Topic: Going to school 1957 versus now

[Retro Rocket]

Scenario :
Johnny and Mark get into a fight after school.

1957 -  Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up best friends.

2012 -  Police called, and they arrest Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it. Both children go to anger management programmes for 3 months. School governors hold meeting to implement bullying prevention programmes.

Scenario :
Robbie won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1957 -  Robbie  sent to the office and given six of the best by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2012 -  Robbie given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADHD – result deemed to be positive. Robbie's parents get fortnightly disability payments and school gets extra funding from government because Robbie has a disability.

Scenario  :
Billy breaks a window in his neighbour's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.

1957 -  Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2012 -  Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care; joins a gang; ends up in jail. 

Scenario  :
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.

1957 -  Mark gets glass of water from Principal to take aspirin with. Passes exams, becomes a solicitor.

2012 -  Police called, car searched for drugs and weapons..   Mark expelled from school for drug taking. Ends up as a drop out.

Scenario  :
Johnny takes apart leftover fireworks from Guy Fawkes night, puts them in a paint tin & blows up a wasp's nest.

1957 -  Wasps die.

2012 -  Police & Anti-Terrorism Squad called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, investigate parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated.. Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly in an airplane again.

Scenario  :
Johnny falls over while running during morning break and scrapes his knee.  He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. She hugs him to comfort him.

1957 -  In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing footie. No damage done.

2012 -  Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy and ends up gay.   
   
How very true and sad...

[70CB750]

You are missing:

Scenario : Jack goes rabbit shooting before school, pulls into school parking lot with rifle in gun rack.

1957 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's rifle, goes to his car and gets his rifle & chats with Jack about guns.

2011 - School goes into lock down, Tactical Response called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his ute or gun again.. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

[bill440cars]

 There was a time, when if their child caused problems at home, the parents punished the child and if that child caused problems at school, not only did he get it at school, he also got it, when he got home too. Lesson learned.

 Then, it came about that, if a child was a problem, the parents left it to the school to punish the child, while they did nothing at home and even sometimes, came down on the school, for punishing their child! Seems they (the parents, would have a "Reason" for the problem, but no solution!

  What ever happened to the parents, bringing a child into this world, giving that child what they needed to develop  into a responsible person and  turn around and marry and THEY bring a child into this world and THEY marry and bring a child into this world and THEY give that child what THEY need to become a responsible person and so on? Responsibility seems to be the main thing missing. Am I wrong?           

[MoMo]

I experienced most of those 1957 scenarios and that is quite accurate.  Today is a sad state of affairs...Larry

[LesterPiglet]

Now if you guys were English.   

Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen

[Retro Rocket]

There was a time, when if their child caused problems at home, the parents punished the child and if that child caused problems at school, not only did he get it at school, he also got it, when he got home too. Lesson learned.

 Then, it came about that, if a child was a problem, the parents left it to the school to punish the child, while they did nothing at home and even sometimes, came down on the school, for punishing their child! Seems they (the parents, would have a "Reason" for the problem, but no solution!

  What ever happened to the parents, bringing a child into this world, giving that child what they needed to develop  into a responsible person and  turn around and marry and THEY bring a child into this world and THEY marry and bring a child into this world and THEY give that child what THEY need to become a responsible person and so on? Responsibility seems to be the main thing missing. Am I wrong?           

Throw respect in there to Bill....

[bill440cars]

There was a time, when if their child caused problems at home, the parents punished the child and if that child caused problems at school, not only did he get it at school, he also got it, when he got home too. Lesson learned.

 Then, it came about that, if a child was a problem, the parents left it to the school to punish the child, while they did nothing at home and even sometimes, came down on the school, for punishing their child! Seems they (the parents, would have a "Reason" for the problem, but no solution!

  What ever happened to the parents, bringing a child into this world, giving that child what they needed to develop  into a responsible person and  turn around and marry and THEY bring a child into this world and THEY marry and bring a child into this world and THEY give that child what THEY need to become a responsible person and so on? Responsibility seems to be the main thing missing. Am I wrong?           

Throw respect in there to Bill....

                Oh yeah, "Respect" now THWERE is a word that sure needs to be Reintroduced into the language of Today! Thank you for reminding me about THAT word buddy.

[BeSeeingYou]

And if you were a kid in the South you didn't have to go to school with African American kids......just sayin.....sometimes all this navel gazing about how good things were in the past is just looking through rose colored glasses.

[Retro Rocket]

And if you were a kid in the South you didn't have to go to school with African American kids......just sayin.....sometimes all this navel gazing about how good things were in the past is just looking through rose colored glasses.

Well Steve, i would rather wear rose colored glasses than the sh1t colored ones of today mate, the 70's for me was the time i could have spent my whole life...

[JeffSTL]

Well I went to school in the 80's. My dad never laid a hand on me when I screwed up. He talked to me instead...I grew up, went to college, and if self sufficient equals successful, successful.

I'm 6'3" 200lbs. And would never consider raising a hand to my teenage son. If I did, i would totally expect to be held accountable for it. My kid and his friends are very respectable it doesn't need to be beat into them.

