Topic: Air Tools Question

[sanxa_]

I've begun the long process of breaking down my very neglected 350f (bought it for $600, seems like it has been sitting for a decade or two).

Some details so far: I took the carbs off and cleaned them thoroughly in preparation to turning it over. I bought new plugs, oil & filter and upon removing the plugs one sheared in the head. Thanks to the forum my next step was to take the head off to fix the plug. At this point i'm going to do an overhaul of the head/check the innards. The problem is that every single screw and bolt on this thing seems to be pretty happy with where it is in life and is refusing to budge. Even with penetrating oil and heat i've been stripping screws.

My plan now is to get some impact tools and I like the flexibility that air tools would offer (not just for the bike) . I came accross a craftsman air tool set for $89. My question is if anybody has tried it. Should I get this and a small compressor (also available from craftsman for $100) for the job? Or should I go with electric tools (corded/cordless?).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Air tool set: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-pc-air-tool-set/p-00916852000P?prdNo=8
Compressor: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-3-gallon-portable-air-compressor/p-00915362000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

My dad and I have always sworn by craftsman products but a recent set of snapped bits seems to be pointing to a massive decrease in quality.

[sanxa_]

Quick pic of the bike to inspire some help -

[nccb]

can't comment on the compressors but go to your nearest autozone and pick up this:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Tools-Garage-and-Equipment/Impact-Driver-Set/_/N-25dw

cheap and affective

[Stev-o]

I have a compressor and air tools but never use them on my bikes (except to air up tires).

Do you have an impact driver? It is essential to loosening screws. Penetrating fluid and a torch are helpful too. 
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-impact-driver/p-00947641000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=00947641000&kispla=00947641000P

I bought mine at Autozone for about $15....

[70CB750]

What Stev-o says, air tools are too powerful for these motorcycles.

[lucky]

You do NOT need air tools. Air tools will just strip screws and break more bolts off.
You need motorcycle tools.

You have to have the impact driver and the correct size bit to remove the screws.

You must use the impact driver properly.
DO NOT just place the impact driver on the screw and bang the driver with a hammer!
It will strip out the head of the screw.

You place the impact driver on the screw and then push down and twist to loosen, THEN you hit the top of the impact driver. Big difference!


I take the time to explain this because the impact drivers often do not come with instructions.
I know the drivers are being used improperly because people are stripping screw heads WITH the impact driver.
Also give the top of the screw a few light taps with a small ball peen hammer to loosen the molecular bond.

[Grnrngr]

Harbor Freight has a hand held impact driver with 1/2" drive for about $7. An essential for working on Japanese bikes generally, and even more so for a bike that has been sitting a long time. JIS screws have been stripping heads since they began importing them. And I would also agree, air tools are for cars and trucks but a compressor is great thing to have in any garage or workshop.

[thirsty 1]

These both have excellent power and are handy for all the things around the house. I put new gutters on with mine. 

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DCK290L2-20-Volt-Li-Ion-Hammer/dp/B0052MIJN6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392737339&sr=8-1&keywords=DEWALT+20-Volt+Max+Li-Ion+Cordless+Combo+Kit+%282-Tool%29

[sanxa_]

Thanks for all the comments - I'll pick up an impact driver today on the way home from work.

It did seem to me that the torque of these air tools would be a problem but I'm fairly new at all this (and possibly just wanted to feel as though I were in an F1 pit crew  ). Probably still going to jump on that compressor as there are a million things I could use that for

Appreciate the advice, this forum is an excellent resource for a newbie like myself.

[grepper]

I'd say start small and work your way up.

Start with an air compressor.  Those small ones are ok from cleaning carbs and air brush work, but lake the CFM's (cubic feet per minute) to do larger work.  May want to start with something with a motor between 1 and 3 horse power.  Big enough to run most air tools and paint sprayers and buy tools one at a time. 

And like the other's said.  Impact wrenches are a bit much for working on motorcycles.  Maybe for taking them apart, but way too much for putting them together.

[rb550four]

+1 on the larger compressor, the day will come when you'll want to sandblast or use a paint gun and you won't have the cfms .
  Impact driver is a must . Air impact wrench or battery op impacts never on a bike... save the $ and get a decent torque wrench,  ratchet end wrenches, multimeter ,valve spring compressor , or even carb sync guages. especially if you have more than 1 machine and find yourself looking for others.

[grepper]

+1 on the larger compressor, the day will come when you'll want to sandblast or use a paint gun and you won't have the cfms .

Yup, I have a 3 hp and sand blasting leaves a bit to be desired.  To sand blast you need ~ 6+ CFMs at 100 PSI.

[Black 750K8]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200318461_200318461

I had 2 or 3 small ones over a few years. Then bought this one never had any issues with it. I think it is the best bang for the buck if it is in your budget. If I had to do it again I would go for the same pump but with the 80 gallon tank. For a home shop it will do anything you need. I don't use it for the bike except for paint. The type 30 pump is the best non commercial  one they make and it is a hoss for the house. Do it right the first time if you can.

[Black 750K8]

Other than air compressor the thing I use the most and you will too.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_parts-washers?seeAll=1

Pick the weapon of your choice but go with at least 30 gallon tank.

[754]

There is a thread in for sale about VESSEL Impact drivers.  Good info there.
Ilbikes is selling some quality screwdrivers for the JIS screws on our bikes.

[lucky]

The Honda CB750 used Phillips screws with ISO threads.

