would increase the top end as well.

Offline onepieceatatime

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 07:56:27 pm »
Here's some info that I could find for you.

550(1974)
1.362 lobe            1.382
1.110 base circle   1.110
0.252 lift               0.272

650(1981c)
1.360                1.380
1.105                1.105
0.255                0.275

650(1979std)
1.390                1.403
1.110                1.110
0.280                0.293

Taken from here:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=99529.msg1111277#msg1111277

Webcam 358a
VALVE LIFT     DURATION      DURATION
                                               @ 0.050"
   
.330/.330       280°/280°      228°/228°

Taken from here:   http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/vehicle_search.html


Megacycle Cam

Copying and pasting isn't working too well:   http://www.megacyclecams.com/catalog/catalog.pdf
 PDF page 28/69

For US models '79 through '82  CB650s have the same part number for the cam. This applies to standard, custom, and nighthawk models. The German ones had a different cam that was not an upgrade for the 550.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=106685.0

1980 CB650C
1980 CB650
1982 CB900F

Offline flatlander

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2017, 07:57:27 pm »
adding to keep all these numbers in one place:

Here are some CB 650 numbers from the lady at Megacycle. They look a little different than the numbers I measured using my cheapo calipers, but what do I know?
 Do these numbers look viable for a stock 650 cam?

 INTAKE

 .332" lift at .040, measured at zero clearance.
 223° duration
 105° lobe center

EXHAUST

 .318" lift
 228° duration
 108 lobe center

Offline flatlander

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2018, 12:42:18 pm »
here's a dyno comparison of the megacycle 126-00 and webcam 358a.

they're in the same engine. both were installed the same way: equal lobe centres, and valve lash set at manufacturer's spec (they use different amounts).

the 358a reaches max torque earlier, while both get to the same hp. my butt dyno confirms this also, by reporting noticeably stronger pick-up from lower rpms.
of course, results will be different with different engine configurations...


Offline turboguzzi

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2018, 01:58:53 pm »
54 hp is nice going for a 550. engine has other mods other than cam?

Offline flatlander

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Re: WANTED :- Mild Cam for CB550
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2018, 06:31:49 am »
yes:
59mm wisecos, stage 2.5 mike rieck head with +1mm intake valves,
stock airbox and carbs, benelli replica 4/4 pipes, boyer bransden ignition

 

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