I saw plenty of fights in high school. I'd dare say most of the fighters never made up and became friends at any point in life. They were probably fighting because the were taught at home that when anyone does something wrong there is a whipping in order.

As srust58 said...nothing but nostalgia.

[bill440cars]

      I think there is something that is being missed here. For one thing, I am guessing that there might be some who have never heard of what happened at Central High School in Little Rock Arkansas? Could have googled it, to be sure on the date, but it was either 1956 or 57, that the Arkansas National Guard was called in to keep things under control, because Central High School was being integrated. Also, What works, to discipline 1 child will not always work with another child. This whole thread was about a number of differences between then and now. It wasn't only about "discipline of a child" No offense folks, but I feel there are some who have completely missed the boat on what was intended here and focused on a thing or 2. My opinion, so don't start throwing rocks at me, okay?

     And, for the records, I WAS punished with a spanking, in SOME cases, not all. And my brother was a whole different story, because he was VERY hard headed. So, let's not try to say that everything can ALWAYS be handled by talking to a child. Some might can be handled that way, but some are going to keep pushing and need more (not a beating, but a spanking). Just sayin, you can't generalize on the subject of discipline.     

[calj737]

I intend no offense to anyone, but I'd have to strongly agree with the sentiments of the scenarios posted by Retro.

As for segregation, it was "taught" as is racism, hate, and violence. Simply because there was a time in the US that hatred affected a small portion of the population (meaning the narrow-minded who practiced it) does not discount the far better social conduct of the vast majority.

The US is not unique in their history of social problems. And racism is still quite prevalent in parts of Europe. But again, it's taught and tolerated. But that does not minimize the far poorer (in my opinion) state of affairs that plague our society. We have become extremists tending towards "over-correction" introducing policies to problems that don't equate to the punishment.

I'll take the 60s, 70s or 80s all over again. Any time!

And to JeffSTL's point, you're Dad sounds very much like the point of the post- parenting, parenting, parenting sets the stage for better citizens.

Now, to find a way to fix it!

[BeSeeingYou]

All I'm saying is nostalgia tends to exaggerate or romanticize the good aspects of the past while ignoring the bad.  I  have no interest in reliving the 50's, 60's, or 70's.  Certainly not the 80's . 

[MoMo]

All I'm saying is nostalgia tends to exaggerate or romanticize the good aspects of the past while ignoring the bad.  I  have no interest in reliving the 50's, 60's, or 70's.  Certainly not the 80's . 

The 70s existed ...Larry

[demon78]

But MoMo so did the 40-50's for me and there was a different ethos at that time a lot of it had to with WW2 and the people that lived through it, the attitude was what's the  bottom line, what works, get it done and worry about extraneous things later when the main mission was done ( a secure life/good life ) no one had time for snotty kids acting up nor did they have time for rudeness from adults it's only now that we have the leisure to contemplate combinations and permutations and the pendulum can swing too far each way.
Bill the demon.

[edwardmorris]

I'm young(ish), and happily married for 6 years now, but terrified of starting a family because of how things are done in this day and age. Growing up in the late 80s and 90s, my dad wasn't the meanest, but I did get the belt for making mistakes that were throwing me or people around me in danger. For the teen years (my worst, especially when I got my first set of wheels), he didn't quite use the belt but was tough enough to keep me in line. When I felt he was being unfair, grandpa was always there to get HIM back in line too . I'm happy with my life today, and would PROBABLY pass on reliving the 80s and 90s, but I don't think I'll ever be ready or brave enough to have kids knowing that I'll be under the government microscope instantly, and possibly get arrested for stopping my kid from playing with matches near a propane tank.

[BeSeeingYou]

probably straying off topic a bit but but another reason for not going back.

Just finished reading a book titled Command and Control by Eric Schlosser.  It's a story about the management of America's nuclear arsenal.  Part of the book deals with accidents and false alarms and it will scare the crap out of you.  The number of bombs dropped by accident, aircraft crashes, and takeoff accidents is staggering.  Some are still missing.  In one incident a bomb fell into the backyard of a family in North Carolina, luckily the bomb didn't have the core inserted and only the high explosive part of the bomb went off.  They were flying so many bombs around the country in the 50's and 60's and plane accidents were quite common.  Even missile silos had problems.  Changing a blown fuse caused a warhead reentry stage to fire and the warhead lifted off the missile and toppled over to the bottom of the silo.  Computer glitches often caused false alarms of nuclear attack at times leading to nuclear armed aircraft taking off.  One episode had National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski, being informed of a Soviet missile attack, preparing to wake President Carter. He had decided to let his wife sleep as he didn't see any point in waking her if Washington was about to be hit.  All of this during that glorious time...the 50's, 60's, and 70's.   Having dodged one nuclear Armageddon I have no interest in giving it another chance.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Retro, you grow up in the States?! 

No we did not go to school with African Americans in the 50's. We went to school with Negroes. There were no African Americans then, nor 'gays', nor.....