Honda changed from IJS  threads before the CB750 was introduced.

But in any case always closely check the fit of the bit  in the screw head.

[lrutt]

IMO, air tools are essential when working on old bikes. At least for stripping things down. I don't use them to re-assemble, but stuck fasteners come right out with the proper impact wrench.

You will NOT  be happy with a $100 air compressor. First time you try and undo a big ass nut with your 1/2" impact your compressor will be out of air before you get it loose.

Do NOT buy an oil-less compressor. They are crap. Think about it, what can last without running in oil?

If you just need to air up a tire now and then, the cheapo's would be ok. But if you want to do anything else...fa get about it.

I actually have 2 big 5hp 2 stage compressors. I only bring the second one online when I'm doing some heavy duty media blasting. Otherwise my 2 stage IR 50 year old workhorse does the job.

Compare TQ ratings on those air impacts. You can have a huge range of power for a 1/2" impact.
I have an old 1/2" impact and I know that on some stubborn fasteners I need full air pressure (120 psi) to get them out. I could really use a rebuild of the seals or possible a new gun.

The little butterfly 3/8 impacts are really handy as well. I have a 3/8 air ratchet I rarely use.

The little high speed air die grinders are extremely useful but take a fair bit of air. I use it all the time it seems like.

And as you can see from my sig, I've restored a few bikes. That includes tear down, media blast, paint, etc. I've done it all with my compressor / s

[kammery]

 Those small 4 volt screw guns work well for reassembly . Will not overtighten bolts/nuts etc . I use them for assembling transmissions .

[jamesb]

If you get a compressor do not get a dry pump compressor get a oil compressor they are much more quieter and last longer. A 30 gallon is decent enough to handle just about anything. Pancake compressors are also good it will just cycle more than a bigger compressor. I use 1/4" air tools on the bikes and haven't had any problems.

[Powderman]

What Stev-o says, air tools are too powerful for these motorcycles.

Power can be adjusted by regulating input air pressure. Air tools come in quite handy and time saving. Common sense, which I know is lacking in often cases, helps to know when to use them and not. I use them to run bolts down or take them out but not to "impact" them in and chance shearing stuff off.

[70CB750]

What Stev-o says, air tools are too powerful for these motorcycles.

Power can be adjusted by regulating input air pressure.

I wish somebody explained that concept to the monkey that usually does the safety inspection on my truck 

[madScientist]

Another misconception with air compressors is that the size of the tank doesn't matter as much as the CFM output of the compressor. If you're using an air hog tool like a cut off wheel or sandblaster it'll burn through the stored air in the tank really quickly. If the CFM for the motor doesn't meet or exceed the demands of the tool then you'll still run out of air albeit it'll take longer with the larger tank.

When buying an air compressor assess the tools you plan to use with it. Look at the CFM ratings for each one, find the one that consumes the most air, and then find an air compressor that meets, exceeds, or is darn close to that rating.

As stated by the others, a wet sump compressor will be quieter and ultimately last longer between rebuilds than a dry sump compressor. 2-Stage compressors also yield more efficiency and, often, less condensation. not always though.

The rule that I stand by is buy the biggest (cfm) you can afford when it comes time to get your end all be all air compressor. I also live by "buy once, cry once" so when I bought mine I bought a Quincy 2stage. It's rated at 50k hours and has a CFM rating of like 17 cfm @ 90 psi which is more than i'll probably ever need.

Eventually you'll also want to think about "treating" the air. Dryer, purification, regulators, etc.

Now this all may be over kill for what you're initially wanting to do. When i started working on cars I had a little 3hp craftsman that ran 6 cfm @90 psi. It left a lot to be desired when doing automotive work...however it ran 2 nailers great when i reroofed my garage.

[750K]

I've had air tools for years and they're great for things like working on cars, nailers and air drills etc. I don't really use them on my bikes, a bit overkill mostly. I've used it to blow out carbs while cleaning them and inflate tires, although I do have a neat little butterfly impact wrench I'd use in a bike. It's pretty small, I used it on smaller automotive nuts and bolts where my big impact would've been to much.

Like others have said, you're better off buying some good quality wrenches and socket set. Buy a quality torque wrench and a JIS screw driver, get a small compressor if you feel the need. They work great when you need to blow out carbs and inflate tires.

[madScientist]

I should also throw in a disclaimer to my comment. I work on cars in conjunction with my bikes. When i work on the bikes i usually turn the regulator down quite a bit but I still use it.

Now...before I had the compressor I used (and still have) a SnapOn impact driver that I used on the bikes. If i didn't have the need for the compressor on the cars; the driver, good metric 1/2 and 1/4 sockets, screwdrivers, rubber mallet, and balpeen hammer would be all I'd need to adequately work on all the bikes I have.

[bjbuchanan]

I have the dewalt drill and driver combo, 20v set. These things are awesome and what you see in most of the pro shops

I use the impact driver to tear things down. Put that 3/8" attachment in and go to town, you strip stuff off in no time. Stuck phillips heads you obviously don't want to touch tho

I prefer electric over air as electric is quieter and for cheaper grinders/cutters they have way more kick. I don't have a shop with a decent sized compressor so my compressor would be obnoxiously running on and off.

Handheld impact driver is the key for the phillips heads, as most have already mentioned. I have a cheaper harbor freight impact that works just fine. When the bits wear out I will buy better quality bits but for 7$ and two bikes later I don't have a complaint