We didn't get 'BEATINGS' either. We got spanked. First at school then at home. As the recipient we may have thought we were getting the holy #$%* beat out of us but our feelings got hurt more than anything. It got our attention. That my friend is the intent. If you didn't listen and didn't think about making the right choices things would escalate. We were taught and talked to by our parents first then if we chose to do otherwise we were punished. No smart phones or PS3's to take from us. Sometimes isolation in a boring bedroom didn't work either. No cartoons on Saturday mornings either (which was the only time they would be on TV). We knew what the punishment would be and knew we would have to pay the price. And yes, you are first allowed the benefit of the doubt.

AND we had MUCH less crime and much better families then. Just sayin'.

My daughter who is almost 17 learned as well. As a young child she knew she would get 'spankies' if she intentionally did what she was told not to. A 1 gallon paint stirrer aka 'spanking stick' probably looked like the biggest weapon in the world. It got used infrequently. Little zingers that I dramatized. I always told her that it hurt me more as a dad to do it than it hurt her.  My intent was stated as above. There were times I would have to show the stern dad face without chuckling and laughing about things she had done. We always talked first. We had the "listen, think, choose" talk often. She should 'listen' to what adults are saying. She should 'think' about what she'd just heard. Then should then make the right "choice". She intentionally messed with her kindergarten and first grade older teachers that had little patience. I'd often chuckle about some of the things she did but I still had to be dad. When she 'graduated' to the second grade I explained that came with bigger responsibilities and also it came with a bigger 'spanking stick' then pulled out from behind my back a 5 gallon paint stirrer. You should have seen her eyes! I put in on top of the entertainment center in plain sight and it has not moved in those 10 years. It is still there as a good memory. I knew it wouldn't be touched when I put it there. She is a great kid/young lady. Wish she could tell you her thoughts on it looking back. They are positive. We've talked about it. She knows right from wrong. She has been active in athletics, made good grades and never gets into trouble. No drugs, no alcohol. can't same the same for me back then as my dad left and I didn't have the discipline as a teenager. She a job out of the blue when it wasn't required nor expected because she thought it was the right thing to do. I don't have to tell her what to do anymore nor have I for 3 years or so. I'm just a proud observer that provides tid bits of advice in this stage of her life.     

[Retro Rocket]

Retro, you grow up in the States?! 

Hey, I started this thread, The question should be,  did you grow up in Australia..?   

[BeSeeingYou]

I intend no offense to anyone, but I'd have to strongly agree with the sentiments of the scenarios posted by Retro.

As for segregation, it was "taught" as is racism, hate, and violence. Simply because there was a time in the US that hatred affected a small portion of the population (meaning the narrow-minded who practiced it) does not discount the far better social conduct of the vast majority.

The US is not unique in their history of social problems. And racism is still quite prevalent in parts of Europe. But again, it's taught and tolerated. But that does not minimize the far poorer (in my opinion) state of affairs that plague our society. We have become extremists tending towards "over-correction" introducing policies to problems that don't equate to the punishment.

I'll take the 60s, 70s or 80s all over again. Any time!

And to JeffSTL's point, you're Dad sounds very much like the point of the post- parenting, parenting, parenting sets the stage for better citizens.

Now, to find a way to fix it!

No offense taken but I would disagree with the statement about "a small portion of the population". 

red is were segregation was REQUIRED by law...green where it was not allowed.

[Markcb750]

Although I know that fundamentally a good parent is absolutely essential in a child's successful upbringing, and  that corporeal punishment can be useful in being a good parent, I also know that it is impossible for teachers, administrators and peace officers to tell good from bad parental violence, we are left with the result, non can be tolerated. 

I always believed anything the school brought to our attention about our kids, I may have changed my mind after further information came to light.

Its like speed limits,  I know You and I can travel safely at 90 but can the cops truly know how wonderful we are?

[calj737]

I do not dispute the geography where Segregation was in place. My comment about "small portion of the population" was targeted at the number of Blacks living in those states as a percentage of the population.

I make no justification for the abhorrent practice- I am squarely with you on that. But it was "an aspect" of society under evolution and doesn't fully represent the national culture. At least not, from my perspective.

It's difficult to ever disregard events or policies like that, no matter how long past they occurred. Another shining example would be the interment of the Japanese during WWII. It's a nasty precedent for current times "should" worse conditions in the Middle East escalate. It's not beyond the realm of imagination that we might once again, repeat our previous mistakes. How ever ignorant or evil they are deemed to be later in history.

[70CB750]

You dont want to know what was 1957 in my country.

[Killer Canary]

It involved violence, I'd bet.

[HondaMan]

Retro, you grow up in the States?! 

No we did not go to school with African Americans in the 50's. We went to school with Negroes. There were no African Americans then, nor 'gays', nor.....

...we went with Mexicans, Negroes, Chinamen, Japs, and Canucks!
Learned a lot from all those people(s). Sometimes we fought like schoolkids, but we never hated each other, and went to each other's houses to play on weekends. I can't even imagine that now?